Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

January 30, 2012

#68 - TORTURING DOUBTS AND EXULTANT FAITH – JAMES CORAM

“After long years of torturing doubts, God had mercy on me and turned my darkness into light, my despair into joy and my misery into exultation. He brought me into touch with His revelation, just as He had written it, apart from most of the mistranslations of well-meaning men, who were bound by creeds and tradition.

I found out that sin and suffering are confined to the eons or ages, as ‘forever’ and ‘everlasting’ should be translated. There will indeed be an awful judgment, but it will not merely punish, but set right all wrongs.

Not only will God bring all of earth’s inhabitants back into the sunlight of His love, but, through the blood of Christ’s cross, He will reconcile all to Him, whether those on the earth, or those in the heavens (Col. 1:20). The present enmity toward God on the part of terrestrial and celestial creatures will, in due time, be used as a background to display His love. That is why I no longer have torturing doubts, but revel in exultant faith.”

January 30, 2012

“Not you choose Me, but I choose you…” John 15:16

“Too often is salvation made a matter of the sinner's choice. This sadly mars the full and clear apprehension of God's love which it is intended to reveal. All active effort in redemption is the outflow of divine love, and is entirely on God's side. All the sinner's activity is a hindrance, He would choose anyone but God. His part is a passive or a negative one.

This basic truth is much more forcibly revealed later on in connection with the call of the nations. We were chosen by God in Christ before the disruption. Sin itself was subsequent to His choice of us. Hence, sin, either past or present, cannot affect God's purpose for us, or our acceptance of His grace. He chooses, He calls, He glorifies. He does not give man his choice or a chance. He has the wisdom and the power to impel men to fall into line with His purpose no matter what their natural inclination may be. All human experience confirms the divine declaration that He it is Who is operating in us to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight (Phil. 213). Man can carry out his own will only so far as it accords with the purpose of God. When men rage against God, He uses their wrath as far as it is useful to His plans. The remainder of their wrath He restrains.” -Snippet from the Concordant Commentary (http://concordant.org/expohtml/ConcordantCommentary/CC04_John.htm)

Romans 3:11; 10:20; Jn. 6:65.

January 30, 2012

#69 - THE GLORY OF THE HAPPY GOD – ARTHUR CHARLES LAMB

“We read in 1Tim. 1:11 that Paul was entrusted with the evangel of the glory of the happy God. We read in 1Tim. 2:4 that God wills that all mankind be saved and come into a knowledge of the truth, and that Christ Jesus gave Himself a correspondent ransom for all (2:6).

Our God is a happy God. In Ephesians 1:10,11 we learn of the secret of God’s will, and this accords with His delight. It gives God joy and happiness and delight to purpose and bring about ‘an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ.’

Such an evangel is certainly for the laud of His glory.”

January 30, 2012

Forced Subjugation?

Does the subjection of all under Christ’s feet involve forced submission? 1 Cor. 15:20-28. Not at all; first, we see that Christ will subject Himself to His Father. The same word is used because the same action is described; willing and worshipful submission. This is underscored in Phil. 2:9-11, where all bow in the name of Jesus, a name meaning “God saves”. If we read Phil. 3:21, we see the use of the Greek word “kata” (“in accord with/ according to”); see Matt. 9:29 for another example. We are told that the operation which enables Christ to subject all to Himself is in accord with the transfiguration of the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory. Nothing could be farther from forced subjugation than this! Paul reveals a wondrous truth in Romans 5:19, and it relates to all mankind: “For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.” Reconciliation is a willing and mutual agreement; one-sided conciliation or forced submission doesn’t correspond with God’s plan as described in Colossians 1:15-20.

“Yahweh, our Elohim, You are the Setter of welfare on the hearthstones for us, for, moreover, all our doings You do contrive for us.” Is. 26:12.

