miz3 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 But it may also be metaphorical concerning those standing on the Sea of Glass. Peter puts God's saints in Mount Zion long before that: "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels." Hebrews 12:22 Were they literally standing on the Sea of Glass in Mount Zion? Of course not. The term "metaphorical" is again code for the Bible does not mean what it actually says. It means what I, Lysimachus, want it to say so as to fit my view of the truth.
Lysimachus Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: Lysimachus Oh, and the 7 last plagues happen BEFORE the Second Coming! Revelation is NOT written in chronological order! Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen are in chronological order. They are a chronological section. Revelation is divided into sections with each section having its own chronology. If we take your unchronological view of Revelation then we have say that one verse is not connected to another verse anywhere in the Book. Which is it? Are some parts chronological with other parts or is it as you are asserting that no portion of Revelation is in chronological order? You cannot have it both ways. Either it has some chronology or it has no chronology (which is what you assert). They are written in GENERAL chronological order. Not perfect chronological order. There is a difference, however, between general chronological order and immediate parentheses. Often John throws in parentheses, flash-forwarding to a spiritual scene to help grasp the picture. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: Lysimachus But it may also be metaphorical concerning those standing on the Sea of Glass. Peter puts God's saints in Mount Zion long before that: "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels." Hebrews 12:22 Were they literally standing on the Sea of Glass in Mount Zion? Of course not. The term "metaphorical" is again code for the Bible does not mean what it actually says. It means what I, Lysimachus, want it to say so as to fit my view of the truth. So Paul really meant that the ones he was writing to were on Mount Sion in the heavenly Jerusalem? ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Samie Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: Samie Since for the last 4 days, there had been no response to my last posts in the two topics I started, after a two-day lively discussion that resulted in 48 replies for the Pure Gospel & 69 replies for the early Saturday morning resurrection of the Lord, I am starting this one. I believe that the Bible teaches the 7 last plagues will be poured out AFTER, not BEFORE, the Second Coming. Rev 15 tells us that the saints were already seen in heaven standing in the sea of glass and had sung the song of Moses and of the Lamb (Rev 15:1-4) when the 7 angels were given the 7 vials (vv 5-8) and commanded to pour the plagues on earth (Rev 16:1). The 7 last plagues are the fulfillment of the wrath of God (Rev 15:1) and if they would be poured out before the 2nd coming then only the last day sinners will experience them and the multitude of sinners long dead can not. Clearly the Bible teaches the wrath of God is for all the ungodly (Rom 2:5-11). Any comments, forum mates? In Christ Our Righteous Judge, Samie Your logic is flawed. In Revelation 6, we have the second coming described when heaven opens up as a scroll and every mountain is moved out of place. Revelation Chapter 6: 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Chapter 7 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Revelation 6 describes the Second Coming. Then in Revelation chapter 7, John says "And AFTER these things I saw...." Saw what? Four angels holding back the four winds. But wait a minute, didn't the winds of strive transpire before the Second Coming? Wait a minute, God's servants have not been sealed yet!!! Samie, your problem is that you are reading your Bible with literalistic, Dispensational, Futurist, JESUIT lenses. Revelation is not a book of chronological order. One can only understand it when read in the Spirit, and by careful comparison to the other scriptures. Jesus is coming back only ONE TIME, for ALL of God's Children. Revelation 19:18 is clear that the fowls are not feasting on the flesh of SOME men, but ALL men! Then right after that in chapter 20 we have the Millennium, where Satan is bound. Coincidence that the flesh of ALL men are being feasted on and then we have the millennium transpire right after? I don't think so. I'm sorry if you can't grasp the order of events pertaining to the Second Coming and the events that follow, as they are in Scriptures, Lysimachus. Again, when Christ comes he will reward all - everyone both righteous and wicked - the righteous gets life eternal and ushered to heaven, the wicked suffers the wrath of God - the 7 Last Plagues.
miz3 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The point is, Evangelicals miss the big picture because they get caught up in syntax and letters rather than spiritual principles and spiritual messages that are being portrayed. They get hung up on silly tunnel vision than seeing the BIG picture and beautify of the great controversy being depicted. Anybody could say that about anything in the Bible and then assert what they want it to mean. Such methods do not prove your view but actually open up a "pandora's box" for every person to interpret Scripture in their own way and then call that interpretation truth. Thus, the Word of God becomes everyone's private interpretation because according to you God didn't mean what He actually had written. If that is the rule, then Samie's interpretation in actual FACT is just as good as your interpretation. Who are to tell him his logic is flawed. After all the Word of God is "not tunnel vision" as you say but just a loose "big picture" open to "spiritual discernment". What makes your "spiritual discernment" better than anyone else's? Hmmmm? Who died and made you king of interpretation and "spiritual discernment"?
