Andrews U. Offers

[skyblue888]

I have said it many times before and I will say it again. The reason why we, the professed people of God today, seem to be in a fog of bewilderment can be traced back to the rejection of the 1888 message.

Speaking of that most precious message, Mrs. White wrote, "The light that is to lighten the whole earth with its glory was resisted, and BY THE ACTION OF OUR OWN BRETHREN has been in a great degree kept away from the world." 1 S.M.235. *emphasis mine

Not only has it been kept away from the world but from the church as well. And, she warned, "The prejudices and opinions that prevailed at Minneapolis are NOT DEAD BY ANY MEANS; the seeds sown there in some hearts are READY TO SPRING UP and bear a like harvest." T.M.467. *emphasis mine

The 1888 message presented in clear, distinct lines what it is we need to meditate upon, and which would result in true spiritual formation:

"Habitually dwelling upon Christ and His all-sufficient merits increases faith, quickens the power of spiritual discernment, strengthens the desire to be like Him, and brings an earnestness into prayer that makes it efficacious." Gospel Worker, 166.

If that were the only statement from the SoP that we could find on 1888 it would be sufficient to show how simple and clear that message of righteousness by faith truly was. But in the SoP there is a pletora of statements emphasizing the necessity of continually looking to Jesus, trusting in His all-sufficient merits alone in order to find the approval of God, teaching that the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the fountain that has been opened for sin. This fountain of the merits of Christ is not for those who think they are rich spiritually and in need of nothing but for the poor in spirit:

"The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the poor. NOT TO THE SPIRITUALLY PROUD, THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE RICH AND IN NEED OF NOTHING, is it revealed, but to those who are humble and contrite. One FOUNTAIN has been opened for sin, a fountain for the POOR IN SPIRIT." D.A.300.

"Those who know that they cannot possibly save themselves, or of themselves do any righteous action, are the ones who appreciate the help that Christ can bestow. They are the poor in spirit, whom He declares to be blessed." M.B.7.

"When we trust God fully, when we rely upon the merits of Jesus as a sin-pardoning Saviour, we shall receive all the help that we can desire." P.P.431.

"Faith is the condition upon which God has seen fit to promise pardon to sinners. Not that there is any virtue in faith whereby salvation is merited, but because faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy (fountain) provided for sin." F.W.100,101.

Conclusion:

"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner CAN NO MORE BE SAVED than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93. *emphasis mine

Unless we habitually dwell upon Christ and His all-sufficient merits, there will be no spiritual formation for it is the only way for us to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to help our infirmities and to form a Christian character.

This last statement is found under the subtitle, "Rejecting The Light," in 1888 from T.M.93.

sky

[M. T. Cross]

I am beginning to wonder if it isn't like back in the days paganism got it's foot in the door of the true church and became a kosher thing by men.

I would almost bet the wording of the teachings runs the same as the occult it came from. You can call it kosher but I don't want NOTHING to do with it.

[Gibs]

EC,

I'm merely making a wake up call and hoping some will heed the times and errors that have been coming in before it is eternally too late.

No my mission is not one for popularity neither was Jesus's or any of the Apostles that all got martyred except John and he was excilled.

Just don't crucify me until the law of the land gets around to where it would be legal.

I'm just a fighter for the purer days of SDAdventism.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

EC,

I'm merely making a wake up call and hoping some will heed the times and errors that have been coming in before it is eternally too late.

No my mission is not one for popularity neither was Jesus's or any of the Apostles that all got martyred except John and he was excilled.

Just don't crucify me until the law of the land gets around to where it would be legal.

I'm just a fighter for the purer days of SDAdventism.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I give up....

Its pretty pointless to discuss something with someone that keeps coming back with the same cliche by rote answers that have nothing to do with what you said to them.

No where there did you acknowledge any of the things I mentioned in my post.

Crucify you? Seriously? Why would that even enter into anything.

[Woody]

Quote:

Anything can be used for good and anything can be used for evil Gibs, its a matter of intent.

This is such a profound statement - it might deserve an entire thread of it's own.

I would love to go down this path.

Thanks for making this statement. It's got me a thinkin'

[Woody]

Quote:

I give up....

I don't blame you EC. It's like talking to a robot.

