Patrick Lawrence Posted January 20, 2012 Author Posted January 20, 2012 Sure just not clearly spelled out. Quote http://UROBI.com/
Woody Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Sure just not clearly spelled out. I'm not sure how much more clear this could be: 19. Law of God: The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Patrick Lawrence Posted January 20, 2012 Author Posted January 20, 2012 People on both sides of the Adventist spectrum can agree with it. Clearly there are some finer points not talked about. Quote http://UROBI.com/
Woody Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 What would those finer points be that are not covered? Even if there ARE "finer" point - I praise God they are not listed. The Gospel of Christ is a simple gospel. The Good News is simple enough for even the young to understand. When we start making it long and complicated and force the "finer" points on people - then we start to lose the Good News. There is no need to define all the finer points in a Doctrine of Faith. Each person will define the finer points in perhaps a different way depending upon their life experience. Praise God for that diversity. We are not all robots. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Patrick Lawrence Posted January 20, 2012 Author Posted January 20, 2012 Really it is important stuff. One paster will say if you have not over come known sin in your life after conversion there is a problem and things are not right. Another Adventist paster will say well God will help you with that in time. There is a reason why both sids write books and give sermons. And it not because it does not relate to personal christian experience and salvation. Quote http://UROBI.com/
ClubV12 Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Of course BOTH Pastors are correct. Sometimes we need to talk up faith, sometimes we need to emphasize works. Only the truly sincere and earnest will find the path and be able to stay on it, without swinging wildly from one side of the road to the other. Quote
Woody Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Really it is important stuff. One paster will say if you have not over come known sin in your life after conversion there is a problem and things are not right. Another Adventist paster will say well God will help you with that in time. There is a reason why both sids write books and give sermons. And it not because it does not relate to personal christian experience and salvation. If we rely on our pastors for our faith - we are in big trouble. Our pastor inspire us to study - but not to believe what they say exactly - hook line and sinker. Faith is personal. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Patrick Lawrence Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 ClubV12 no they were not both correct. They were oppposing views. BUT I do know what you mean in some instances. For example Ellen White told A. T. Jones he was not wrong but was stressing one side it gave people the wrong impression. So yes this does happen. But its not the kind of thing I mean. Woody I agree we should not rely on pastors. BUT Pastors have a special influence on people. And if they are wrong in what they are preaching it can do great harm. Quote http://UROBI.com/
ClubV12 Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I think we agree on the fundamental point Patrick, that was a much better example of Sister White counseling A.T. Jones about the need to be balanced. We must always be careful not to take to firm a stand on certain issues. Faith and works is a difficult subject to present. Most of us are STILL struggling with Galations and what it all means. And just when Paul gets going about faith, here comes James and he is all about works! You would think those two guys could never hammer out an agreement on the issue. And yet, they were in perfect harmony! And on some other issues, we must take a stand that is immovable, grounded in the solid rock and cannot be moved though the heavens fall! Quote
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 If we rely on our pastors for our faith - we are in big trouble. Our pastor inspire us to study - but not to believe what they say exactly - hook line and sinker. Faith is personal. I agree. Quote
Administrators Naomi Posted January 21, 2012 Administrators Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: Most of us are STILL struggling with Galations and what it all means. And just when Paul gets going about faith, here comes James and he is all about works! You would think those two guys could never hammer out an agreement on the issue. And yet, they were in perfect harmony! And on some other issues, we must take a stand that is immovable, grounded in the solid rock and cannot be moved though the heavens fall! Certainly agree Club Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
Woody Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: Most of us are STILL struggling with Galations and what it all means. And just when Paul gets going about faith, here comes James and he is all about works! You would think those two guys could never hammer out an agreement on the issue. And yet, they were in perfect harmony! And on some other issues, we must take a stand that is immovable, grounded in the solid rock and cannot be moved though the heavens fall! Certainly agree Club Good Point Naomi - I mean Club - We would think it silly to ask which one was lead by the Spirit - Paul or James. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
