Am curious about some here

[joeb]

God, Google and Facebook know everything we do.

Still do not see why paying 10 to 15 cents a day to help cover bandwidth and other expenses would be trumped by that. It is 10% or less of what most people pay for internet access alone per month.

[Stan]

>>>There are very few on this site who actually believe SDA doctrine.

REALLY?

Who and which ones don't they believe in?

[Stan]

>>>I don't support any site that promotes the loss of my privacy.

Yet you have no problem using the resources...

Just say you have no interest in covering your share of the expenses without make a bunch of excuses

[phkrause]

>>>I don't support any site that promotes the loss of my privacy.

Yet you have no problem using the resources...

Just say you have no interest in covering your share of the expenses without make a bunch of excuses

[Twilight II]

As to this site promoting Seventh-day Adventism, I don't think it does. As far as I can tell, it promotes doubt of SDA beliefs. It's much closer to Babel than an honest search for truth with its confusion of thought, theology, and doubt. There are very few on this site who actually believe SDA doctrine.

You are not the first to express these concerns.

However, expect an arbitrary response to your posts and a possible ban from one or another, or indeed the whole forum...

[Stan]

Your block from one of the forum was not a spontaneous event was it? The few rules that were required for you to agree to was to give mind to moderators, did that happen? Each moderator has the right to have the tone he wants in his/her forum.

He did not ask me to put that block in, I did it, and take ownership for that. He did accept that.

There are all kinds of other forums here. Post in and enjoy them.

[Twilight II]

You still fail to understand a simple point Stan.

You claim to represent Adventist thought and principles with this board.

Yet no matter how many times people point out their concerns that you are not following those thoughts and principles, you dismiss it and carry on promoting your own particular and personal view of Adventism.

Which offers support to the extreme liberal elements of Adventism and promotion of those ideals and even non-Adventist ideologies. (Like having an Evolutionist Moderator on a Creationist Forum in recent times - until they quit that post of course)

When you are challenged on this, you and your supporters respond in an arbitrary manner suggesting people should leave the boards.

The problem however is this.

By claiming to be an Adventist institution, you come under the gaze and approval or disapproval of the wider Adventist community.

If you do not like that gaze, you should not claim to be an Adventist institution that is serving the public and offering a free resource.

You should also not be expecting financial support when you run your board in an arbitrary manner that operates outside of the Adventist Church principles of accountability.

Your moderators are permitted to act in an Arbitrary manner and you yourself condone it allowing them to "flavour" their own boards.

Recent private communications with one of you moderators I have on record (useful email function that), which shows what this "flavour" tastes like.

It is interesting that you want support from the Adventist community, but you do not hold yourself or your moderators accountable to that community.

Instead believing you have the right to be "arbitrary".

You or your moderators are not accountable to the wider Adventist Community in any way shape or form and therefore should not identify yourself as representing such.

I hope someone from the Church starts to realise what exactly is going on on this board, and how you show a deep disdain and disregard for the biblical principles of open acccountability to your fellow Christian Brethren...

And removes your right to claim the right to be representative of Adventist principles.

Of course, you will not respond to this in open discussion to address these concerns.

You will of course, going on past evidence, most likely act in some arbitrary manner, cheered on by your faithful liberal contingent that do not actually believe in freedom of expression, unless that expression is liberal in nature... :-)

[John317]

Each moderator has the right to have the tone he wants in his/her forum.

This is not true in reality. It's the reason I quit. You "give in" under pressure from certain people on the forum.

[Twilight II]

Your block from one of the forum was not a spontaneous event was it? The few rules that were required for you to agree to was to give mind to moderators, did that happen? Each moderator has the right to have the tone he wants in his/her forum.

He did not ask me to put that block in, I did it, and take ownership for that. He did accept that.

There are all kinds of other forums here. Post in and enjoy them.

It is your arbitrary manner that is the problem Stan.

If you do not like something someone has said, you do not engage in conversation, you do not engage in discussion.

You just use your position to silence that individual.

Maybe if you knew how to engage with criticism, instead of treating it in an arbitrary manner, you would not have difficulties with so many posters that you deem "conservative".

If you want support from the wider Adventist Community, then you need transparent accountability.

You signally fail to understand that simple Christian and Adventist principle.

That is very concerning.

[Twilight II]

My recent clash with one of your moderators was because I challenged the idea that anyone could have an "original thought".

Apparently challenging that basic logical fallacy was considered a crime on this forum.