What we come here for is for intellectual discussions rather then hearing inappropriate babble and mantras. If one can't hold an intellectual discussion with someone - it's kind of fruitless.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

Anything can be used for good and anything can be used for evil Gibs, its a matter of intent.

This is such a profound statement - it might deserve an entire thread of it's own.

I would love to go down this path.

Thanks for making this statement. It's got me a thinkin'

Intent is everything Woody. IMO it is the root of how anything turns out. If Gibs manner of spiritual growth works for him, thats awesome. If you search through all of these various threads on Spiritual Formation, you will find that I have not once, never ever, critisized him for his manner of worship and spiritual growth in his own personal life. But some people may find that ineffective for them, others may want to go deeper,and if there intent is for spiritual growth, if there intent truly is to walk closer to the Divine, then that will be the outcome. I would go so far as to say it does not matter what religion you are, what spiritual path you find yourself called to, if your intent truly and honestly is one of honest seeking for truth, seeking to get closer to being the person you truly should be, to find the light of the Divine in your life - that is where you will get.

My objection is to someone telling others how they should and should not practice their own personal walk with their God.

[Woody]

Thanks EmptyCross - some good thoughts here.

If I hear you correctly - you are saying what is in the HEART is what matters. And ONLY God can judge that.

[Woody]

Here's a good thought from a well known author:

[CoAspen]

I'm merely making a wake up call and hoping some will heed the times and errors that have been coming in before it is eternally too late. So, what are the errors?

No my mission is not one for popularity neither was Jesus's or any of the Apostles that all got martyred except John and he was excilled. So what is your mission?

Just don't crucify me until the law of the land gets around to where it would be legal.Crusify..a rather high opinion?

I'm just a fighter for the purer days of SDAdventism.What was/were the purer days?

[Woody]

I'm merely making a wake up call and hoping some will heed the times and errors that have been coming in before it is eternally too late. So, what are the errors?

No my mission is not one for popularity neither was Jesus's or any of the Apostles that all got martyred except John and he was excilled. So what is your mission?

Just don't crucify me until the law of the land gets around to where it would be legal.Crusify..a rather high opinion?

I'm just a fighter for the purer days of SDAdventism.What was/were the purer days?

You are more patient than I CoA.

I can already see the mantras being written.

[Gibs]

"What is the errors" Golly your're tripping over them all the time.

"What is your mission?" To wake up the sleepy.

"Crucify.. a rather high opinion." There's lot's of ways it is done.

"What was/were the purer days?". We would have to go back to the church Jesus Christ set up and the Apostles.

Then just like one Apostle stated it,

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

That creeping compromise deteriation has taken it's toll to what we have today, and don't all see a thorough reform again is needed?

A solemn realization for sure!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[lazarus]

Quote:

What are you studying,laz? Heading for a degree or just for fun?

Ms in Pastoral Counseling, hoping to switch to the combined Ms/phd program next semester. Lots of neuro-linguistic programing, meditation, and Sigmund Freud all in a Jesuit setting!

[lazarus]

So, what are the errors?

The erroneous, wrong, bad, and false errors of course. Don't forget the wicked, deceptive and pervasive, and pernicious errors. Then there are the subtle almost overmasting dastardly errors. If you were not in error you would see the errors that are so erroneously around us in error. No doubt you will accuse me of error but you sir are in error of the most erroneous kind. Error begets error and so you are in my mind a child of errordom. You are error!!!!!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

So, what are the errors?

The erroneous, wrong, bad, and false errors of course. Don't forget the wicked, deceptive and pervasive, and pernicious errors. Then there are the subtle almost overmasting dastardly errors. If you were not in error you would see the errors that are so erroneously around us in error. No doubt you will accuse me of error but you sir are in error of the most erroneous kind. Error begets error and so you are in my mind a child of errordom. You are error!!!!!

that's erroneous.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

What are you studying,laz? Heading for a degree or just for fun?

Ms in Pastoral Counseling, hoping to switch to the combined Ms/phd program next semester. Lots of neuro-linguistic programing, meditation, and Sigmund Freud all in a Jesuit setting!

GASP!!! Not the JESUITS!!!!!!!

[Woody]

Quote:

What are you studying,laz? Heading for a degree or just for fun?

