Doomsday Date

[skyblue888]

We need to be very careful with the 7,000 year theory. This is some information I learned from AUC, Andrews and Loma Linda, official teaching arms of the church about this theory:

The text from which we add up the ages to get 6,000 years are very ancient texts and had been updated in language much over the centuries (thus giving evidence of the authenticity of those parts of scripture being historical) but with all the translating the numbers have become very hard to read, the ages we have are basically estimates, which gets to about 6,000 to 10,000 years. When looked at the 3 ancient families, the Palestinian text (the Bible Jesus used) the best know and best complete is the Dead Sea Scrolls, had the earth become 7,000 years old when Jesus came the first time. The Egyptian family (the Bible Paul used) the best known is the Septuant, different manuscripts has the earth now 7,000 to 10,000 years old. It was the Babylonian family (the Bible of those who stayed in Babylon after the exile) of texts from which we got the masseritic text and the 6,000 years (and there were 2 reasons why we got this to be our Bible. First there was a Rabbi who was originally from Babylon and came to Jerusalem and became a famous Rabbi and he liked the Bible he grew up with. Second, shortly before Jesus, a Rabbi, using the Palestinian Text counting up the ages figured that the word would soon reach the 7,000 year mark and equated the days of creation to the 7,000 years that he believed the world was about to turn so he said that the 7,000 year would be the age of the messiah. When Jesus claimed to be the messiah and Jews rejected him they wanted to push the 7,000th year farther into the future and so they took the Babylonian text so that they could say that the world was only 4,000 years old and thus Jesus could not fulfill what the Rabbi taught about the messiah coming when the world was 7,000 years)

You can look up this reference in the March 1984 issue of Ministry mag. In ancient manuscripts they are unfortunately not consecutive generations. The culture was to list the important people in the line. When Genesis 5:12-14 talks about Cainan and Mahalaleel, for the ancient manuscripts it would mean that when Cainan was 75 years old he had a child. That child was either Mahalaleel, or else a child who was the direct ancester to Mahalaleel.

Some things about Mrs. White and the 6,000 years:

The Mrs. White quote from Spirit of Prophecy "And many who profess to believe the Bible record are at a loss to account for wonderful things which are found in the earth, with the view that creation week was only seven literal days, and that the world is now only about six thousand years old. These, to free themselves from difficulties thrown in their way by infidel geologists, adopt the view that the six days of creation were six vast, indefinite periods, and the day of God’s rest was another indefinite period; making senseless the fourth commandment of God’s holy law. Some eagerly receive this position; for it destroys the force of the fourth commandment, and they feel a freedom from its claims upon them. They have limited ideas of the size of men, animals, and trees, before the flood, and of the great changes which then took place in the earth."

Notice, this does not have Mrs. White herself saying that the world is 6,000 years old, but just that people who want to believe the Bible are saying that 6,000 is too short so they turn to making the literal days to be longer periods of time instead of holding to the literal week. And she basically says that we don't know enough about the Bible or enough understanding of these changes, that the changes took place a lot faster than the evolutionists theorize. (i.e. Mrs. White has a fast evolution dealing with the 2 events, the entrance of sin and the changes after the flood, rather than the gradual evolution that the evolutionists teach)

Also, when Mrs. White was expanding her earlier writings into Patriarchs and Prophets, she came across a passage where she said that the earth was 6,000 years old, she crossed it out and put her initials by the cross out and [and please forgive me that I have forgotten the reference, I had it memorized for a few years, I actually read this; in the summer of 1984 taking a class on Biblical Archaeology, we were required to walk over to the White Estate vault with the reference and see this evidence in person because the professor knew that we would not believe him if he told us... sadly I have to tell you, but this is not repeating what a professor or pastor said, but we were actually sent to hold the first hand evidence in our hands and read it] Mrs. White wrote an article where she down plays the 6,000 years. She does argue strongly that Creation week was indeed a literal week, and she argues strongly that the earth is fairly young, however she said that we don't need to hold tightly to the strict 6,000 years, that what ever age we hold for the world just needs to be fair to the Bible.

There are many passages where she says things like "for about 6,000 years" "for almost 6,000 years" "for over 6,0000 years" Now while they all keep referring to 6,000 years, she is not discussing the age of the earth in these passages but uses it for a term meaning the sweep of the great controversy. Second, it was her editors who made them all read 6,000 years, the passages in her own handwriting uses different numbers with in a couple thousand year period, she is not consistant, showing that she does not see the age as being that big a deal otherwise she herself would have written the exact number consistantly and would not need her editors to make them uniformally read 6,000 years.

