Andrews U. Offers

[Gibs]

Quote:

It is time now to PRESS TOGETHER IN THE TRUTH!

And that is what we in the SDA church are doing. Some will leave and go along with the smooth talkers in the world. But if you are interested in Truth - I know of no other place to obtain it except for the SDA church.

That is where I must disagree strongly. The message of Adentism is just as smooooooth as the other churchs of the world. there is hardly any difference to be found. To most now to find they must be overcomers is a sharp cutting message itching ears don't want. The True cutting Message Woody is refused by the majority today.

The Sabbath dropped and Adventism would be heralded as one of them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

That is where I must disagree strongly. The message of Adentism is just as smooooooth as the other churchs of the world. there is hardly any difference to be found. To most now to find they must be overcomers is a sharp cutting message itching ears don't want. The True cutting Message Woody is refused by the majority today.

The Sabbath dropped and Adventism would be heralded as one of them.

That is NOT what I'm seeing right now! There are lots of distractions out there but what I'm seeing rising strongly are a greater understanding and interest of the sanctuary and the Investigative Judgment and a strong understanding of the Islamic movement in prophecy. I was just talking with a longtime Revelation student/teacher about it the other day. The topics are coming up repeatedly.

What I am seeing is a renewed interest in prophecy as its being joined to the everlasting Gospel as GOOD NEWS, not the understanding that a couple of decades ago dreaded our people into fear of the future and into a legalistic following of our Saviour.

[Gail]

And those messages are including the power of Christ in the personal life and a message of His overcoming sin through you, as part of what His merits have and ARE accomplishing in His people.

This spiritual formation subject is but one of those distractions. Each distraction that comes along takes away some with it, tis true. But if your eyes are on the TRUE disciplines as the Bible outlines, you will not be swept away by this.

I've said this often to our friend BIbleOnly, that the picture is bigger than this or that. We need to think of a much bigger picture.

[skyblue888]

Gibs, I appreciate your zeal and I am sure I am not the only one who does. I believe you are truly genuine.

Please consider the following:

After the crucifixion of Christ, the Lord filled His disciples with the fullness of the Spirit. What was their message? "Come out of the Jewish church?" No, it wasn't. In the book Christ's Object Lessons, pp.218,308, Mrs. White makes it crystal clear that the time after the crucifixion of Christ was a time of added probation for the Jewish church. What was their message? She says that it was the offer of salvation, the offer of pardon, through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, even for crucifying the Lord of glory.

So the last call to the church today is not one of condemnation any more than it was for the Jewish church after the crucifixion of Christ but the offer of pardon (for having crucified the messages that were entrusted to us), and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit through faith in the all-sufficient merits of a crucified and risen Saviour

This last message of mercy to the church is to be given in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God. If rejected again, then probation will close on the church and the bearers of the message will be forced to turn to the world and it will swell into the loud cry.

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Gail, the true gospel to be preached around the world before Jesus comes is NOT the "Good News Gospel about Jesus", but exactly what Jesus said it is as found in Matthew 24. It's the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. Do you know what that is? Does anyone here know what that is besides Gibs? And NO, it's not about being saved by grace or righteous by faith either.

The one Jesus taught can be found in Matthew 19 and Rev. 12:17

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, I appreciate your zeal and I am sure I am not the only one who does. I believe you are truly genuine.

Please consider the following:

After the crucifixion of Christ, the Lord filled His disciples with the fullness of the Spirit. What was their message? "Come out of the Jewish church?" No, it wasn't. In the book Christ's Object Lessons, pp.218,308, Mrs. White makes it crystal clear that the time after the crucifixion of Christ was a time of added probation for the Jewish church. What was their message? She says that it was the offer of salvation, the offer of pardon, through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, even for crucifying the Lord of glory.

So the last call to the church today is not one of condemnation any more than it was for the Jewish church after the crucifixion of Christ but the offer of pardon (for having crucified the messages that were entrusted to us), and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit through faith in the all-sufficient merits of a crucified and risen Saviour

This last message of mercy to the church is to be given in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God. If rejected again, then probation will close on the church and the bearers of the message will be forced to turn to the world and it will swell into the loud cry.

sky

I do not agree as EGW lied. True, Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples as found in Jn. 20:21-22 and not in Acts 2. But Jesus actually made it crystal clear that Israel/Jews were toast as found by the fig tree dying and what Jesus said in Matthew 21:43. Also, Jesus sent His disciples to the whole world, so both Jews and Gentiles were included which means that Saul/Paul was not needed.

