The 10 virgins

[BibleOnly]

Mat 25:1 ¶ Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.

Mat 25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I've been accused of confusing the issue by using too much scripture, so I'll stick to this chapter. I am happy to use the Bible to back up every statement I make, if asked.

The bridegroom is Christ. The 10 virgins are Christians, but they are NOT the bride. The lamp is the Word of God and the oil is the Holy Spirit. These things are self evident from the Bible.

If the bride is not the church, then who is it ? It's Israel.

What does it mean to have the lamp and not oil ? It means to have the Word of God and not the Holy Spirit. So, two things come out of this:

1 - Jesus is coming back to restore Israel

2 - It's important to know that you have the Holy Spirit and not just the Word. How does someone know if they have the Holy Spirit ?

[12tribes]

Revelation 21:9-10

(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

[12tribes]

Quote:

The marriage represents the reception by Christ of his kingdom. The holy city, the New Jerusalem, which is the capital and representative of the kingdom, is called “the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” Said the angel to John, “Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” “He carried me away in the spirit,” says the prophet, “and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God.” [Revelation 21:9, 10.] Clearly, then, the bride represents the holy city, and the virgins that go out to meet the bridegroom are a symbol of the church. In the Revelation the people of God are said to be the guests at the marriage supper. [Revelation 19:9.] If guests, they cannot be represented also as the bride. Christ, as stated by the prophet Daniel, will receive from the Ancient of days in Heaven, “dominion, and glory, and a kingdom,” he will receive the New Jerusalem, the capital of his kingdom, “prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” [Daniel 7:14; Revelation 21:2.] Having received the kingdom, he will come in his glory, as King of kings, and Lord of lords, for the redemption of his people, who are to “sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,” at his table in his kingdom, [Matthew 8:11; Luke 22:30.] to partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb. {GC88 426.2}

[BibleOnly]

Revelation 21:9-10

(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Yes, populated by whom ?

Or is He marrying a building ?

[phkrause]

Yes, populated by whom ?

Or is He marrying a building ?

Not only Jews, but people from all the earth!

[BibleOnly]

Yes, after the restoration of Israel, the whole earth is allowed to come in, which brings God's plan to an all inclusive conclusion.

[miz3]

Mat 25:1 ¶ Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.

Mat 25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I've been accused of confusing the issue by using too much scripture, so I'll stick to this chapter. I am happy to use the Bible to back up every statement I make, if asked.

The bridegroom is Christ. The 10 virgins are Christians, but they are NOT the bride. The lamp is the Word of God and the oil is the Holy Spirit. These things are self evident from the Bible.

If the bride is not the church, then who is it ? It's Israel.

What does it mean to have the lamp and not oil ? It means to have the Word of God and not the Holy Spirit. So, two things come out of this:

1 - Jesus is coming back to restore Israel

2 - It's important to know that you have the Holy Spirit and not just the Word. How does someone know if they have the Holy Spirit ?

1. This passage does not tell us who the Bride is. You are assuming things not in evidence in this passage. The passage does not say that Israel is the Bride.

2. This passage also does not tell us that Israel will be restored. Again, you are assuming things not in evidence.

3. You are missing the point of this parable. Think about it again, without any preconceived ideas such as "the restoration of Israel in the future".

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Mat 25:1 ¶ Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.

Mat 25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I've been accused of confusing the issue by using too much scripture, so I'll stick to this chapter. I am happy to use the Bible to back up every statement I make, if asked.

The bridegroom is Christ. The 10 virgins are Christians, but they are NOT the bride. The lamp is the Word of God and the oil is the Holy Spirit. These things are self evident from the Bible.

If the bride is not the church, then who is it ? It's Israel.

What does it mean to have the lamp and not oil ? It means to have the Word of God and not the Holy Spirit. So, two things come out of this:

1 - Jesus is coming back to restore Israel

2 - It's important to know that you have the Holy Spirit and not just the Word. How does someone know if they have the Holy Spirit ?

1. This passage does not tell us who the Bride is. You are assuming things not in evidence in this passage. The passage does not say that Israel is the Bride.

2. This passage also does not tell us that Israel will be restored. Again, you are assuming things not in evidence.

3. You are missing the point of this parable. Think about it again, without any preconceived ideas such as "the restoration of Israel in the future".

Like I said, when I use the whole Bible to support my views, I get criticised for it. You're right, all this tells us is that the bride is not the church, we are the virgins. So, who is the bride, if not Israel ?

Yes, the main point of THIS parable is to make sure you have the Holy Spirit as well as the Word and that you're ready for Christ to come. Which is why I also asked, how does someone who has the Word, know they also have the Spirit ?

[miz3]

Like I said, when I use the whole Bible to support my views, I get criticised for it. You're right, all this tells us is that the bride is not the church, we are the virgins. So, who is the bride, if not Israel ?