I am again sorry that I do not have the reference for the article that Mrs. White wrote that down plays the 6,000 years. But these are things that have been pointed out to me from the teaching arm of the Seventh-day Adventist church, much of it being what we had to go to the libarary to get the first hand reference. These are just pieces of evidence that we should keep in a corner of our mind as we study this topic, and we need to be very careful with the 7,000 year theory, which comes from Rabinical tradition, and from a Rabbi who believe that the world was about to turn 7,000 years in the near future to him. When nothing happened but that some Jews were saying that Jesus was the Messiah, the other Jews wanted to push the 7,000 year theory (which Jesus and the disciples could have used as a key text but refused to) far away from Jesus so they picked a text that made the world only 4,000 years when Jesus came, and it comes from reading in a Greek interpetation of the geneologies rather than allowing the geneologys to reflect their culture.

Here she is in vision and says:

"Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence: the righteous break forth into singing." The Great Controversy, 673.

sky

[Gail]

SKY!!! It's a quote box!!! WOW!! Nice work!!

AND your post looks so nice in relation to the quote!

[Tallmark]

On a side note, it's not "doomsday" in my thinking.

It's the rescue day, time to leave, and good riddance.

Right on!

BTW, there are some that believe that we have 3 and 1/2 years remaining after the Sunday Law is passed before Jesus comes. It's possible. Just saying.....

[Lynda]

3 and 1/2 years could very well have something to do with the last events. Consider the following:

Elijah, whom we are told represents those of us who will be alive at the Lord's appearing,was nourished for the period of a 3 1/2 year famine by ravens. At the end of that time, he went back to see Ahab and had the showdown at Mt. Carmel. Then he saw a "small black cloud," the sign of rain, and also, we are told, the sign of Jesus coming in the clouds.

Jesus had a 3 1/2 year ministry before death was decreed for Him.

His disciples preached for 3 1/2 years to the Jews; then death was decreed for Stephen.

The Jewish temple was surrounded by Roman soldiers in 66 A.D. Those who saw the sign and believed in Christ fled Jerusalem (as we are warned to flee the cities when the Sunday Law comes). Then 3 1/2 years later, destruction came to the city, but the believers were saved.

I don't know about you, but the Bible stories are so filled with such interesting "coincidences" that we must wonder if they are trying to tell us something important about our time. After all, SOP says "history will be repeated."

[Gibs]

Ge 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

In the beginning Adam was told in the day, which then was a thousand yrs to us, he sinned he would die. With God a day is 1,000 yrs.. So then sin he did and he died in God's first day. Five more and the next, the seventh will be the Sabbath for this earth and she will get her bad needed rest. It will lay desolate that long.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

And it isn't a gonna be long now!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

Sky: I gave information that I did not dream up but was what the official teaching arm of the Seventh-day Adventist church; Atlantic Union College, Andrews University and Loma Linda University officialy taught with the approval of the General Conference. And yes, you can go into the White estate and read Mrs. White's handwritings and how she does not consistantly use the term 6,000 years, despite the fact that the publishers have made the statements consistantly 6,000 years. And yes, she did indeed write an article downplaying the 6,000 years. Please answer two questions for me

Why is OUR CHRUCH teaching these things? and Why are we able to find these things in the writings of Mrs. White at the White estate? Granted they are not popularized, but they do exist. People are upset that I tell them about this information, but remember I'm only the person who happened to sit in the classroom and who was sent to the White Estate vault with the pieces of paper of what to read. Your gripe is with the church and Mrs. White. One quote from the Great Controversy does not rip out the other things that Mrs. White really did write and I have seen.

[TreeOfLife]

To What Extent Am I the One Delaying His Coming...?

Matthew 24:36....

The Israelites followed a specific process from the proposal for matrimony to the marriage feast or wedding...

A little known fact of this process was this, that the bride must be ready...

Matthew 25:5"Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep...

Thanks Way Finder!

I find your emphasis upon the readiness of the bride and of the delaying by the bridegroom most valuable to consider... Something I'd like to think about more and to better understand...

To me the bride is the People of God at large, that is, the living breathing people who are what they are, weak and fragile, yes, but who are sincerely and wholeheartedly walking the Way of learning God's Way, the Way of Truth, and the Way of real time Life in the here and now.

