Andrews U. Offers

[John317]

Yet it's important to consider the fact that not once did Ellen White ever suggest that anyone ought to separate from the Seventh-day Adventist Church. She condemned such thinking and said that those who encouraged people to leave the church, or who taught that the SDA Church was "fallen," were not being led by God but by another spirit.

Even during the time she didn't believe the GC was right in what they did, Ellen White followed their directions to go to Australia in 1891. She wasn't sure at the time that God wanted her to go, but not long after she got there, she became convinced that He did.

[Gibs]

EGW did go further on this about the church and notice the date on this one,

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. {UL 315.5}

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls. The glory of God has penetrated the prison walls, flooding with glorious beams of heavenly light the darkest dungeon. His saints may suffer, but their sufferings will, like the apostles of old, spread their faith and win souls to Christ and glorify His holy name. The bitterest opposition expressed by those who hate God's great moral standard of righteousness should not and will not shake the steadfast soul who trusts fully in God. . . . {UL 315.6}

They that will be doers of the word are building securely, and the tempest and storm of persecution will not shake their foundation, because their souls are rooted to the eternal Rock.--Letter 108, Oct. 28, 1886, to her older sister and her husband who had not accepted the Sabbath truth." {UL 315.7}

That has ever been the truth since apostasy came in and the Papacy was formed.

Man abandoned Him as it's organizer and ordainer and all break offs from that first apostasy men also set up their own organization and made themselves it's head. Men get so they do not see the error of their way.

The church needs to be righted so He is it's master again. They have even made it their own corporation of the world. Sad day.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I do get tired of correcting the twisted quotes you keep coming up with Gibs. Quotes out of context primarily, a sentence here, a paragraph there, cleverly designed to mislead.

No different than many other Christian groups, off shoots and fanatics doing the same thing with bible verses. Professing great piety all the while. At times, it literally makes me sick to my stomach.

It is noteworthy we NEVER see any quotes about the need to press together from those who have left the Church and are calling on others to do the same.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

That quote about was all of that letter that is in the writings, how much more do you need? What more did you want said to convince you? I did not twist anything, it is exactly what is recorded for all to read in her writings.

Yes some of these things are certainly disheartening, but it shows how man is easily taken and deceived.

There is no pressing together of error and truth, the truth I will be with and stand up with and uphold.

Professing great piety? Those who claim to be Holy? Who here is doing that? I hsdn't noticed any myself.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I've read those quotes many times Brother Gibs, by themself, as presented on this thread, the do not represent correctly the situation, circumstances and intent of what Sister White was trying to convey.

[Woody]

Quote:

No different than many other Christian groups, off shoots and fanatics doing the same thing with bible verses. Professing great piety all the while. At times, it literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I am with you ClubV. But my way of coping is when a couple on here start quoting scripture - I quickly see if there are scripture and just skip over each one because you can be assured in advance that they will be out of context and having NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Try it - if might help your peptic stomach.

[ClubV12]

Good tip Woody. You know the only reason to enlighten, correct or put into perspective a quote or verse is primarily for the sake of the readers of this forum. It certainly isn't for Brother Gibs enlightenment, that door is closed, bolted, locked down and no way, no one is going to open it even a crack.

[Woody]

Good tip Woody. You know the only reason to enlighten, correct or put into perspective a quote or verse is primarily for the sake of the readers of this forum. It certainly isn't for Brother Gibs enlightenment, that door is closed, bolted, locked down and no way, no one is going to open it even a crack.

