Christian Perfection

[Hansen]

Perfection in Hebrews

John Wesley was not embarrassed to reveal his perfectionistic mentors. He specifically mentioned Bishop Taylor, Thomas Kempis, and William Law. He was surprised by the outcry of those who opposed his teaching. After all, he reasoned, we are clear on justification and attribute all things to the grace of God.

He prefaced his narrative on perfection by quoting Paul, “Not that we have already attained,” as if this demurer on his part would justify what was to follow. The quotation is from his sermon “The Circumcision of the Heart”:

"It is that habitual disposition of soul which, in the sacred writings, is termed' holiness; and which directly implies, the being cleansed from sin `from all filthiness both of flesh and

spirit;' and, by consequence the being endued with those virtues which were in Christ Jesus the being so `renewed in the image of our mind,' as to be `perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect."'

Wesley’s, A Plain Account of Christian Perfection, does not give serious consideration to the numerous “perfection” references in Hebrews. Had he paid closer attention to Hebrews, his teaching on Christian perfection might have taken another direction.

He quoted Matthew 5:48 in the standard perfectionistic sense, while neglecting its parallel passage in Luke, another oversight which could have altered his understanding of the NT teaching.

“Perfect,” in Matthew 5:48 and many other passages is a translation of the Greek word teleios

The meaning of teleios/perfect is often defined by the context in which it is used. Sometimes it is defined by a parallel passage. For example, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect (Mt. 5:48), in its immediate context, refers to the Christian’s behavior toward his fellow man. It is akin to the way God treats, even, his enemies. He lets the rain fall on the good and the bad, the sun shines on the just and the unjust.

The word is clearly defined by the corresponding passage in Luke 6:36,”Be ye therefore merciful, even as your father in heaven is merciful.” “Again, in the context, it is clear that “merciful” summarizes the surrounding passages about not judging, not expecting loans to be repaid, and loving one’s enemies.

Perfection exceeds the righteousness of commandment keeping. When the rich young ruler reported to Jesus that he had kept the commandments from his youth, Jesus said “If you will be perfect, sell what you have, take up your cross, and follow me. This passage thwarts attempts to link Christian perfection with commandment keeping.

In the NT, the doctrine of perfection is fully developed in the book of Hebrews. Teleios is often defined by its immediate context:

Heb 5:14 “but solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.” The word teleios, translated as “mature” in this passage, is explained to mean having ones senses trained through practice to discern good and evil.

Chapter 10 offers another definition of perfection:

1 “for the law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

2 otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?

3 but in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.”

Hebrews 10, defines perfection as having “no more consciousness of sins. The writer is here referring to the annual Day of Atonement service. He points to the inadequacy of the annual service by saying that it could not make the worshippers perfect because it did not cleanse their consciousness.

The Jewish worshipers were not really perfected by their offerings throughout the year. Their sin would be called to remembrance on the Day of Atonement. The Day of Atonement service was inadequate because it was repetitive. A perfect sacrifice would have rendered the annual service obsolete because the conscience would have been cleansed once for all. The emphasis here is on “their sins and iniquities I will remember no more.” “Consciousness of sins” is another way of saying memory of sins. The sacrifice of Christ sets the worshippers free from the memory of sin. No longer necessary to mull over our past mistakes on the Day of Atonement, or wonder if our sins have really been forgiven. .

“For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified (vs. 14) means that the sanctified, that is those participating in the services, will never again face their sins, as the Jews did every year on the Day of Atonement.”

Hebrews 11: 39, 40 offers yet another definition of perfection: “Yet all these, though they were commended for their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better so that they would not, apart from us, be made perfect.”

In this passage perfection means “to receive what was promised.” They had not received what was promised; therefore, they could not be made perfect.

Since becoming perfect is dependent upon receiving the promises, an understanding of the promises is required. To receive the promises is to be made perfect. To not receive the promises is to be or remain imperfect.

Fortunately, the promises are clearly explained in the immediate context. The promises are a reference to the covenant that God made with Abraham:

9 by faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;

10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is god.

13 all these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

14 for those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.

15 and indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.

16 but as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. therefore god is not ashamed to be called their god; for he has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews defines perfection in three distinct ways. Chapter 5 defines it as having ones senses exercised to discern good from evil. Chapter 10 defines it as not having to face forgiven sin ever again. Chapter 11 defines perfection as realizing the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises.

http://gbgm-umc.org/UMhistory/Wesley/perfect.html

[Gibs]

It not only is possible but is expected and is a must.

Christ in you and you too can be victorious.

All must be overcomers to be in that glorious heavenly kingdom.

Amen!

[BobRyan]

In Rev 15:8 the heavenly sanctuary service where Christ intercedes between God and man - ends so that the Rev 16 7 last plagues can be poured out.