Lysimachus Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I'm sorry if you can't grasp the order of events pertaining to the Second Coming and the events that follow, as they are in Scriptures, Lysimachus. Again, when Christ comes he will reward all - everyone both righteous and wicked - the righteous gets life eternal and ushered to heaven, the wicked suffers the wrath of God - the 7 Last Plagues. I'm sorry also that you haven't been able to prove me wrong. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen are in chronological order. They are a chronological section. Revelation is divided into sections with each section having its own chronology. If we take your unchronological view of Revelation then we have say that one verse is not connected to another verse anywhere in the Book. Which is it? Are some parts chronological with other parts or is it as you are asserting that no portion of Revelation is in chronological order? You cannot have it both ways. Either it has some chronology or it has no chronology (which is what you assert). They are written in GENERAL chronological order. Not perfect chronological order. There is a difference, however, between general chronological order and immediate parentheses. Often John throws in parentheses, flash-forwarding to a spiritual scene to help grasp the picture. In that case then Samie is correct to use Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen in "General Chronological order" which Samie has indeed done. You then should have no "beef" with Samie's interpretation of Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen because they fit "General Chronological order".
Lysimachus Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Anybody could say that about anything in the Bible and then assert what they want it to mean. Such methods do not prove your view but actually open up a "pandora's box" for every person to interpret Scripture in their own way and then call that interpretation truth. Thus, the Word of God becomes everyone's private interpretation because according to you God didn't mean what He actually had written. If that is the rule, then Samie's interpretation in actual FACT is just as good as your interpretation. Who are to tell him his logic is flawed. After all the Word of God is "not tunnel vision" as you say but just a loose "big picture" open to "spiritual discernment". What makes your "spiritual discernment" better than anyone else's? Hmmmm? Who died and made you king of interpretation and "spiritual discernment"? These interpretations aren't private interpretations, sir. They are based on long nights of fasting and prayer accompanied by the spirit of prophecy, and by a host of Godly men. Prove to me that the majority of the reformers and those bright-minds of the past interpreted the 7 last plagues as occurring after the Second Coming. If you can't produce even 10 of them, then it is you and Samie that has the private interpretation here, not us. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: Samie I'm sorry if you can't grasp the order of events pertaining to the Second Coming and the events that follow, as they are in Scriptures, Lysimachus. Again, when Christ comes he will reward all - everyone both righteous and wicked - the righteous gets life eternal and ushered to heaven, the wicked suffers the wrath of God - the 7 Last Plagues. I'm sorry also that you haven't been able to prove me wrong. That's it Lysimachus hang in there even though the evidence is a lock that your views/words are wrong.