[John317]

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. {UL 315.5}

As with the Bible, we need to consider everything written on the topic and not merely take one or two quotes. For instance, Ellen White also wrote:

Quote:

The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. . . . {LDE 51.2}

I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be.--2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893). {LDE 51.3}

I tell you, my brethren, the Lord has an organized body through whom He will work. . . . When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God's commandment-keeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track.--3SM 17, 18 (1893). {LDE 51.4}

God Will Set Everything in Order

There is no need to doubt, to be fearful that the work will not succeed. God is at the head of the work, and He will set everything in order. If matters need adjusting at the head of the work God will attend to that, and work to right every wrong. Let us have faith that God is going to carry the noble ship which bears the people of God safely into port.--2SM 390 (1892). {LDE 52.1}

Has God no living church? He has a church, but it is the church militant, not the church triumphant. We are sorry that there are defective members, that there are tares amid the wheat. . . . Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard.--TM 45, 49 (1893). {LDE 52.2}

The bulwarks of Satan will never triumph. Victory will attend the third angel's message. As the Captain of the Lord's host tore down the walls of Jericho, so will the Lord's commandment-keeping people triumph, and all opposing elements be defeated.--TM 410 (1898). {LDE 52.3}

[Gibs]

John,,

One thing I see in all this is that she had the idea that that church wasn't of the world in short. But something dreadful has happened that the church wants to bring in the world and have approval of it. And the scripture echoes her statement about the people want "preach unto me smooth things" Now the Word,

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

The message is practically the same in all the churches of the world today, "just believe and you are saved". That Jesus done it all for you and some even have it once saved always saved. That no one can overcome sin so why try. Just believe and Jesus knows you can't and He will save you.

The work will succeed but it isn't a false gospel that will finish it, that is adding to the problem.

Let me tell you this there is ministries springing up preaching the truth of things now and most are non denominational and most keep and advocate Sabbath observance.

I usually hear a dedicated minister every evening almost of shortwave freq. 3215 at 9:00 pm est and it is Pastor Butch Paugh. He is a hillbilly preacher in WV and he gives it out straight and all his are Sabbath keepers. He is heard around the world and almost all of the US. He can also be heard on your computer. These ministries are doing the work the apostate churches should have been doing. I truly think these are finishing the work.

Well it is really the preaching that needs to be heard from every pulpit.

Adventists today won't even to a very great extent listen to the ones in their own camp that preach it straight. They are not preaching a feel good message and is not wanted. Well it is disgusting to me and has been for some time.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Thanks John, I was just to tired to make yet another rebuttal.

:)

[Woody]

Quote:

Adventists today won't even to a very great extent listen to the ones in their own camp that preach it straight.

Unfortunately Gibs - you are only listening to that which tickles your ears. The straight truth is what you are avoiding.

Our prophet warned us that this would happen:

Quote:

"Therefore, they call good evil, and evil good." {18MR 327.1}

[lazarus]

Wonderful times, it had a profound impact in leading me toward a spiritual quest to really know God. Not that I would recommend anyone attend Georgetown U, but it illustrates how God can find and deliver truth to a sincere seeker even in the most unlikely environment.

Our God always knows what he is doing. His work is everywhere to be seen. Thanks for your testimony. I'm meeting some powerful people that God is using as I study at Loyola.

[Tom Wetmore]

I recently read an interesting turn of the phrase consistent with this perspective.

"God wants us to be part of the body of Christ not just body parts."

Something to think about...

[skyblue888]

Gibs wrote:

One thing I see in all this is that she had the idea that that church wasn't of the world in short. But something dreadful has happened that the church wants to bring in the world and have approval of it. And the scripture echoes her statement about the people want "preach unto me smooth things" Now the Word,

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

________________

In 1901 Mrs. White wrote these solemn words,

"The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law, when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world." Christ's Object Lessons,316.

That same year she wrote, "We may have to remain in this world because of insubordination many more years." Evangelism,696.

Again, in April of the same year, in Volume 8 of the Testimonies, p.247, we read, "Our position in the world is not what it should be. We are far from where we should have been had our Christian experience been in harmony with the light and the opportunities given us, had we from the beginning constantly pressed onward and upward. Had we walked in the light that has been given us, had we followed on to know the Lord, our path would have grown brighter and brighter. But many of those who have had special light are so conformed to the world that they can scarcely be distinguished from worldlings. They do not stand forth as God's peculiar people, chosen and precious. It is difficult to discern between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not."

Two years later, in 1903, she wrote:

"The message to the church of the Laodiceans applies especially to the people of God today. It is a message to professing Christians who have become so much like the world that no difference can be seen." RH Aug.10,1903 (7 B.C.959)

Then, four years later, in 1907, she wrote this solemn warning:

"The self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." Testimonies to Ministers,481.