January 31, 2012

All in all

God, our Heavenly Father, will one day be All in all. 1 Cor. 15:28. In order to understand this verse, we first must define the “all”. In verse 22 we read that, just as all are dying in Adam, thus also [in the same way], all shall be vivified in Christ. The contrast is between mortality and immortality, for, as we read in verse 26, the last enemy, death, is being abolished. Verses 25 and 27 tell us that Christ must reign until all His enemies are under His feet. So, all those who were subject to death will one day be freed from the condemnation of Adam by the justification of Christ -Ro. 5:18. We also read of the nullificaion of all sovereignty and all authority and all power. 1 Cor. 15:24. This must include the heavens as we also find in Phil. 2:10 and Col. 1:15-20 and 2:15. So the “all” in “All in all” means just that; God will gloriously triumph over all sin and death, restoring peace and securing it in perpetuity. John 1:29b: "Lo! the Lamb of God Which is taking away the sin of the world!" (Greek kosmou, meaning 'the world, the orderly universe' in the sense of the sum total of all that is.)

January 31, 2012

You done yet dialoguewithus and ruggertutt? You guys sound like a broken record, repeating the same tautological noise.

I'm still waiting for you to cite one scripture that proves that every human being will be saved. So far, you have provided nothing of the sort. Just scriptures you have distorted to suit your erroneous interpretations.

Your pick-and-choose stunts have not addressed the countless verses that say the wicked will turn to ashes, and be as though they had not been. Because you are incapable of reconciling and harmonizing all these passages, you choose to discard them and explain them away, and then pick only those verses that suit your preconceived notions.

I hate to say it to you two, but I fear the both of you will be extremely disappointed in the final day of judgment. I pray that it won't be too late for you to come to the realization that in order to enter Glory, it requires bearing a cross. That the only path to heaven is to repent, be converted, and keep God's commandments.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." (Revelation 22:11,12)

If the filthy "remain" filthy still, your doctrine must force you to conclude that heaven will be filled with a bunch of "filthy people".

A notion too preposterous, ludicrous, and shameful to be entertained.

January 31, 2012

I'm still waiting for you to cite one scripture that proves that every human being will be saved.

ONE SCRIPTURE THAT PROVES THAT EVERY HUMAN WILL BE SAVED

“God will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)

It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.

Because God says

"My counsel shall stand.

I will do all my pleasure (the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)

Yea I have spoken it.

I will also bring it to pass.

I have purposed it.

I will also do it."

Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?

He does whatever he pleases.

(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants

What does He want?

THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND (1Tim. 2:4 says so)

Why will it happen?

Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

January 31, 2012

#70 - THE CONCEPT OF CIRCULARITY – JACK E. JACOBSEN

“Coming to the close of the last age, we find the earth filled with God’s righteousness. All know Him from the least to the greatest. The earth is filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. Through His own blood, Christ has reconciled all back to God. We see every tongue confessing in love and adoration Christ as Lord. This can only be done in obedience and love as it is a unanimous Praise of the Universe to the glory of God the Father (Colossians 1:20).

It is little wonder that all gladly proclaim redemption’s story. God now rises in everyone, bringing the consummation of God’s plan of the ages – a complete circle, from God in Himself to GOD ALL IN ALL.”

January 31, 2012

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

I'm still waiting for you to cite one scripture that proves that every human being will be saved.

ONE SCRIPTURE THAT PROVES THAT EVERY HUMAN WILL BE SAVED

“God will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)

It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Wrong. What God "wills", and what men accept may very well be two different things. Matthew 20:16 emphatically states, "for many be called, but few chosen". PERIOD.

Therefore, the translation "Who DESIRES all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4, NKJV) is an acceptable one.

The Scriptures CONTRADICT your doctrine!

Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

It's no wonder most people are not even bothering refuting you two in this thread! Your arguments are so weak, they are not even worth addressing!

January 31, 2012

“God will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)

Sooner or later God always gets what He wants.