LifeHiscost Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: The third angel's message can dispense with these theories. The focus is to be on the necessity of appropriating the merits of Christ to ourselves that we may be clothed with the robe of His righteousness for His righteousness accomplishes everything as it imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, and all the pardon of sin. See T.M.92,93; F.W.27,24. sky Nothing could be closer to all the Truth that we need. However, there is a conspiracy going on, and the master of deceit uses human beings to carry on the deceit that prevails in abundance in every profession that one follows, worldwide. The only ones that remain free of that deceit, and yes, that includes conspiracies, are those who seek Truth as it is found in the Word, given by Him Who is known as the Truth. If we who consider ourselves beyond that deception, we are sure to fail of escaping its' influence. "....let anyone who thinks he stands [who feels sure that he has a steadfast mind and is standing firm], take heed lest he fall [into sin]." 1 Cor 10:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."Ephesians 6:12 NKJV "...you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."Jeremiah 29:13 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: You also refer to the 9/11 stuff. The problem is not that he talks about it to much in relations to conspiracies. The problem is he talks about it at all in relation to conspiracy theories. But it is just as untrue and damaging as his other false conspiracy theories. So again my problem is the many many errors mixed in with the truth. This is something Satan wants not God. And Satan will use it to discredit the truth. I would incourage you or any one else that might have access to him to please with him to stick to the gospel and three angels message and stay away from these false theories. And to be careful with every single thing he connects to the present truth. If we are so certain that his presentations are such as to classify them as bearing false witness, God has given the proper approach to take, especially since he is a professed follower of Christ and a member of the body of Christ. "“If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17 NLT If we don't think it is important enough to take those steps ourselves, then we become nothing more than a gossip and back biter, of which if continued, this is our life revealed. "All this time you have been thinking that we are defending ourselves to you. Actually, it is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ; and all for your upbuilding, beloved. For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances"2 Corinthians 12:19-20 NASB God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: By its very nature - conspiracy is not well known "in general" and so anyone claiming to know so much about it as to claim "this or that" is most definitely NOT a conspiracy -- or most definitely IS a conspiracy - have a lot of work to do to back up their claim - either way. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Patrick Lawrence Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 Lifehiscost you are confused. People can have incorrect ideas without it being a sin. People preaching incorrect history that is not salvational is not a sin necessarily. We have not way of knowing where they are with God. So it is more a matter of an open public topic he is teaching around the world. This is not covered by the verses you list. Look over all I wrote. I never said he was committing a sin. Never said he was not right with God. Never said he was a bad man etc etc. But what I have done is shown clearly his conspiracy theories are wrong. And I have talked about how they hurt the three angels message. This needs to be done in public to counter act his false public statements. And as mentioned if some one has his email they can PM me and I will talk to him directly. By the way in response to at least one of his critics he says "My sources are not "obscure" but very prominent and anyone can check them.". http://www.steps.org.au/page/Dr-Walter-Veith-Replies-to-Criticism.html Sadly my feeling is even if I get to talk to him it would not help. I have other friends who are like him deeply into these conspiracy theories. And for them it is pretty much impossible to prove things. Since any fact they do not agree with is part of the plot. Quote http://UROBI.com/
LifeHiscost Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: The trick is to not get into things that are not salvational When it comes to deception, whether it is purposeful or out of ignorance, if it is accepted it is salvational. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: Sure just not clearly spelled out. "....that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”"1 Corinthians 1:29-31 NKJV "“But I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!”"John 9:25 NLT God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: Most of us are STILL struggling with Galations and what it all means. And just when Paul gets going about faith, here comes James and he is all about works! You would think those two guys could never hammer out an agreement on the issue. And yet, they were in perfect harmony! And on some other issues, we must take a stand that is immovable, grounded in the solid rock and cannot be moved though the heavens fall! Certainly agree Club And another thing I'd like to clear up here as long as we're discussing sticky issues. Why is it that the women on this forum are so attractive and the men seem to be real dogs? Just sayin'. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Administrators Gail Posted January 21, 2012 Administrators Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah, that got my attention, too! :) Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Naomi Posted January 21, 2012 Administrators Posted January 21, 2012 Quote: And another thing I'd like to clear up here as long as we're discussing sticky issues. Why is it that the women on this forum are so attractive and the men seem to be real dogs? Just sayin'. LC on behalf of all the women on this forum THANK YOU!! But, we love you guys ... just the way you are! Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
Gibs Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 AW gee whiz, a good dog "barks" a lot, at what he perceives as something to be checked on, considered to be a "good" watchdog if he don't give false alarms. AW com on are not many good ones, or hey at least a few you gals. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Administrators Naomi Posted January 21, 2012 Administrators Posted January 21, 2012 Yes, I would say he is a good dog ... at least handsome Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
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