11 years prior to this, in 1896, Mrs. White had declared that as a people we had lost our spiritual bearings:

"The people to whom God has entrusted eternal interests, the depositories of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole world, have lost their bearings. Has God made a mistake? Are those at the heart of the work chosen vessels that can receive the golden oil, which the heavenly messengers, represented as the two olive trees, empty into the golden tubes to replenish the lamps? Are those in Battle Creek, the men and women that God has appointed to do the most solemn work ever given to mortals, in partnership with Jesus Christ in His great firm? Are those whom He has bidden to communicate the light from the burning lamps to others, that the regions of darkness may have the opportunity to hear the saving message, doing their duty?... We may be sure that when the Holy Spirit is poured out those who did not appreciate the early rain will not see or understand the value of the latter rain." Testimonies to Ministers,397-399.

Considering the fact that the work should have been finished a few years after 1844, (G.C.457,458), is our position in the world today what it should be? Is our position in the world today better or worse than it was a century ago?

sky

[ClubV12]

Good post Tom,,,, "body parts", very fitting. Gave me a chuckle, at the same time, a serious thought.

Are we part of the body of believers, or an infected body part?

[Gibs]

Quote:

Adventists today won't even to a very great extent listen to the ones in their own camp that preach it straight.

Unfortunately Gibs - you are only listening to that which tickles your ears. The straight truth is what you are avoiding.

Our prophet warned us that this would happen:

Quote:

"Therefore, they call good evil, and evil good." {18MR 327.1}

Straight testimony preaching that is scarce as hens teeth now is not "itching ears" messages. It is truth and cuts and that is what most don't want. "Preach unto me smooth things" is the call today and they get what they cry for. A saved in sin messaage which settles them on their "lees" all the stronger!

Like EGW I hesitate not to tell you we must be overcomers here now in this our short lifetime. This only is the time to make your calling and election sure.

All may "download" His Divine Nature that each can be an overcomer. He in you and all things are possibe, even overcoming our sinning now!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Gibs wrote:

One thing I see in all this is that she had the idea that that church wasn't of the world in short. But something dreadful has happened that the church wants to bring in the world and have approval of it. And the scripture echoes her statement about the people want "preach unto me smooth things" Now the Word,

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

________________

In 1901 Mrs. White wrote these solemn words,

"The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law, when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world." Christ's Object Lessons,316.

That same year she wrote, "We may have to remain in this world because of insubordination many more years." Evangelism,696.

Again, in April of the same year, in Volume 8 of the Testimonies, p.247, we read, "Our position in the world is not what it should be. We are far from where we should have been had our Christian experience been in harmony with the light and the opportunities given us, had we from the beginning constantly pressed onward and upward. Had we walked in the light that has been given us, had we followed on to know the Lord, our path would have grown brighter and brighter. But many of those who have had special light are so conformed to the world that they can scarcely be distinguished from worldlings. They do not stand forth as God's peculiar people, chosen and precious. It is difficult to discern between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not."

Two years later, in 1903, she wrote:

"The message to the church of the Laodiceans applies especially to the people of God today. It is a message to professing Christians who have become so much like the world that no difference can be seen." RH Aug.10,1903 (7 B.C.959)

Then, four years later, in 1907, she wrote this solemn warning:

"The self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." Testimonies to Ministers,481.

11 years prior to this, in 1896, Mrs. White had declared that as a people we had lost our spiritual bearings:

"The people to whom God has entrusted eternal interests, the depositories of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole world, have lost their bearings. Has God made a mistake? Are those at the heart of the work chosen vessels that can receive the golden oil, which the heavenly messengers, reprensented as the two olive trees, empty into the golden tubes to replenish the lamps? Are those in Battle Creek, the men and women that God has appointed to do the most solemn work ever given to mortals, in partnership with Jesus Christ in His great firm? Are those whom He has bidden to communicate the light from the burning lamps to others, that the regions of darkness may have the opportunity to hear the saving message, doing their duty?... We may be sure that when the Holy Spirit is poured out those who did not appreciate the early rain will not see or understand the value of the latter rain." Testimonies to Ministers,397-399.