There is no such thing as an offer for any so called "pardon" because NO ONE can be saved by grace or become righteous by faith. Those things are lies. Jesus never taught or said anything about either.

[Gibs]

Sky,

The time for the Jewish Church ended at the end of the 70'th week of yrs. Then Jesus Christ set up His Church, Ekklesia, the called out ones. The Messianic Jews were called out of the old at the allotted time for it. The ones who remained were the ones who did not receive Him as the Messiah. He stated the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. At the same time the Gentiles were called and the Gospel went to them also, they are grafted in as the wild branches, the Messianic Jews are the natural branches.

The church went on until apostasy came in and again the true Church came out into the reformation. It had to as the structure could not be changed It looks like the same to me now, the true Church must pull out of what can not be changed. It is called a Remnant as the remnant is but a small piece of what it once was.

I don't coerce anyone to follow me, His Spirit must be the guide. It is a hurting situation but change the denomination it will not be done, just as the reformers could not put out the apostasy.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Thanks for those comments Gail, it is refreshing to hear a voice of reason amongst the seemingly endless cries of those espousing false theories. Interesting that there is no consensus of opinion on the various theories and yet each one is SO sure they have the "truth". Distractions indeed...

No question, those that are pressing together are seeing a much bigger picture than these "side issues" that keep coming up.

[Gibs]

And those messages are including the power of Christ in the personal life and a message of His overcoming sin through you, as part of what His merits have and ARE accomplishing in His people.

This spiritual formation subject is but one of those distractions. Each distraction that comes along takes away some with it, tis true. But if your eyes are on the TRUE disciplines as the Bible outlines, you will not be swept away by this.

I've said this often to our friend BIbleOnly, that the picture is bigger than this or that. We need to think of a much bigger picture.

The bigger picture is that it is not going to be corrected but will wax worse, check my comment to Sky above. It hasn't gotten to the place yet in all congregations some edification can't be had but it sure has here in all our local ones even in surrounding towns. You are in a different division and mybe a better one of the confereces in it, I don't know.

The ones with the straight testimony are fast being of any influece on the people as they are strongly derided and being put down and let me tell you, they are the very few.

Gail we fought hard here and for many years and this could not be stopped. We saw the ire of the dragon in some of the pastors and many of us disfellowshipped for our witness.

I had after awhile no friends in the local church even though some came to me and told me I was in the right that things in the church are not right.

Well before they hated me Jesus said they hated me. I faced several of the highest ones in our conference including the president at the time and they left speachless as they didn't have no come back. Gail it isn't easy I can tell you that.

His Blessings

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

! seem to remember someone who had the straight truth and lived by EGW quotes, well more than one, but this one died in a fire and took many with him. It should be a warning to all, stick with the Bible first, following no 'man', but the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If that is our focus, we will not see the mote in our neighbors eye but seek to remove the beam from our own.

This forum seems to be attracting alot of folks with a focus that leads one to wonder.......

[Woody]

Quote:

I faced several of the highest ones in our conference including the president at the time and they left speachless as they didn't have no come back.

I must say that I too am speechless most of the time when I read your posts and I suspect for the same reason of your leaders in your conference.

[Dr. Rich]

Colorado Aspen, why not make it even better by following only the OT and the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses? How can one go wrong with that? Didn't Jesus warn even His own disciples that in their life time someone would come and say they were 'sent by Jesus' (of Christ) and they would even say that Jesus was the Christ--but they would deceive MANY!

So who do you supose that could be? Do you know if you have been deceived? Ha Ha, well of course not or that would not truely being deceived.

Didn't Jesus say that Satan would sow the seeds of the weeds right after Jesus left and that NO ONE WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE (they were deceived) until just before harvest time? Huh? Well? Again, what makes you think(everyone here) that you have not been deceived?

[ClubV12]

Of course it will get worse, and still worse than that Gibs! How "worse" will it get?

SO worse, it will appear as the Church is about to fall, but it does not. Hasn't yet, won't, still here, going through to the end.

All this "worse" so many stay focused on is nothing more than prophecy being fulfilled.

I won't get distracted by all the side issues, I'm staying focused on Jesus.

Woody, I totally know where your coming from on being "speechless". Some statements, questions are just SO "off the wall" I to am left speechless. It's a head scatcher how to respond to such ridiculousness at times. :)

[CoAspen]

[Tom Wetmore]

Good post Tom,,,, "body parts", very fitting. Gave me a chuckle, at the same time, a serious thought.