Many many of us here are concerned with your arbitrary manner and your support for your moderators and insistence that they are allowed to act in an arbitrary manner.

Why is it that you do not understand that you should not behave in an arbitrary manner as a Christian, or that you should not give your moderators license to do so?

[M. T. Cross]

Actually Twilight - I think he is asking for support from the non SDA people here as well.

I think this board does a great service to the SDA church. I know I no longer hate the denomination with the intense passion I used to.

[phkrause]

Actually Twilight - I think he is asking for support from the non SDA people here as well.

I think this board does a great service to the SDA church. I know I no longer hate the denomination with the intense passion I used to.

[Twilight II]

Actually Twilight - I think he is asking for support from the non SDA people here as well.

I think this board does a great service to the SDA church. I know I no longer hate the denomination with the intense passion I used to.

That is irrelevant to the issues I am raising.

Whilst it may be true, it is not the issue I am raising or challenging.

Just because you have valued aspects of this board, it does not then logically imply that Stan and the moderators should act in an arbitrary fashion.

It should also not remove the basic idea of accountability to the Adventist online community.

I would support this board financially in an instance if accountability was placed into the system.

But as it is, Stan has set it up so that the moderators can act like "gods" and any criticism of them is handled in private with no input allowed form the board community.

So the issues at hand are these:

1. Arbitrary managment of the board.

2. Lack of accountability to the Adventist Community.

3. Claiming to be an Adventist board when the above to premises clearly indicate that it is not operating on Adventist principles.

[Stan]

Twilight....

Please reread this...

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread....html#Post20846

[Twilight II]

That does not deal with the arbitrary nature in which you run this board, or the arbitrary nature in which you allow your moderators to moderate on this board Stan.

It is totally irrelevant to the points I have made.

Which are:

1. This board is run in an arbitrary fashion.

2. There is no accountability to the church or Adventist online community.

Do you understand my concerns?

[M. T. Cross]

Well.

Almost any functional message board you go to gives moderators the freedom to act at their own discretion. There usually is a moderators forum where the moderators as a group discuss the more questionable calls. As far as I understand CA has one of those as well.

Public debate of a moderators call causes chaos. It leads to all sorts of hard feelings and misunderstandings.

In the 7 years I acted as a moderator and admin for Sanctuary Music, working on the Iron Maiden and Halford forums this was the exact formula we followed. With great success.

When Iron Maiden made their forums a paid fan Club forum only they removed the rights of the moderators to act at our own discretion. The result has been horrible.

Look, these are communities. Every community has rules and every community has people to enforce those rules. We don't always agree with the rules and we don't always agree with the way they are enforced. But crying foul every time you are reminded of the rules, rules you should already be aware of does little to improve the community.

As far as this place being associated with the SDA church. It is called Club Adventist. It makes it clear that it is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by the GC. It is a place where SDA's, non SDA's, former SDA's etc can meet and talk about their thoughts on the principals of said denomination. It does not claim to be THE SDA SITE. Though I fail to see how it violates any of the principles of the SDA church. It may violate your personal view of them, but truly that is your personal issue.

[Twilight II]

Well.

Almost any functional message board you go to gives moderators the freedom to act at their own discretion. There usually is a moderators forum where the moderators as a group discuss the more questionable calls. As far as I understand CA has one of those as well.

Public debate of a moderators call causes chaos. It leads to all sorts of hard feelings and misunderstandings.

In the 7 years I acted as a moderator and admin for Sanctuary Music, working on the Iron Maiden and Halford forums this was the exact formula we followed. With great success.

When Iron Maiden made their forums a paid fan Club forum only they removed the rights of the moderators to act at our own discretion. The result has been horrible.

Look, these are communities. Every community has rules and every community has people to enforce those rules. We don't always agree with the rules and we don't always agree with the way they are enforced. But crying foul every time you are reminded of the rules, rules you should already be aware of does little to improve the community.

As far as this place being associated with the SDA church. It is called Club Adventist. It makes it clear that it is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by the GC. It is a place where SDA's, non SDA's, former SDA's etc can meet and talk about their thoughts on the principals of said denomination. It does not claim to be THE SDA SITE. Though I fail to see how it violates any of the principles of the SDA church. It may violate your personal view of them, but truly that is your personal issue.

You are using examples of forums that are run on worldly principles to validate the way this forum is run.

This forum should not be run on such principles, it should be run on Christian principles.

The same principles that govern our church.