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

January 31, 2012

#71 - GOD’S PERFECT PLAN

“Many attempts have been made to prove that eons are eternal. The Greek word aion and the Hebrew olam, both meaning age or eon, have been translated by terms meaning endlessness. This is a grave error, for the divine Author, Himself has not used them in this way. He has indicated that they were not eternal in the past by informing us that they had a beginning (1Cor. 2:7), and, again, that they cannot possibly be everlasting in the future, for they are to end (Heb. 9:26; 1Cor. 10:11).

God’s plan for creation is confined to time. It is not an ‘eternal’ purpose’ but a ‘purpose of the eons’ (Eph. 3:11). Beyond the ages there will be naught but bliss and perfection for every member of creation (Rom. 8:19-22). Sin and evil and death will then be past; all will be saved and reconciled, and God shall be All, not in a few, but in all (1Cor. 15:28).”

January 31, 2012

Do You Know the Secret?

Ephesians 1:3-10: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ, according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight, in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will, for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved: in Whom we are having the deliverance through His blood, the forgiveness of offenses in accord with the riches of His grace, which He lavishes on us; in all wisdom and prudence making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him) to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ - both that in the heavens and that on the earth”

The secret of God’s will is to head up all in Christ in the complement of time. Paul explains this secret in several ways. See Phil. 2:9-11 and Col. 1:15-20. There’s a detailed description of Christ’s headship over all in 1 Cor. 15:20-28. And yet, this is not God’s final goal; 1 Cor. 15:28 mentions that once all is subjected to Christ, then He will subject Himself to His Father, so that God might be All in all. This brings the saving work of Christ to completion; the eons of sin and death finalize in glorious triump for the God of Love. Only then does “eternity” begin, and we can rest in the promise that “…He will make a finish; distress is not rising a second time.” Nahum 1:9.

January 31, 2012

Romans 8: 28 Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose 29 that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. 30 Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also.

These verses apply to the Body of Christ, Lysimachus. I'm sorry that you're not convinced by the verses we've provided. Nevertheless, God will accomplish His will, regardless of whether we accept none of it, some of it, or all of it. He's infinite and omnipotent. There can be no doubt tat He will save all. Ro. 11:32; 5:18, 19. We are justified gratuitously in His grace; we have no part in securing our salvation, Lysimachus. God bless!

January 31, 2012

It's no wonder most people are not even bothering refuting you two in this thread! Your arguments are so weak, they are not even worth addressing!

Yeah, it's not like you're going to change their minds or anything. This is what they WANT to believe. And I sure don't see a stampede of people coming over to their side either.

In their defense, I would say at least they are not all over the whole forum posting this nonsense, like some people do. (can you say Dr. _ich?)

They keep it right here on this thread.

January 31, 2012

Thanks for your comment, RLH. Personally, it's nonsense to me that God created most of mankind to be annihilated. And it's nonsense that He wants all to be saved, and "He shall be satisfied" with Christ's saving work, yet won't save all.

"Let him who will, take the water of life gratuitously."

Rev. 22:17. Please notice that those who enjoy God’s blessings and eonian life in the oncoming eons (the eons of the eons), will enjoy those blessings GRATUITOUSLY. It's God's work to save and I believe He will save all, as numerous texts clearly indicate. The loss, condemnation, judgment, fire, suffering, etc, are not pointless; humans punish offenders, in part, to reform them. God certainly accomplishes more than simply making the sinner suffer for rejecting salvation, and no one can accept salvation unless God so grant it to be. Whether there's a stampede of people coming over to our side, I don't know. I would be pleasantly surprised, because most denominational believers never advance beyond their respective "creeds".

January 31, 2012

From where I stand, it looks like your arguments have been soundly refuted, by Lysimachus alone. Not to mention the ones who refuted it before he got here.

I could be wrong.

January 31, 2012

Let God be true, and every man a liar...