Whatever your view of perfection prior to that time - one thing is very clear - it is absolute perfection from that point on.

in Christ,

Bob

[12tribes]

We can only be perfect by being given Christ's righteousness.

There are different stages of perfection

Perfect in surrender (justification)

Perfect in character (sanctification)

Perfect in nature (glorification)

[Gerr]

In Rev 15:8 the heavenly sanctuary service where Christ intercedes between God and man - ends so that the Rev 16 7 last plagues can be poured out.

Whatever your view of perfection prior to that time - one thing is very clear - it is absolute perfection from that point on.

in Christ,

Bob

So, you think that by that time, all the saints will no longer get sick and will no longer forget?

[ClubV12]

I was just reading Acts of the Apostles (again) today. Talking about the latter rain and the day of Pentecost in the early church. Though the Saints received the Holy Spirit in great measure, they were not immune to temptation. That did not perfect their characters. Each remained at the level of growth that had achieved to date and still had to draw from within themselves that determination to grow more. To continue to put away sin as it was revealed in their life by the Spirit. Perfection is a worthy but illusive goal, it is a never ending trek toward sanctification. The closer we get, the more we see how far from the goal we are.

[Gibs]

Why do so many want to fight against what is so obvious when He came and made a way for you and all to do what He expects.

He wouldn't have made these statements if it couldn't have been possible, but it is possible and must be done and is expected. please read,

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

It is His indwelling, the Divine Nature, then that elusive victory can be yours, oh yes it will take all that you are given over fully, nothing held back I grant you but it has become our will and love, same as His and then we are free men and women, freed from that bondage that has had us bound and that freedom is Divine.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Why do so many want to fight against what is so obvious when He came and made a way for you and all to do what He expects.

Who is fighting against overcoming? What I am against is the idea that somehow in this rotten flesh, you can achieve ultimate perfection! As long as we are in this flesh, it will be sinful. That's why we need the perfection of Jesus. As I have said before, if you think you can achieve perfection in the flesh, you either do not understand the perfection that the law requires or the perfection of God.

NIV84 | ‎Tt 3:4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, ‎5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Quote:

He wouldn't have made these statements if it couldn't have been possible, but it is possible and must be done and is expected. please read,

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

It is His indwelling, the Divine Nature, then that elusive victory can be yours, oh yes it will take all that you are given over fully, nothing held back I grant you but it has become our will and love, same as His and then we are free men and women, freed from that bondage that has had us bound and that freedom is Divine.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

If you mean by overcoming we are to cease all willful/intentional transgressions, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But if you mean even inadvertent, unintentional sins, then I believe you are preaching error, thus discouraging

people. You have already admitted in another thread that you forget and that you do get sick. Those are sins per EGW. So there goes absolute perfection out the window!

[Gerr]

PS

Could you please cite one believing sinner who has ever achieved what you are asking for? And another thing, if I don't reach the perfection that you are expecting believers to achieve, am I toast?

[Woody]

You may be 'toast' Gerry - but I've never been burnt by the good taste of your views of late. Keep up the good work.

[ClubV12]

According to Daniel 12:7 we know precisely when "perfection" of God's people will be achieved.

"....when the power of the Holy people is broken." We STILL think we can do this, alone, we only need the Lord to "some degree". We overbalance in favor of our own "will" or "grace". The middle of the road is that narrow white stripe, it's hard to stay exactly on that narrow part. We steer, but Christ is the power steering we need. Without that, we wander from one side of the road to the other.

Sometimes to much on the law, other times to much on grace, back and forth we go....

[Gerr]

The perfection that is within the reach of every believer is to have a "perfect heart" in our relationship with God, i.e. total loyalty, complete integrity. See 2 Ki 20:3, 1 Chr 12:38, 2 Chr 19:9, 2 Chr 25:2, Ps 101:2, Isa 38:3 in the KJV. It has nothing to do with flawless performance, but it has everything to do with total loyalty and complete integrity with what one does.

[Gibs]

Jesus took our sinful flesh and overcame from where we must and he did it because He obeyed the Fathers' Spirit that was in Him.

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

He gives us the same power, Christ in you is the Father in you as it was the Father that was in the man Jesus Christ.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God (the Father ) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

We can be overcomers as He expects us to in our present sphere as He was and that is what is expected and must be done by each of us. Christ in you does the work but we must will to follow His Spirit within as He did.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[joeb]

Gerry,

What follows is a quote from Christ's Object Lessons page 332. I've quoted most of the page so you can see the promises within their context.

Quote:

Be ambitious, for the Master’s glory, to cultivate every grace of character. In every phase of your character building you are to please God. This you may do; for Enoch pleased Him though living in a degenerate age. And there are Enochs in this our day.