Lysimachus Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 In that case then Samie is correct to use Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen in "General Chronological order" which Samie has indeed done. You then should have no "beef" with Samie's interpretation of Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen because they fit "General Chronological order". Revelation 20 is also in general chronological order. But, if you employ the same rules to Revelation 20 that you and Samie are employing to Revelation 15, you would be forced to conclude that there are 3 lakes of fires, and 3 resurrections. John was notorious for stating a fact, backing up, repeating, enlarging, going forward, backing up, repeating, enlarging, and then continuing. They are called mini-chiasms within a large overarching chiasm, yet still in general chronological order. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Oh, also not to mention that you have the New Jerusalem coming down TWICE in Revelation 21, and the Lake of Fire mentioned AGAIN. Yet we know that Revelation 20 and 21 are both in general chronological order. You have the earth made new in 21 after the 1000 years in 20. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 Anybody could say that about anything in the Bible and then assert what they want it to mean. Such methods do not prove your view but actually open up a "pandora's box" for every person to interpret Scripture in their own way and then call that interpretation truth. Thus, the Word of God becomes everyone's private interpretation because according to you God didn't mean what He actually had written. If that is the rule, then Samie's interpretation in actual FACT is just as good as your interpretation. Who are to tell him his logic is flawed. After all the Word of God is "not tunnel vision" as you say but just a loose "big picture" open to "spiritual discernment". What makes your "spiritual discernment" better than anyone else's? Hmmmm? Who died and made you king of interpretation and "spiritual discernment"? These interpretations aren't private interpretations, sir. They are based on long nights of fasting and prayer accompanied by the spirit of prophecy, and by a host of Godly men. Prove to me that the majority of the reformers and those bright-minds of the past interpreted the 7 last plagues as occurring after the Second Coming. If you can't produce even 10 of them, then it is you and Samie that has the private interpretation here, not us. Once again you appeal to human effort and human reason and human authority as proof of your "rightness". While I will continue to appeal to God through the Scriptures that are His direct Word. Thus, in spite of your denials your interpretations are indeed of "private interpretation", the "private interpretation" of human logic, human effort, human reason, and human authority. God said the "seven last plagues" occur after the Second Coming per His Word of Scripture in Revelation chapter fifteen and sixteen. You say that humans and yourself believe that the "seven last plagues" occur before the Second Coming. Given the two Authorities, I will take God while it appears that you take yourself/reformers/human. I like my position.
Dr. Rich Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The 7 plagues takes place during the last 5 months of the time of trouble. It only affects those who have not been sealed by God but have taken the Mark of the Beast. It's just that simple!
Dr. Rich Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Problem with all of this is this: ONLY the 144K will understand fully the Book of Revelation, so IF you don't know, then you just might be one of the wicked. (Dan. 12:10)
Samie Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 See the beauty and harmony of Scriptures as to the events that are to transpire during and after the Second Coming: 1. Christ had said, when He comes again He will reward everyone according to what each has done: KJV Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. NASB Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 2. The Bible explicitly tells us what these respective rewards are: life eternal for the righteous; wrath of God for the unrighteous: KJV Romans 2:5-8 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath 3. The fact that all will be rewarded necessitates that all shall be present to receive his own reward. Therefore, all the dead, both righteous and unrighteous, will be resurrected at the time of the Second Coming: John 5:28-29 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. This is the reason why the Bible says when Christ comes the righteous will be resurrected first (1 Thes 4:16-17) because the wicked will be resurrected next so that all will see Him come in the clouds and receive their due reward: Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. KJV Daniel 12:1-2 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 4. The righteous will then be ushered to heaven to attend the marriage of the Lamb. KJV Revelation 15:2-4 2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. 3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. 4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. KJV Revelation 19:1-7 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 5. Once the righteous have been ushered to heaven, the 7 last plagues will be poured out upon the wicked on this earth: KJV Revelation 15:5 - 16:1 5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. If the 7 last plagues will be poured out before the 2nd Coming, then all the wicked who were long dead will not suffer the 7 last plagues and will not be present to receive his reward, negating what the Lord Himself said that ALL will be rewarded according to what each has done. But the Lord will fulfill what He said. He can NEVER lie. In Christ Our Savior & Righteous Judge, Samie
Samie Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Originally Posted By: Samie I'm sorry if you can't grasp the order of events pertaining to the Second Coming and the events that follow, as they are in Scriptures, Lysimachus. Again, when Christ comes he will reward all - everyone both righteous and wicked - the righteous gets life eternal and ushered to heaven, the wicked suffers the wrath of God - the 7 Last Plagues. I'm sorry also that you haven't been able to prove me wrong. I don't have to. The Scriptures did it for me.
Gibs Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Hmmm, The sore appears to fall on the men who have received the mark of the beast and I see no other timing of the 7 last plagues in chap 15 and 16. Re 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. Then we have many who say the seven trumpets are the same as the seven last plagues. Are They? If so read this, this is after the sixth trumpet, Rev 9:13,, Re 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Re 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Human reasoning isn't the answer to prophetic events, the prophecies are Spiritually discerned. It is said, figures don't lie, and that is truth but that liars will figure. We have the same scenario in these interpretation on events. The Prophet Dan. said, Da 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Sure work on it, contemplate it and pray for His enlightenment to rightly discern it. Yes a few will have the right answer. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
12tribes Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The 7 plagues takes place during the last 5 months of the time of trouble. It only affects those who have not been sealed by God but have taken the Mark of the Beast. It's just that simple! Where in the Bible does it say that the time of trouble lasts for 5 months? Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
12tribes Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Problem with all of this is this: ONLY the 144K will understand fully the Book of Revelation, so IF you don't know, then you just might be one of the wicked. (Dan. 12:10) Where in the Bible does it say that only the 144k will understand fully the book of Revelation? Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Samie Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 The 7 plagues takes place during the last 5 months of the time of trouble. It only affects those who have not been sealed by God but have taken the Mark of the Beast. It's just that simple! What is even simpler is the fact that the wrath of God - the 7 last plagues - are for all wicked. But you are saying the wicked who have died before the 2nd Coming cannot suffer those plagues. Unbiblical.