Yes, the main point of THIS parable is to make sure you have the Holy Spirit as well as the Word and that you're ready for Christ to come. Which is why I also asked, how does someone who has the Word, know they also have the Spirit ?

This passage does not tell us who the Bride is so if you use only this passage then you cannot ever know who the Bride is. You have to go elsewhere in the Bible to find out who the Bride of Jesus Christ is.

Second, you are correct that the parable is telling us that in order to have Light we must have the Holy Spirit and we need the Holy Spirit in order to know God/Jesus Christ.

In addition the Parable is telling us the importance of knowing God/Jesus Christ because at the end of the Parable the foolish virgins don't get in for one reason and one reason only. That reason is "they do not know God/Jesus Christ". That is why the Bridegroom says, "I don't know you".

The foolish virgins were not shut out because they were "late", but they were shut out because they did not know God/Jesus Christ.

Third it is not important to know who the Bride is when discussing this parable because the Bride has nothing to do with the point of the Parable. The Bride of God/Jesus Christ is important in other Bible passages but in this particular passage/Parable the Bride is not relevant.

Notice both wise and foolish receive light from the Holy Spirit. However the wise asked for more and received it, while the foolish did not ask for more of the Holy Spirit and eventually the Holy Spirit was no longer there.

To have the Holy Spirit we need to ask for it. The Bible tells us that when we ask for it God will give it to us. We must believe that God has done what He promised.

"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him."

James 1:5.

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Matthew 3:11.

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Luke 11:11-13.

Straight from the Bible that God will give us the Holy Spirit if we ask (with pure motives).

"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 14:15-21.

Try also reading 1Corinthians 2:6-16.

[BibleOnly]

All these verses are correct, if not specific. Acts 8 is also not specific, but at least tells us that being baptised believer is not enough. Acts 2, 10 and 19 tell is that when someone recieves the Spirit, they speak in tongues.

[ClubV12]

What a sad mistake and a serious delusion relying on the gibberish of tongues as a sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit....

[Q.E.D.]

Which is why I also asked, how does someone who has the Word, know they also have the Spirit ?

The same way that you know that you have the Word of God.

"17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Rom 10:17)

"38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."(Acts 2:38)

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."(Gal 5:22-23)

"1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."(Heb 11:1)

To sum it up:

By faith you believe that the Word of God is the Word of God.

By faith you believe you have the Holy Spirit because you were baptized into Christ by immersion and the Word of God tells you that you received the Holy Ghost when you were baptized.

By faith you experience the fruits of the spirit and know the love of God for you.

Do you have the fruits of the Holy Spirit?

Q.E.D.

[BibleOnly]

What a sad mistake and a serious delusion relying on the gibberish of tongues as a sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit....

Interesting that people keep saying that, but can't explain away the scriptures that prove it.... :-)

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Which is why I also asked, how does someone who has the Word, know they also have the Spirit ?

The same way that you know that you have the Word of God.

"17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Rom 10:17)

"38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."(Acts 2:38)

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."(Gal 5:22-23)

"1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."(Heb 11:1)

To sum it up:

By faith you believe that the Word of God is the Word of God.

By faith you believe you have the Holy Spirit because you were baptized into Christ by immersion and the Word of God tells you that you received the Holy Ghost when you were baptized.

By faith you experience the fruits of the spirit and know the love of God for you.

Do you have the fruits of the Holy Spirit?

Q.E.D.

Of course I seek to have the fruits of the Spirit. I also know atheists with plenty of love, joy and peace. Fruits are somethign we must have, but do not have exclusive ownership of. They are also not a test in the sense of Acts 8. You can't say 'I have the fruits and not the gifts' any more than you can say 'I have faith but not works'

[Q.E.D.]

All these verses are correct, if not specific. Acts 8 is also not specific, but at least tells us that being baptised believer is not enough. Acts 2, 10 and 19 tell is that when someone recieves the Spirit, they speak in tongues.

Sorry but Acts 2, 10 and 19 do not "tell us that when someone receives the Spirit they speak in tongues".

[BibleOnly]

Alone, they only tell us that in specific instances, everyone spoke in tongues. Acts 8 and 19 both indicate that evidence is required to show that a baptised believer has the Spirit. These verses then consolidate the evidence from 'sometimes' to 'always' that this happens. Lots of NT verses refer back to this, and allude to why we all speak in tongues. Peter regarded Acts 2 as 'the beginning', so he thought that what happened there was the start of something new.

[Q.E.D.]

Of course I seek to have the fruits of the Spirit. I also know atheists with plenty of love, joy and peace. Fruits are somethign we must have, but do not have exclusive ownership of. They are also not a test in the sense of Acts 8. You can't say 'I have the fruits and not the gifts' any more than you can say 'I have faith but not works'

BibleOnly "Of course I seek to have the fruits of the Spirit."