To me the bridegroom is each One among the 'foremost' / "first begotten" Sons and Daughters of God. That is, the individual beings among the People of God, who are fearlessly standing up and who are following in the footsteps of our Savior, the Messiah, the One who is forever our example and pattern. Cf. also Ex 4:22

Now, when I stop for a moment to consider what that means in terms of "the bridegroom delaying..." Well...

To what extent do I, in my life here and now, have a responsibility for not delaying the realization of God's offers as they become available to me from day to day?

To what extent do I have a tendency to postpone the realization of God's promises into an indefinite future? Or conversely, to what extent do I tend to perceive an offer of God to me as merely a one time miraculous event of past history, that is, belonging to another time, place, and person?

To what extent do I point the finger of responsibility upon another? That is, such that I may remain passive while waiting for someone else's initiative? For Jesus' second coming...?

Indeed, what basis do I have for delegating all of my own responsibility? That is, for the realization of the Second Coming of Christ? Is it truly ok for me to put all the responsibility for that event upon that One Son of God who called himself "the son of man?"

To what extent am I - as a lonely hiker upon the Way towards the Kingdom of God - a bridegroom destined for being wedded to the Bride? And who is the Bride if not the People of God? And who is the People of God if not first and foremost that which was created into the image of God per Gen 1:27? That is, "male and female created he them." And isn't that first and foremost a direct reference to each our own family, mine as well as yours?

How much more of an intimate and real time relationship with Himself can God offer me but that which He is, or has been, offering me through my very own parents? And or through my very own spouse and children? Biological as well as spiritual...

Are such thoughts too far out???

Consider it! Selah!

[ClubV12]

Kevin, when Sister White was addressing the concept of a "young earth" vs the evolutionist idea of a very "old earth" (millions of years), it would be reasonable for her to use a "young earth" number widely accepted by the people. In her day and much the same today that number is about 6,000.

If she had used a different number, 7,000 or 10,000 or whatever, her point, her comments concerning young earth vs old earth would have been lost in the controversy over the number she used. The actual age of the earth in this comparison is irrelevant. Christians belive it is FAR less than "millions". She was simply getting across the point that the creation days were a 24 hour literal time frame and that the earth was "young".

I think this idea can carry forward to many of her comments in relation to the age of the earth. Lets not get hung up on the exact number and loose sight on the larger issue. For "6,000" years Satan has been allowed to work, for instance. What if she said 10,000? Or 20,000? We would be hung up on the "number" and miss the point. Kind of like being hung up on the 6,000 right now, lets not miss the bigger picture. It's a young earth, soon to end, pick a number your happy with. Whatever number it is, it is far less than "millions". :)

[Gibs]

This verse ClubV12 I think answers the question IF it is thought out,

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The reason these Apostles of old understood these things the writings of Enoch were well known to them and guotes from Enoch are made quite often.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

On a side note, it's not "doomsday" in my thinking.

It's the rescue day, time to leave, and good riddance.

Right on!

BTW, there are some that believe that we have 3 and 1/2 years remaining after the Sunday Law is passed before Jesus comes. It's possible. Just saying.....

It is doomsday for those who are not ready to meet Jesus in the air but to those who are, yes, to be sure, it is rescue day.

The 42 months of Rev.13:5 are not literal months but prophetic months which amounts to 1260 literal years of papal supremacy which ended in 1798.

It is not possible to aplly this time prophecy in literal time in these last days for we would then automatically know when the message would end and when probation would close.

"God has not revealed to us the time when this message will close, or when probation will have an end." 1 S.M.191.

Thus we read, "Time will never be a test again. I saw some were getting a false excitement, arising from preaching time, that the third angel's message can stand on its own foundation, and that it needs not time to strengthen it, and that it will go with mighty power, and do its work, and will be cut short in righteousnesss." 1 S.M.188.

"Again and again have I been warned in regard to time setting. There will never again be a message for the people of God that will be based on time. We are not to know the definite time either for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit or for the coming of Christ." 1 S.M.188.

sky

[skyblue888]

Sky: I gave information that I did not dream up but was what the official teaching arm of the Seventh-day Adventist church; Atlantic Union College, Andrews University and Loma Linda University officialy taught with the approval of the General Conference. And yes, you can go into the White estate and read Mrs. White's handwritings and how she does not consistantly use the term 6,000 years, despite the fact that the publishers have made the statements consistantly 6,000 years. And yes, she did indeed write an article downplaying the 6,000 years. Please answer two questions for me

Why is OUR CHRUCH teaching these things? and Why are we able to find these things in the writings of Mrs. White at the White estate? Granted they are not popularized, but they do exist. People are upset that I tell them about this information, but remember I'm only the person who happened to sit in the classroom and who was sent to the White Estate vault with the pieces of paper of what to read. Your gripe is with the church and Mrs. White. One quote from the Great Controversy does not rip out the other things that Mrs. White really did write and I have seen.