Dr. Rich Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Sammie, while you tried to show how your opinion works, it is wrong. As I said before, one MUST first become one of the 144k to understand what is going to happen. (Rev. 1:1) This is whole book (Revelation) will only be understood by them as they are the bondservants for Jesus Christ who wake up the sleeping virgins before the time of trouble starts. The 'bride' (Rev. 7:9-16) are the ones who are sealed by God because of the righteous acts of the 144k and 5 wise virgins. (Rev. 19:7-8) All of this happens during the first 37 months (new moons) of the 42 new moons during the time of trouble which starts on the Spring equinox of 2016 and ends within 5 days of the fall equinox of 2019--that being the time when Jesus comes in the clouds. Jesus comes like a thief BEFORE the time of trouble in order to seal the 144k (who fully understand all of Revelation). Right now the SDA church as a corporate group are the "10 Virgins" who are now spiritually sleeping. The 5 foolish will be those who refuse to give up the false gospel of being saved by grace and becoming righteous by faith. And that's just the way it is my friends! Sure, you probably will laugh at me now, but please don't forget this information when 'it' happens.
Samie Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Hmmm, The sore appears to fall on the men who have received the mark of the beast and I see no other timing of the 7 last plagues in chap 15 and 16. ... Oh yes, there is. The righteous are already in the sea of glass before the throne in heaven (Rev 15:2-4) prior to the pouring out of the plagues (v5 - 16:1). Please don't close your eyes. Or you won't really see what you ought to see.
Samie Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Sammie, while you tried to show how your opinion works, it is wrong. As I said before, one MUST first become one of the 144k to understand what is going to happen. (Rev. 1:1) This is whole book (Revelation) will only be understood by them as they are the bondservants for Jesus Christ who wake up the sleeping virgins before the time of trouble starts. The 'bride' (Rev. 7:9-16) are the ones who are sealed by God because of the righteous acts of the 144k and 5 wise virgins. (Rev. 19:7-8) All of this happens during the first 37 months (new moons) of the 42 new moons during the time of trouble which starts on the Spring equinox of 2016 and ends within 5 days of the fall equinox of 2019--that being the time when Jesus comes in the clouds. Jesus comes like a thief BEFORE the time of trouble in order to seal the 144k (who fully understand all of Revelation). Right now the SDA church as a corporate group are the "10 Virgins" who are now spiritually sleeping. The 5 foolish will be those who refuse to give up the false gospel of being saved by grace and becoming righteous by faith. And that's just the way it is my friends! Sure, you probably will laugh at me now, but please don't forget this information when 'it' happens. Sorry, but what you say in your post proves you don't understand the order of events portrayed in Revelation. I guess you need to study more, Doctor.
Gibs Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 This is when the 7 last plagues will begin, Da 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And He has not delivered the saints yet, this will be the time the wicked will blame the righeous for their plight and it is then that Jesus Comes and delivers them out of this fiercest time of trouble that ever has been. This happens after the 4 angels holding back, turn it all loose. The saints will have to be delivered from the time of trouble Dan. speaks of above. It will get very rough before He delivers His Own, they will be tried severely. Am 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. Am 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Am 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Dr. Rich Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Samie, please give me the rules you use to understand Revelation. Please note, that things do not happen in order as you think they do, as it was written so that only those with insight would understand. Those on the sea of glass are those who go to heaven AFTER the 7 plagues have occured to those who only take the Mark. There are three groups that go to heaven, the called, chosen and faithful. The 144k are the chosen, the called are the 5 wise virgins, the faithful are those who found in Rev. 7:9-16, them being the bride.
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