Are we part of the body of believers, or an infected body part?

I visualized it as the scene of a disaster scene with random dismembered body parts scattered about in bloody chaos...

[doug yowell]

Of course it will get worse, and still worse than that Gibs! How "worse" will it get?

Worser and worser until it reaches the state of worsest!

[Gibs]

Doug & Club,

Just what would it have to be like for you to see that the church has fallen. I'm thinking you would NEVER see that it had or ever would. You are going to stick to it no matter what.

I believe if it hasn't already it is down so bad it's extremely doubtful it can get back to tolerable with the Lord.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[doug yowell]

I visualized it as the scene of a disaster scene with random dismembered body parts scattered about in bloody chaos...

That's pretty dark.

[doug yowell]

Doug & Club,

Just what would it have to be like for you to see that the church has fallen. I'm thinking you would NEVER see that it had or ever would. You are going to stick to it no matter what.

I believe if it hasn't already it is down so bad it's extremely doubtful it can get back to tolerable with the Lord.

I understand where you're coming from,Gibs.We seem to be on a definite downward slide, but I think much of your pessimism is fueled by your forgetfulness of the past workings of a God who hates to see anyone lost.

Have you forgotten the apostasy of Israel that occurred just after the miraculous Divine meeting at Sinai? Have you forgotten the stories of the hundreds of years of Israel's spiritual ups and downs during the times of the judges? Have you forgotten the slide of Israel into spiritual darkness just 2 generations after the glory years of David and Solomon? Have you forgotten the number of times that God forgave his wayward people and took them back? And the hundreds of years He spent wrestling for their affections during the times of the kings? And the 490 years that He granted a slimmed down version of Israel just after they began their return and reformation from captivity? Do you forget the depths which God's remnant people had sunk when their leaders, both spiritual and governmental,actually set up visible idols in the sanctuary, and yet He forgave them and sent them prophets and kings to help them on the road to recovery?

Have you forgotten the principle of forgiveness that we are to apply to individuals? (70x7) Would you apply the same standard of hope to the backsliddin sinner ("You are a hopeless case")?Our church has only been here less than 200 years. Who knows what God will yet do for us? Giving His people up is a last resort for God and I'm not yet ready to make that call for Him.

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, just remember that when Jesus replied back to the Jewish leaders in reference to their questions, He too left the speachless. Don't allow those who can't or will not testify for Jesus to hurt you.

[Gibs]

Doug,

There is a point God only goes so far. The toleration with Israel of old ended at the termination of that 70'th week of years and then those whom would not see that Christ was their promised Messiah were cut off and the Gentiles graffed in. Yes those cut off could come and accept him and be graffed back in again but they are hard set to not to. Jesus used some strong language to them

There does come a time the backslidden sinner has either grieved away His Spirit and now we are very close to being measured up when it is said,

Re 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Also, the temple of God is measured up first,Re 11:1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Those who haven't ever come to Him are given more time,

Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

That language means, "Gentiles", those outside the temple who are not Christians but a time is given for them to repent, as the rest of the chapter indicates they are witnesed to.

Revelation, This happens during the second "woe" so you got to realize something, this is not the French Revolution. Read,

Re 11:14 ¶ The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

It is later than men think and for sure His coming will be like a thief in the night, at midnight, the darkest hour of this world and is it ever getting dark now!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Could the following be the solution then?

Speaking of Jesus, who was our example, we read,

"In Christ the cry of humanity reached the Father of infinite pity. As a man He supplicated the throne of God till His humanity was charged with a heavenly current that should connect humanity with divinity. Through continual communion He received life from God, that He might impart life to the world." Desire of Ages,363.

So, as a man who was tempted in all points like as we are, He supplicated the throne of God with a "spiritual violence" that could not be denied. In other words, Jesus took the kingdom of God by force, as did Jacob. "The kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violent take it by force." Matt.11:12.

Thus His humanity was united with the divinity of the Father and He became a laborer together with God. Then He was fit to touch humanity and His work was a complete success for the divinity of the Father accomplished everything in and through Him. Thus, as a man, He was enabled to work the works of God, to do the deeds of Omnipotence!

Immediately after stating that as a man Jesus supplicated the throne of God till His humanity was charged with a heavenly current that connected His humanity with divinity, we read, "His experience is to be ours." D.A.363.

