Stand up and Be Counted -

[phkrause]

Excellent responses Ron

[phkrause]

Again Ron, excellent post

[Ron Amnsn]

Those Scribes and Pharisees Cheedar speaks of were all about keeping man's law, some 613 of them, spelled out in detail, binding and strictly enforced.

The 613 laws that are talked about in Judaism are all part of God's Law. Identifying and cataloging the 613 laws from the Books of Moses is credited to the Jewish sage Maimonides who lived in the 12th century after Jesus. Although Jews have added man-made laws and interpretations beyond the 613 laws, the 613 can all be found in Scripture.

By the way, if Maimonides had cataloged the rules in the New Testament, he would have found far more than he did in the Old Testament.

If you were to catalog all the rules for the Superbowl, you'd find there are many more than 613 rules governing a football game which people delight in playing and zealously watch in order to have "fun". One would think football players and fans must all be hopeless legalists!

It's amazing that folks can say the Old Testament laws are bondage when there were so few instructions in God's good and excellent Law that protected the freedom of the Israelites (as compared to the hundreds of thousands of faulty regulations and laws which Americans live under in what they call "the land of the free").

Satan has very cleverly set our hearts against the good things that God gave us in His Word.

[cheddar]

Paul's writings themselves agree with Scripture, but there are lots of traditional interpretations of Paul's writings that ignore the context Paul wrote in and which disagree with previous Scripture. If those interpretations of Paul's writings that disagree with the Old Testament were true, then we'd be required to reject Paul's writings.

So you admit that Paul's writings are to be rejected - at least you're honest. Say Hi to Dr. Rich at the next meeting.

[cheddar]

But you apparently don't remember where Peter was when he said that. He was speaking at the Jerusalem congregation about which we are told, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;" (Acts 21:20)

Your interpretation of what Peter said doesn't make sense for several reasons.

Peter was speaking to a congregation that was all living according to God's Law, and they weren't doing so as if it was bondage. The Bible tells us they were all zealous for the Law. They were keeping the Law with enthusiasm. In fact, had Peter said what you allege, he would have been risking his life. For not only would he have been lying about the Law being unbearable (contrary to the evidence provided by the lives of all the zealous law-keepers present) but he would also be calling Moses a liar. Moses wrote, "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach." (Deut 30:11) Look up the meaning of "zealous". That congregation would not have sat in silence if Peter had said that God's law was unbearable.

While Jesus himself was perfectly following God's Law, he said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matt 11:29-19)

What Peter was talking about as being an unbearable yoke was the same thing that Jesus was talking about when he said, "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger." (Matt 23:4)

[ClubV12]

All good points to the complicated rules/laws concerning the 613,,,,

and counting!!!

[cheddar]

It's amazing that folks can say the Old Testament laws are bondage when there were so few instructions in God's good and excellent Law that protected the freedom of the Israelites (as compared to the hundreds of thousands of faulty regulations and laws which Americans live under in what they call "the land of the free").

I agree with the 2nd part - The U.S. is a regulation nation and pretty soon the constitution which protects our freedom will be trampled under by the 'rule of law'.

[phkrause]

So you admit that Paul's writings are to be rejected - at least you're honest. Say Hi to Dr. Rich at the next meeting.

I don't see that at all! Not sure how you can misinterpret what Ron is saying.

[Ron Amnsn]

This is wrong on so many levels so let’s just read for clarification –

[cheddar]

There's an important question that I asked that also went unanswered.

So what's the difference between love(agape) and the Law?

Are they the same or different or what?

I can put some effort into keeping the law but I can never generate love no matter how hard I try. It is the gift of God.

This is one fact that the law-lovers refuse to acknowledge.

You place so much importance on the old testament (and I'm not throwing it away; there's alot we can learn from it) but we as Christians are supposed to be under the new testament. Belief in Jesus for salvation is a NT concept.

The commandments of Jesus supercede the commands of Moses and David. They were powerful men of God in their time but they had no concept of the gospel. The entire Jewish history was a detour on the plan of salvation. Abraham was justified by faith not law and 2000 years later Jesus came and put us back on the same path again.

[ClubV12]

That made me chuckle...

The commandments of Jesus ARE the commandments of Moses and David. There is no difference.

[cheddar]

The commandments of Jesus ARE the commandments of Moses and David. There is no difference.

...to the illiterate.

[ClubV12]

... to the ones with spiritual discernment.

[Dr. Rich]

So what's the difference between love(agape) and the Law?

Are they the same or different or what?

I can put some effort into keeping the law but I can never generate love no matter how hard I try. It is the gift of God.

This is one fact that the law-lovers refuse to acknowledge.

What is the difference between Common Law and Statute Law?

[Dr. Rich]

Hint: Man made Statute law has a birth, life and death while Natural Law better known as Common Law, always has been and will always be.