In the introduction of the book The Great Controversy, p.X, we read:

"For six thousand years that master mind that once was highest among the angels of God has been wholly bent to the work of deception and ruin. And all the depths of satanic skill and subtlety acquired, will be brought to bear against God's people in the final conflict."

On page 518, we read, "The great controversy between Christ and Satan, that has been carried forward for nearly six thousand years, is soon to close; and the wicked one redoubles his efforts to defeat the work of Christ in man's behalf and to fasten souls in his snares. To hold the people in darkness and impenitence till the Saviour's mediation is ended, and there is no longer a sacrifice for sin, is the object which he seeks to accomplish."

Then, on page 552, we read, "Thus under a new disguise the great rebel still carries on his warfare against God, begun in heaven and for nearly six thousand years continued upon the earth."

On page 656, she describes events taken place at the time of the sixth plague when the wicked are destroyed:

"For six thousand years the great controversy has been in progress... Now all have made their decisions; the wicked have fully united with Satan in his warfare against God. The time has come for God to vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. Now the controversy is not alone with Satan, but with men. 'The Lord has a controversy with the nations... He will give them that are wicked to the sword.'" Jeremiah 25:31.

On page 659, she is looking back and says,

"For six thousand years, Satan's work of rebellion has 'made the earth to termble.' He has 'made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof.' And he 'opened not the house of his prosoners.' For six thousand years his prison house has received God's people, and he would have held them captive forever; but Christ has broken his bonds and set the prisoners free."

On page 673, again she is looking back and says,

"Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence: the righteous break forth into singing." The Great Controversy, 673.

sky

One more from Patriarchs & Prophets, p.342:

Again she is looking back and says,

"For six thousand years Satan has struggled to maintain possession of the earth. Now God's original purpose in its creation is accomplished. 'The saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever." Daniel 7:18.

[TreeOfLife]

:)

"Nearly 6,000 years..." - Or More Precisely: The 5924th Year...

Dear family in Christ,

The Bible states that we will know the time of His second coming by the signs of the seasons, something like knowing rainy seasons but not the exact second when the lightning strikes.

So I have been thinking about the age of our world at around six thousand years...

. . . . .

Any further help, please?

Thanks Raphael!

For the record, and in an attempt to provide my two bits in response to your request:

After a life time of being very interested in these things, and after a good decade of focusing intently upon Scripture chronology studies per se - not prophecy, but actual dates of the past as recorded in the Scriptures and as anchored upon ancient records of astronomy - I am presently of the opinion that, most likely, today may be reckoned as follows:

In terms of the Scripture calendar: Today is the First Day [of the week] and the 12th day of the 10th moon in the 5924th year after the beginning recorded in Genesis One, and, in the 2028th year after the beginning recorded in Luke 1:26-33 [i.e. Saturday evening February 4, in the 2012th year after the beginning of Caesar Tiberius' reign.]

I find reason for believing that without a stable platform in terms of a reliable understanding of Scripture chronology from the beginning of time, one cannot possibly make any reasonably reliable prediction re the future. I believe that would include also a correct understanding of Scripture prophecies. Accordingly, I find myself quite surprised to find that so little effort has been spent upon such studies as would be intent upon finding a more correct chronology than that which our beloved Seventh-day Adventist pioneers were able to arrive at after a life time of studying these things...

It has been said over and over again that no one knows the time for the Second Coming of Messiah… (Cf. Romans 13:11 as well as Matt 24:36 and Mark 13:32.) On the other hand, Ellen White is the author of both of the following passages:

• ”Different times were repeatedly set for the Lord to come and were urged upon the brethren; but the Lord showed me that they would all pass by, for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ, and that every time that was set and passed by would only weaken the faith of God’s people. For this I was charged with being the evil servant that said in his heart, “My Lord delayeth His coming.” ” (E. G. White, EW 22.1)

• ”The mountains shook like a reed in the wind, and cast out ragged rocks all around. The sea boiled like a pot and cast out stones upon the land. And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus’ coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people…”

  (E. G. White, EW 34.1)

On the surface the above two statements of Ellen White may seem contradictory. However, I believe I have good reasons for being convinced that, so far as that is concerned, that error is all in the eyes of the beholders...