Stand like Daniel, that faithful statesman, a man whom no temptation could corrupt. Do not disappoint Him who so loved you that He gave His own life to cancel your sins. He says, “Without Me ye can do nothing.” John 15:5. Remember this. If you have made mistakes, you certainly gain a victory if you see these mistakes and regard them as beacons of warning. Thus you turn defeat into victory, disappointing the enemy and honoring your Redeemer.

A character formed according to the divine likeness is the only treasure that we can take from this world to the next. Those who are under the instruction of Christ in this world will take every divine attainment with them to the heavenly mansions. And in heaven we are continually to improve. How important, then, is the development of character in this life.

The heavenly intelligences will work with the human agent who seeks with determined faith that perfection of character which will reach out to perfection in action. To everyone engaged in this work Christ says, I am at your right hand to help you.

As the will of man co-operates with the will of God, it becomes omnipotent. Whatever is to be done at His command may be accomplished in His strength. All His biddings are enablings.

Notice, Gerry, that as the will of man co-operates with the will of God that it becomes omnipotent. All God's biddings are enablings.

I, for one, will never advance the position that sin is more powerful than God. I'm not claiming perfection, but will never say God cannot accomplish that in me which I am unable to do for myself. What I have not yet seen in reality, I can see by faith.

God is omnipotent in all things, not just in some things. He has the power to overcome sin in our lives, if we truly want it.

Why don't we see perfection of character? Because of unbelief. What we don't believe in, nor consequently set as our goal, we cannot reach.

[Gail]

@ Joeb- Nice!

What, then, should be our focus?

[Gibs]

Joeb,

Amen Bro.,

And my answer to Gail, of our focus, death of self to be quickened in a new life in him and our will now His will.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[John317]

If you mean by overcoming we are to cease all willful/intentional transgressions, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But if you mean even inadvertent, unintentional sins, then I believe you are preaching error, thus discouraging

people.

Completely agree.

Until the close of human probation, the Holy Spirit will continue to convict us of sins and imperfections in our lives that we must overcome. There will be no stopping point until Christ returns. Until then we will never reach a point where we can say, "I've arrived. I'm no longer sinning."

But notice this is not referring to willful/intentional/deliberate practice of sin.

When the sealing angel comes to people who are still practicing known sins, the angel will leave them behind and go on to others.

[Gail]

One of the most exciting benefits of coming to the Redeemer is not only in what He has done for us at the cross, but what is possible through Him currently.

He is a living God, isn't He? AND a present help in all our trouble!

[Gail]

Until the close of human probation, the Holy Spirit will continue to convict us of sins and imperfections in our lives that we must overcome. There will be no stopping point until Christ returns. Until then we will never reach a point where we can say, "I've arrived. I'm no longer sinning."

But notice this is not referring to willful/intentional/deliberate practice of sin.

We are promised help and power for even the willing as well as the doing. For some that is the hardest part! How can one "turn away" when one honestly doesn't want to?

[John317]

[John317]

We are promised help and power for even the willing as well as the doing. For some that is the hardest part! How can one "turn away" when one honestly doesn't want to?

We won't turn away unless we hate sin. Only Christ can help us to hate sin. Otherwise we will love sin, and as long as we love sin, we will commit it and even practice it.

How do we come to the point where we hate sin? When we really love Christ and see what sin has done to Him and is still doing to Him.

If we knew every time we sinned, someone we loved would have to die, wouldn't we sin a lot less than we do?

Suppose our sin would mean the person we love most in the world would die? Wouldn't we take sin a lot more seriously than most people take it now?

If we truly want to hate sin and see sin as Christ sees it, Christ will help us to do it. We can't possibly do it without Him.

[Woody]

I continue to sin - deliberately.

I don't sin by accident. I fall into it. I am sucked in. I enjoy sinning or I wouldn't sin.

Praise God that I serve a forgiving God. ANd when I sin - HE forgives.

[Gail]

We won't turn away unless we hate sin. Only Christ can help us to hate sin. Otherwise we will love sin, and as long as we love sin, we will commit it and even practice it.

This is a miracle that Jesus does- those who have experienced victory, no matter how small, can relate.

Here is a question: How should we treat those who haven't yet received answer to this prayer (that of the hatred for the sin)? How can we encourage and help?

[Gail]

I continue to sin - deliberately.

I don't sin by accident. I fall into it. I am sucked in. I enjoy sinning or I wouldn't sin.

Praise God that I serve a forgiving God. ANd when I sin - HE forgives.

Being sucked into it is perhaps easier to remedy than loving it hanging on to it, but Jesus is still the answer.

Strange, wonderful things happen when we behold Christ... :)

[Woody]

Quote:

Here is a question: How should we treat those who haven't yet received answer to this prayer (that of the hatred for the sin)? How can we encourage and help?

Good Question Gail. WE all fall in this classification. For we all sin. So in that sense there are areas where we have not had an answer to that prayer.