"The law of the divine and the human action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success, for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works,27; D.A.827, last sentence in parg before last.

Now, "With the great truth we have been privileged to receive, we should, and under the Holy Spirit's power, we could, become living channels of light. We could then approach the mercy seat, and seeing the bow of promise, kneel with contrite heart, and seek the kingdom of Heaven with a spiritual violence that would bring its own reward. We would take it by force, as did Jacob. Then our message would be the power of God unto salvation. Our supplications would be full of earnestness, full of a sense of our great need, and we would not be denied. The truth would be expressed by life and character, and by lips touched with the living coal from off God's altar. When this experience is ours, we shall be lifted out of our poor, cheap selves, that we have cherished so tenderly. We shall empty our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness, and shall be filled with praise and gratitude to God. We shall magnify the Lord, the God of all grace, who has magnified Christ. And He will reveal His power through us, making us as sharp sickles in the harvest field." E.G. White, Review & Herald, Feb.14,1899.

Now what is this great truth we have been privileged to receive?

"The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

"Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." Faith & Works,106.

So with this great truth we have been privileged to receive, we could, and we should, with a sense of our great need, approach the throne of God and take the kingdom of heaven by force, that is, by pleading the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour till we be charged with a heavenly current that would connect our humanity with the divinity of Christ. Then our message will be the power of God unto salvation!

"We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness, and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

And "When divine power is combined with human effort, the work will spread like fire in the stubble." 1 S.M.118.

Here it is again, the great truth we have been privileged to receive:

"You want to be like little children, hanging upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, and then you will be fortified. How? The angels of God will be around you as a wall of fire; the righteousness of Christ, which you claim, goes before you, and the glory of God is your rearward. God sanctify our tongues, our thoughts, our minds, that we may dwell upon heavenly themes, and that we may impart that knowledge and light to others." Ms 9, 1891.

Then the soul becomes God's fortress which He holds in a revolted world and He intends that no authority shall be known in it but His own. A soul thus kept by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan. See D.A.324.

What kind of children is mentioned?--Little children. Little children have not much pride of their own. Grown up ones are not so ready to learn.

"Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Mark 10:15.

What say you, all of you?

sky

[Gibs]

All must be humbled to fall on the Rock and be brolen, a death of the old sinful self and born again of His Spirit to a walk with Him. One must be teachable and malleable in the hands of our Potter and then from a new start grow up in Him.

A new creature indeed. When this is done in true repentance and totall surrender of our will then He can come and dwell within and that enables one to be a coveted overcomer which is an absolute must.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Pride is the biggest obstacle for those who have left the Adventist Church and now preach against it. To humble themselves and admit their mistake is all but impossible. This has always been the case through out the history of this planet. The longer, the more earnestly they preach error the tighter the ropes that bind them to error become.

We see this concept many times over in the bible. In our day, from Adventist history, we see it profoundly in 1844 with the great disappointment. Many who had preached so earnestly, with great piety, deeply sincere and yet mistaken, were so crushed they could not possibly humble themselves to admit their mistake. The door for them was closed.

Is the cost of heaven to great? NO! It breaks my heart to think that some are so caught up in pride they will not be able to recover. Turn ye from error, for why will you choose death for a few fleeting moments of pride compared to eternal happiness? How terribly sad....

[Gibs]

Clubv12,

I leave you a free man to have your opinion. But you must see your opinion is not my guiding light.

Dr. Rich is entitled to his opinion too and since he is a SDAdventist he is your brother at least in the church. How sure are you that you are more right than he.

Give him his freedom as God does and love him as God does, God will be the judge of every one, we need to be careful not to enter His Ground. Reason with your brothers and go on your merry way and be happy you too have freedom, well yet.

It's fine to point out error but don't label me or Dr. Rich or anyone, let our God do that.

Club you must see by now I am not guided by men or I would still be a member, you see I'm a free man in HIM.

You think I left the church, but no, I exited with the Church that more than anything else was crowded out. Yes on count of the straight testimony we held to and would not and could not give up.

It is your priviledge to reason with those you disagree with and I have no problem with that, I will reason back to you and not with any flaming.

I'm an older man no doubt than you and I've seen a lot transpire you have not. Gibs is 80 + now and wish I would have known 40 years ago what I know and understand now.

We are to even love our enemies among men but I do believe our worst enemy is deception. We don't have any excuse for being deceived,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

The last part of that promise is enlightening also.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.