Our ALL powerful God stumbles again, and it is Satan who emerges victorious !! Despite all our religious, pious platitudes, SUCH IS THE CASE if Jesus Christ came only "to OFFER salvation to those who would receive it." Satan DID NOT come to "Offer damnation", but rather, men are brought into this world as his slaves, WITHOUT CHOICE !!! According to the creeds of orthodox Christendom, the "VICTORY" of Christ is thousands. The "VICTORY" of Satan is tens of thousands !! If this is in fact true, than the scripture SHOULD NOT read, "Oh Death, where is your sting," but rather, "Oh Christ, where is YOUR VICTORY ???"

http://www.gtft.org/Library/jenke/aejenke.htm

January 31, 2012

#72 - THE CROSS AND THE AGES TO COME – G. CAMPBELL MORGAN

“We cannot conceive of a Creator Who knows the end from the beginning, One Who is Love, Who has infinite wisdom, and infinite power, giving to any being life, life which is never to end, but to continue in suffering to all eternity. The Bible does not teach it anywhere in the original languages. God’s punishments are remedial and take place within the span of the ages. Punishment will last no longer than is necessary to bring man to hate his sin and be reconciled to his Saviour.”

January 31, 2012

From where I stand, it looks like your arguments have been soundly refuted, by Lysimachus alone. Not to mention the ones who refuted it before he got here.

I could be wrong.

Did you guys ever read

Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation):

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

By Gary Amirault?

It's the testimony/exposition of why Gary changed from believing that the Bible teaches annihilation to believing that it teaches universal salvation.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

January 31, 2012

Thanks for your comment, RLH. Personally, it's nonsense to me that God created most of mankind to be annihilated. And it's nonsense that He wants all to be saved, and "He shall be satisfied" with Christ's saving work, yet won't save all.
"Let him who will, take the water of life gratuitously."

Rev. 22:17. Please notice that those who enjoy God’s blessings and eonian life in the oncoming eons (the eons of the eons), will enjoy those blessings GRATUITOUSLY. It's God's work to save and I believe He will save all, as numerous texts clearly indicate. The loss, condemnation, judgment, fire, suffering, etc, are not pointless; humans punish offenders, in part, to reform them. God certainly accomplishes more than simply making the sinner suffer for rejecting salvation, and no one can accept salvation unless God so grant it to be. Whether there's a stampede of people coming over to our side, I don't know. I would be pleasantly surprised, because most denominational believers never advance beyond their respective "creeds".

I agree God didn't create us to annihilate us. Most will choose that fate. Jesus died for each and everyone of us. But we need to choose him as our Lord and Savior. And if all are to be saved as you seem to think, than why are there two resurrections? One for those that will live with him forever and than one at the end of the thousand years for those that will be eternally lost?

January 31, 2012

Romans 9 is one of many texts that explain why there are two classes, as is also brought out in 1 Tim. 4:9-11. God grants faith to the elect now, and to the vessels of indignation later. No one can come to Christ unless the Father draw him, and whoever comes to Him will by no means be cast out. It's not our place to complain about how God chose to effect the salvation of all. Ro. 9:20.

January 31, 2012

Quote:

I agree God didn't create us to annihilate us. Most will choose that fate.

Did you guys ever read

Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation):

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

By Gary Amirault?

It's the testimony/exposition of why Gary changed from believing that the Bible teaches annihilation to believing that it teaches universal salvation.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

January 31, 2012

The universe is God's; He created and sustains it. He is responsible for all that happens and doesn't happen in the universe. He's never been surprised, nor will He be in the future. He knows the end from the beginning, because "free will" is mythical; free-will events would be unpredictable. Whatever befalls the universe is according to God's plan; otherwise He has lost control. Genesis 50:20; Ro. 8:20. What is not only against revelation but against righteousness is to condemn all mankind automatically, to sin and mortality, through no fault of our own, in Adam, and then save from "eternal death" only those who "seek God", although we are told that none of us seek Him. Therefore, if and when we seek Him, it is HIS WORK in us. So if any don't exercise faith in Him during this life, including the millions who never even heard of Christ's sacrifice, it is because God does not grant that person faith during this life. Salvation is of God, PERIOD. And death will be abolished for all mankind. 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

January 31, 2012

Pk has it right...

January 31, 2012

Did you guys ever read
Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation):

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

By Gary Amirault?

No, I never did read that.

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