Q.E.D. ~~ You have them. God gives them to you daily as you submit your will to His.

BibleOnly "I also know atheists with plenty of love, joy and peace."

Q.E.D. ~~ I am sure that's very nice that you know athiests that have those attributes but they do not have the "Peace of God that passeth all understanding.

"7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."(Phil 4:7)

BibleOnly "Fruits are somethign we must have, but do not have exclusive ownership of."

Q.E.D.~~ Only the children of God have the fruits of the Spirit.

BibleOnly "You can't say 'I have the fruits and not the gifts' any more than you can say 'I have faith but not works'"

Q.E.D. ~~ Who on earth would say that?

[BibleOnly]

"I am sure that's very nice that you know athiests that have those attributes but they do not have the "Peace of God that passeth all understanding."

This is a word game. I don't dispute it's true, but how do you tell if someone has this ? It doesn't change that the fruits are attributes that all humans can have, and are therefore not proof of the Spirit, they are just things we MUST have, and people who are not Christians can choose not to have them.

"Who on earth would say that?"

Anyone who claims that not all Christians speak in tongues.

[Q.E.D.]

Alone, they only tell us that in specific instances, everyone spoke in tongues. Acts 8 and 19 both indicate that evidence is required to show that a baptised believer has the Spirit. These verses then consolidate the evidence from 'sometimes' to 'always' that this happens. Lots of NT verses refer back to this, and allude to why we all speak in tongues. Peter regarded Acts 2 as 'the beginning', so he thought that what happened there was the start of something new.

BibleOnly "Acts 8 and 19 both indicate that evidence is required to show that a believer has the Spirit."

Q.E.D. "Required"? Prove it with Book, Chapter and Verse please.

BibleOnly "Lots of NT verses refer back to this, and allude to why we all speak in tongues."

Q.E.D. I beg to differ. We all DO NOT speak in tongues.

BibleOnly "Peter regarded Acts 2 as 'the beginning', so he thought that what happened there was the start of something new."

Q.E.D. Please let us know what Peter thought. Book, Chapter and Verse please.

Yours in Christ, Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

"I am sure that's very nice that you know athiests that have those attributes but they do not have the "Peace of God that passeth all understanding."

This is a word game. I don't dispute it's true, but how do you tell if someone has this ? It doesn't change that the fruits are attributes that all humans can have, and are therefore not proof of the Spirit, they are just things we MUST have, and people who are not Christians can choose not to have them.

"Who on earth would say that?"

Anyone who claims that not all Christians speak in tongues.

BibleOnly "This is a word game. I don't dispute it's true, but how do you tell if someone has this?"

Q.E.D. "has this"? If you mean the "fruits of the Spirit" I don't recall any Bible verse that requires anyone to determine if someone else has the gifts of the Spirit. Perhaps you, BibleOnly, can provide the Book, Chapter and Verse that requires it.

To know me is to love me. . . Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

BibleOnly "You can't say 'I have the fruits and not the gifts' any more than you can say 'I have faith but not works'"

Q.E.D. ~~ "Who on earth would say that?"

BibleOnly "Anyone who claims that not all Christians speak in tongues."

Q.E.D. ~~ Hate to burst your bubble, BibleOnly, but all Christians do not speak in tongues. Mathematical statistics and empirical evidence is against you if your claim is that "All Christians speak in tongues".

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

What a sad mistake and a serious delusion relying on the gibberish of tongues as a sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit....

Interesting that people keep saying that, but can't explain away the scriptures that prove it.... :-)

Q.E.D.~~ Please provide your Bible proof,BibleOnly, that ALL Christians speak in tongues. . . Book, Chapter and Verse please.

"The bane of all evil"

Q.E.D.

[BibleOnly]

I am confused why people keep asking me for proof when it's in the verses I have quoted and they have ignored.

Act 8:14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

How did they know they did not have the Spirit ? How is it possible to be a baptised believer and not have the Spirit ?

[Q.E.D.]

I am confused why people keep asking me for proof when it's in the verses I have quoted and they have ignored.

Act 8:14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Q.E.D. ~~ You should not be confused. People keep asking for your proof because the verses you supplied in Acts 8 DO NOT support your claims. Let's take a look at Acts 8.

"12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the *miracles and signs which were done.

14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost :

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,"(Acts 8:12-18)

Where in the above verses does it state that they "spoke in tongues"? The verse gives NO SPECIFIC INDICATION what Simon saw or what exactly happened. There is not a single mention of "tongues" anywhere in Chapter 8.

A willow bending in the wind. . .

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

How did they know they did not have the Spirit ?