Ms in Pastoral Counseling, hoping to switch to the combined Ms/phd program next semester. Lots of neuro-linguistic programing, meditation, and Sigmund Freud all in a Jesuit setting!

Yeah. I feared we had one of 'em in our presence.

[Windsor]

Is there a mod around to change the topic title? The misspelling is enough to give some of us perfectionists a heart attack.

[Windsor]

I am undecided as to spiritual formation. However I wish they had more going into Archaeology and the ancient cultures and to really get back into deep Biblical studies.

Southern Adventist University has an archaeology program. This was very much promoted last fall during the Archaeology Seminar meetings (seen on Hope Channel) held by Dr. Michael Hasel (Professor of Near Eastern Studies and Archaeology at SAU) and Dr. Ron Clouzet (Religion Professor at Andrews) the latter of whom was the main speaker for Net 2011. It was an SAU student who found a broken piece of pottery containing an inscription of the oldest Hebrew writing discovered to date.

[Kevin H]

EC,

I'm just a fighter for the purer days of SDAdventism.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I think I missed those days when I studied Church history. Our church was started by people who were kicked out of their churches because those churches wanted to go back to the purer days of their church, and these breathern got together and formed a church with a few pillars, but beyond those as long as they did not become fanatical, they were free to dissagree.

Our problems seem to rise from people fighting for purer days.In 1888 people tried to go back to purer days. In 1919- 1923 we wanted to go back to purer days and threw out Mrs. White's hand picked and groomed General Conference President, demoted W. W. Prescott and allowed Willie to keep his office but stripped his office of it's authority, so that basically he was fired but got an office and paycheck. And in the 1950s we tried to become purer and fell into the two heresys of so called "Historic Adventisism" (which was basically one trend in Adventism) and "New Theology"

Hey, when you are trying to make a purer church out of the people who were kicked out of their churches to make their former churches purer, you have a poor foundation to build on.

However, it appears that God's church does it's best not when people want a purer church, but when they are willing to study the Bible in a credible mannor and willing to dissagree but in a spirit of love.

[Gibs]

windsor,

It's ok, we are just seeing what Andrews U. and others offer that so many find pleasing perhaps.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

I am undecided as to spiritual formation. However I wish they had more going into Archaeology and the ancient cultures and to really get back into deep Biblical studies.

Southern Adventist University has an archaeology program. This was very much promoted last fall during the Archaeology Seminar meetings (seen on Hope Channel) held by Dr. Michael Hasel (Professor of Near Eastern Studies and Archaeology at SAU) and Dr. Ron Clouzet (Religion Professor at Andrews) the latter of whom was the main speaker for Net 2011. It was an SAU student who found a broken piece of pottery containing an inscription of the oldest Hebrew writing discovered to date.

Yes, I'm glad to hear the update but I am aware and proud of them. Also Andrews has the Horn Archaeological Museum and a lot of my classes at Andrews was in that field. I am a little conserned that the Adventist Theological Society thoughts keep them from getting as much out of the program as they can, however they are definately on the right track and I admire those programs. Besides, Southern has Lynn Wood Hall, and he is one of my thological heros. I wish more were studing into this. Thank you for sharing.

[lazarus]

However, it appears that God's church does it's best not when people want a purer church, but when they are willing to study the Bible in a credible mannor and willing to dissagree but in a spirit of love.

[lazarus]

GASP!!! Not the JESUITS!!!!!!!

One of my career goals is to get on one of those lists which appear on those websites that seek to out "liberal" pastors. If anyone has any tips of how please PM me.

[CoAspen]

"What is the errors" Golly your're tripping over them all the time.

"What is your mission?" To wake up the sleepy.

"Crucify.. a rather high opinion." There's lot's of ways it is done.

"What was/were the purer days?". We would have to go back to the church Jesus Christ set up and the Apostles.

Then just like one Apostle stated it,

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

That creeping compromise deteriation has taken it's toll to what we have today, and don't all see a thorough reform again is needed?

A solemn realization for sure!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

What we have here is generic 'sound bites', nothing specific!!

If you feel strongly about something, give real answers and specifics of what you are talking about. One example...you give us no answer of what the 'errors' are. Do you know what they are? Or, perhaps it is just rhetoric! You want to be taken serious, then get serious with answering the questions. You have made the accusations, back it up!!!!