Considering the fact that the work should have been finished a few years after 1844, (G.C.457,458), is our position in the world today what it should be? Is our position in the world today better or worse than it was a century ago?

sky

Yes Sky,

Very revealing quotes that show the falling away had gotten in before her time was up. Thanks, All should appreciate.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

For this discussion I feel like a definition of legalism would be needed. To me legalism is the constant tearing down of the church and a focus on how we are just not good enough. The focus on the Law is so great that a message of the need to know Jesus is clouded out.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Quote:

Adventists today won't even to a very great extent listen to the ones in their own camp that preach it straight.

Unfortunately Gibs - you are only listening to that which tickles your ears. The straight truth is what you are avoiding.

Our prophet warned us that this would happen:

Straight testimony preaching that is scarce as hens teeth now is not "itching ears" messages. It is truth and cuts and that is what most don't want. "Preach unto me smooth things" is the call today and they get what they cry for. A saved in sin messaage which settles them on their "lees" all the stronger!

Like EGW I hesitate not to tell you we must be overcomers here now in this our short lifetime. This only is the time to make your calling and election sure.

All may "download" His Divine Nature that each can be an overcomer. He in you and all things are possibe, even overcoming our sinning now!

Gibs

_______________

Excellent reply!

"In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not also to become partakers of that fullness and is it not thus, and thus only, that we can overcome as He overcame?" E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7, p.907.

And that is what it means to be a partaker of Christ's divine nature through faith, by daily appropriating to ourselves the all-sufficient merits of His shed blood.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

This only is the time to make your calling and election sure.

And do tell us how we do that.

By the works that we allow Jesus to do in our lives?

Or by the work that He already did on the cross?

[skyblue888]

If we continually rely solely upon the merits of the cross for our acceptance with God, He will work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure, thus making our calling and election sure.

sky

[ClubV12]

I wish you guys calling for folks to leave the "church" would show some consistency of what IS the "Church".

In one post you declare it to be where ever two or three are gathered, and thats true IF you understand the circumstances surrounding those believers. It is NOT true when it's two or three off shoots plotting on how to scatter more of God's people.

In another post you use the term "Church" to show that the Adventist Church, that organized body of believers, is in apostasy.

So which is it? Those who have LEFT the "church" or those who are IN the church?

... and while were at it, how come you guys calling for folks to leave the church NEVER use any quotes where Sister White says "press together". Why not? Because it doesn't fit your agenda of "pick and choose" and "out of context" to promote your dark work.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

To you I left the church, and for me I left a structure that became so because of all the incoming errors. I no longer could get any edification as there wasn't any. It became the smooooooth things and it turned hard into Laodicean. It continues to become more and more embedded in it.

We have Church when error isn't being taught and He can be Present in the midst.

Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Note "must be", next verse,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So it behooves me to abide by that. Also the above let's us know it don't have to be but 2 or 3.

The Truth is being proclaimed world wide but too many have left the ministry of the vital Truth of Salvation. The True laborers have become few and the harvest needs to be completed.

Many smaller ministries are now springing up doing this work now and it can be seen it is of His Spirit as the harmony of teaching is more together than could be if it were of men.

Many of these are yet in Adventism and many separated out of Adventism. Also Many are coming on all the time NOT of Adventism and the great share of them are Sabbath keeping.

These all know to not be preaching messages for itching ears as foretold in the end time.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Now is not the time for "smooooooth things" messages. The cutting truths must be proclaimed now as never before as the work and all is soon to close.

These days we are now in are equal to the days of Noah just before he and the saved entered the ark.

It is time now to PRESS TOGETHER IN THE TRUTH!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

It is time now to PRESS TOGETHER IN THE TRUTH!

And that is what we in the SDA church are doing. Some will leave and go along with the smooth talkers in the world. But if you are interested in Truth - I know of no other place to obtain it except for the SDA church.