And right at the heart of our churches system is ACCOUNTABILITY.

We do not suffer arbitrary leadership.

We have democratic leadership and EVERYONE is accountable.

This forum does not follow those Christian principles because it claims that the owner and the moderators are exempt from those rules of accountability.

This is the simple objection I am making.

If this board is claiming to be an Adventist board, it should follow Adventist principle for organisation.

But the fact you have identified this forum with having the same principles governing it as the worldly forums is very revealing and in effect a recognition (although unconscious) of the principles I am trying to point out.

[Twilight II]

We do not "crucify" people when they do not agree with us...

The spirit of Arbitrary Leadership, is the same spirit that crucified Christ because He was critical of the way the Pharisees were running things.

He publically denounced them, openly in the temple, in front of the general public just before His crucifixion.

It is the spirit of anti-christ to insist on the right to be arbitrary.

[Stan]

TL

You might not agree with this, it does seem like you demand accountability .... TO YOU.

I really do not plan on spending a lot of my time providing the same answers.

This is a forum, they make comments, you respond with civil comments. If it is a forum that you are to give your own thoughts and not cut and paste copious text to define what you think, then that is how that forum goes.

Please read this, and think about it.....

[M. T. Cross]

No, basically the objection you are raising is to it not being run in a manner that soley caters to the hardcore conservitive view and allows those with differing beliefs to post here.

[Twilight II]

And if this board is truly Christian in nature, it will be able to handle public open logical criticism and debate about how it is run.

[Twilight II]

No, basically the objection you are raising is to it not being run in a manner that soley caters to the hardcore conservitive view and allows those with differing beliefs to post here.

That is a total misrepresentation of my position.

It does not matter if it is liberal or conservative.

If it is being run in an arbitrary manner and is not accountable to the wider community that it claims to represent, then it is not being run on Christian principles.

Yes I have concerns about it being overly liberal.

But you have mistakenly concluded from that that I am some type of neo-conservative.

Which, even if it where true, which it isn't, it would be irrelevant to the principles being discussed.

[Twilight II]

TL

You might not agree with this, it does seem like you demand accountability .... TO YOU.

I really do not plan on spending a lot of my time providing the same answers.

This is a forum, they make comments, you respond with civil comments. If it is a forum that you are to give your own thoughts and not cut and paste copious text to define what you think, then that is how that forum goes.

Please read this, and think about it.....

A misrepresentation of my position again Stan.

I have never demanded you be accountable to "me".

I have argued over and over you be accountable to the community you claim to represent.

You have no mechanism in place for that whatsoever.

Do you accept that it is a Christian Principle that you should be accountable to the communities you claim to serve?

You do not seem able to accept this simple point, or indeed respond to it.

Which is deeply concerning.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

No, basically the objection you are raising is to it not being run in a manner that soley caters to the hardcore conservitive view and allows those with differing beliefs to post here.

That is a total misrepresentation of my position.

It does not matter if it is liberal or conservative.

If it is being run in an arbitrary manner and is not accountable to the wider community that it claims to represent, then it is not being run on Christian principles.

Yes I have concerns about it being overly liberal.

But you have mistakenly concluded from that that I am some type of neo-conservative.

Which, even if it where true, which it isn't, it would be irrelevant to the principles being discussed.

Well if you go and slowly re-read your posts you will surely forgive me for coming up with that conclusion.

Simple fact. The rules for posting here and the rules for discussion on a moderator decision are fairly clearly spelled out in the FAQ. If your really disagree so strongly, why even register in the first place.

Not being able to abide by rules you agree to by registering to post here and then raising a huge stink over them. Is that the Christian principle you wish to have shown and abided by?

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

That is a total misrepresentation of my position.

It does not matter if it is liberal or conservative.

If it is being run in an arbitrary manner and is not accountable to the wider community that it claims to represent, then it is not being run on Christian principles.

Yes I have concerns about it being overly liberal.

But you have mistakenly concluded from that that I am some type of neo-conservative.

Which, even if it where true, which it isn't, it would be irrelevant to the principles being discussed.

Well if you go and slowly re-read your posts you will surely forgive me for coming up with that conclusion.

Simple fact. The rules for posting here and the rules for discussion on a moderator decision are fairly clearly spelled out in the FAQ. If your really disagree so strongly, why even register in the first place.

Not being able to abide by rules you agree to by registering to post here and then raising a huge stink over them. Is that the Christian principle you wish to have shown and abided by?