Consider it! Selah!

[skyblue888]

TOL, if we are to follow your findings to their logical conclusion, we could know the very year and may be the very month or may be the very day of Christ's second coming but both Scriptures and SOP clearly teach that we cannot know this until God reveals it to His people at the time of the fifth plague when they shall hear the voice of God.

sky

[phkrause]

Excellent post skyblue888.

[phkrause]

[*]”Different times were repeatedly set for the Lord to come and were urged upon the brethren; but the Lord showed me that they would all pass by, for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ, and that every time that was set and passed by would only weaken the faith of God’s people. For this I was charged with being the evil servant that said in his heart, “My Lord delayeth His coming.” ” (E. G. White, EW 34.1)

I can surely agree with that statement. Can remember back when I heard people predicting all sorts of date's, which all have come and past by the way, many people have left because of all the predicting.

[Gibs]

This old world since year one of Adam is aprox. 5995 yrs. old and 2012 + 5 = 2017.

Adam live into his 931'st year, exactly 19 Jubilees and this is our most accurate counting of time. Those who don't understand the accuracy of that Jubilee calendar will take no heed.

The book of Jubilees I have goes through about 50 jubilees, don't remember exactly now, and then they were lost for a spell but a recovery is made and perfect synchrony is easily determined.

It's immaterial as He definitley is coming soon as all the signs fortell that are all around us and knocking at the minds door.

If ya wants to look into it go here,

www.itsaboutthattime.net/Calendar_Synopsis.htm

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[TreeOfLife]

Could it Be That We are, Even Now, Living in the Time of the 7th Plague?

TOL, if we are to follow your findings to their logical conclusion, we could know the very year and may be the very month or may be the very day of Christ's second coming but both Scriptures and SOP clearly teach that we cannot know this until God reveals it to His people at the time of the fifth plague when they shall hear the voice of God.

sky

Thanks Sky!

I find it interesting that you should mention the fifth plague of Revelation 16:10-11 in this connection...

No doubt you've heard about - and seen with your own eyes - those chem trails being painted every day all over the skies of our planet, have you not?

In case you don't believe that is what you are seeing, perhaps you owe it to yourself to hear it from the horse's mouth by going to http://olgacomglobal.pl/ and by listening to the YouTube video presentation of one of the former employees of Olgacom at the top of this link...

What do you think? Could it be that we have arrived already at the time of the fulfillment of the pouring out, not only of the 5th, but of the 7th plague?:

• Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Please compare also our Savior's own words!:

• John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Consider it! Selah!

[wayfinder]

Reguarding the fifth plague. In order to be fifth, the first, second, third, and fourth plagues would have already been poured out. These seven "bowls full of the wrath of God" follow, in sequence, the seven trumpets (Revelation 8 and 9) and the pronouncment of the victory of God's kingdom over the kingdom of the world and Satan. The bowls of wrath are poured out only on those who have received the mark of the beast and the number of his name 666. This has clearly not taken place yet; because the kingdom of the world and the working of the evil one continue to be in control of this world. By the time of the fifth plague, the holy people will know when their King will appear in the heavens, because they know the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and have listened to the testimony of the two witnesses. Both prophecy and prophets will describe what will be taking place on earth at the time of His appearing. The events which must take place before the fifth plague are: the return of the Master to His bondservants and sealing of the 144,000; the awakening and judging of the bridesmaids; the casting down of the censer (Revelation 8:3-5); the first four trumpets; the ministry of the two witnesses; the last three trumpets (of the seven), which are also called woes (first, second, third); the execution of the two witnesses and their subequent resurrection and assention into heaven; the triumph of God and His kingodom; the first four bowls of wrath; then the fifth bowl is poured out on those with the mark of the beast.

[TreeOfLife]

My error! Sorry P Krause, I got you the wrong reference:

Originally Posted By: TreeOfLife

”Different times were repeatedly set for the Lord to come and were urged upon the brethren; but the Lord showed me that they would all pass by, for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ, and that every time that was set and passed by would only weaken the faith of God’s people. For this I was charged with being the evil servant that said in his heart, “My Lord delayeth His coming.” ” (E. G. White, EW 34.1 22.1)

[TreeOfLife]

Thanks WayFinder,

Perhaps the details that you are specifying are reason enough for reviewing our doctrines as traditionally taught at many of our government accredited SDA educational institutions?:

Reguarding the fifth plague. In order to be fifth, the first, second, third, and fourth plagues would have already been poured out. These seven "bowls full of the wrath of God" follow, in sequence, the seven trumpets (Revelation 8 and 9) and the pronouncment of the victory of God's kingdom over the kingdom of the world and Satan. The bowls of wrath are poured out only on those who have received the mark of the beast and the number of his name 666. This has clearly not taken place yet; because the kingdom of the world and the working of the evil one continue to be in control of this world. By the time of the fifth plague, the holy people will know when their King will appear in the heavens, because they know the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and have listened to the testimony of the two witnesses. Both prophecy and prophets will describe what will be taking place on earth at the time of His appearing. The events which must take place before the fifth plague are: the return of the Master to His bondservants and sealing of the 144,000; the awakening and judging of the bridesmaids; the casting down of the censer (Revelation 8:3-5); the first four trumpets; the ministry of the two witnesses; the last three trumpets (of the seven), which are also called woes (first, second, third); the execution of the two witnesses and their subequent resurrection and assention into heaven; the triumph of God and His kingodom; the first four bowls of wrath; then the fifth bowl is poured out on those with the mark of the beast.

[Gibs]

Treeoflife,

Jesus comes between the 6'th and 7'th plague,

Re 16:12 ¶ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Re 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Re 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Re 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Re 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Re 16:17 ¶ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

So many people want to believe the saints are taken before the plagues and those verses kill that belief dead.

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

Thanks WayFinder,

Perhaps the details that you are specifying are reason enough for reviewing our doctrines as traditionally taught at many of our government accredited SDA educational institutions?:

Not sure what you are implying TOL? Are you disagreeing with WayFinder?

[Dr. Rich]

Treeoflife,

Jesus comes between the 6'th and 7'th plague,

Re 16:12 ¶ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Re 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Re 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Re 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Re 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Re 16:17 ¶ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

So many people want to believe the saints are taken before the plagues and those verses kill that belief dead.

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs, can you please explain to me how Jesus can come like a thief as in the days of Noah when NO ONE KNEW what was going to happen-after the 7th Trumpet blows an after the first 5 bowls or wrath and after the first 5 plagues have taken place? It is my opion that this would be impossible. Therefore, the coming like a thief is an event prior to the time of trouble in order to seal the 144k and 5 wise virgins so they can witness to the bride during the time of trouble.

[ClubV12]

Wayfinder and many others, comprise a doctrinal theology I call "1335 Futurists". These folks are always professed Adventists, actual members of the church or those who have renounced the Adventist church entirely. It is a theology uniquely based on Adventist prophecy. To wit: A re-application of portions of the 2,300 year prophecy re-applied as literal days that will take place in the future.

There are a great many variations on this theme, ranging from mild to wild. Most utilize Ellen White quotes (out of context, in my opinion) to support their theories. Others reject Ellen White altogether or at least dismiss her work to varying degrees. Of course plenty of bible verses to back up the "data". Usually presented in a logical and well written way, it's easy to "believe" if you aren't well grounded in prophecy and the 2,300 prophecy specifically.

The typical scenario is:

The Sunday law begins the "countdown" to the second coming. There is a 1260 day (literall days, not years) period, followed by a 30 day period (now were at 1290 days) and a 45 day period. Bringing the total to "1335", in the future, or "1335 Futurists". There are a dozen or more different charts on the internet with variations on this theme. Some folks are members of the Adventist church, it appears that MOST are not members, but "off shoots" to some degree.

This theology, like any good con game, contains some truth mixed with serious error! Dangerous ground here, caution is advised....

[TreeOfLife]

:)

There is Much More to Be Discovered in the Scriptures...

P Krause,

I am suggesting that perhaps there is much more for each and all of us to discover in the Holy Scriptures and that we ought to rely much less upon doctrines as traditionally taught by teachers accredited by governments created by men.

Indeed, to me the numbers 600, 60, and 6 - as in 666 - are primarily numbers being associated with various levels of imperfection and error. Indeed, in the Hebrew language the letter meaning '60' also has the word-meaning 'serpent,' (i.e. Hebr. 'samech')... Cf. also Strong's #H8346, #H8055-6, #G5516

I don't know how you may feel about those things, but so far as I am concerned there is a lot to be said about the deficiencies and imperfections incurred in consequence of any and all government accreditation...

Originally Posted By: TreeOfLife

Thanks WayFinder,

Perhaps the details that you are specifying are reason enough for reviewing our doctrines as traditionally taught at many of our government accredited SDA educational institutions?:

Not sure what you are implying TOL? Are you disagreeing with WayFinder?