the seven trumpets

[skyblue888]

The first four trumpets were judgments that fell upon Pagan Rome before 476 A.D. at the hand of the barbarian tribes. The fifth and sixth trumpets were judgments that fell upon Papal Rome between 1299 and 1843 at the hand of the Turks and the seventh trumpet will be the judgments that will fall upon Babylon the Great after the close of probation. In other words the seventh trumpet is the seven last plagues.

The bowing down at the feet of the saints does not take place before probation closes but at the time of the fifth plague.

Any feedback?

sky

[Gibs]

Sky, I need proof that this happened at that time and I am very sure it didn't.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[antcreations]

here is a good chart that shows different interpretations of Revelation's 7 Trumpets.

I prefer Dr. Jon Paulien/H. LaRondelle and R. Stefanovic’s interpretation.

Various Seventh-day Adventist views on the 7 Trumpets of Revelation.

[Lysimachus]

Very interesting chart. Thanks for sharing antcreations!

[Lysimachus]

Antcreations,

How can we read the full article by Angel Manuel Rodriguez?

[Gibs]

You are all ignoring the fact that scripture makes it clear those trumpets don't begin until Jesus comes to the Altar and casts live coals of fire into earth then that first angel sounds. He gives the signal to start them.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

He hasn't done that yet and besides the first trumpet burns up a third of the tree and ALL THE GREEN grass. Never has that happened on this earth. NEVER! Please read CAREFULLY!,

Twist and argue with the scripture! There is your timing clue to start the trumpets. NONE, NONE have happened yet.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[antcreations]

http://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2012/01/the-seven-trumpets-of-revelation

Antcreations,

How can we read the full article by Angel Manuel Rodriguez?

[Dr. Rich]

LOL. What ever happened to Trumpets 1-4 as found in Rev. 8:7-13?

[cheddar]

You are all ignoring the fact that scripture makes it clear those trumpets don't begin until Jesus comes to the Altar and casts live coals of fire into earth then that first angel sounds. He gives the signal to start them.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

He hasn't done that yet and besides the first trumpet burns up a third of the tree and ALL THE GREEN grass. Never has that happened on this earth. NEVER! Please read CAREFULLY!,

Twist and argue with the scripture! There is your timing clue to start the trumpets. NONE, NONE have happened yet.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The trumpets don't even begin until the 144K receive the seal of God in the their foreheads (Rev. 7) and the 5th trumpet specifically talks about this.

And I'm supposed to believe that all this already happened in the middle ages?

Please!! I'm not that dumb. Adventists are fairly well educated for the most part so how this historical nonsense passes for truth I have no idea.

Thank God for people like Larry Wilson who had the courage to follow the Bible instead of adventist tradition.

[Lysimachus]

I think this thread hit a nerve with Dr. Rich and Gibs.

[Gibs]

lysimachus,

No nerve touched here as the scripture is solid which I follow over all. All things were not hammered out by our forefathers. He left us here at the end to see it or not to. It is plain, clear and in your face, just look at it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

"You are all ignoring the fact that scripture makes it clear those trumpets don't begin until Jesus comes.."

Thats a bunch of excellent biblical scholars your saying missed something Gibs. Any particular reason I should take your interpretation over theirs? I KNOW what their credentials are, men of God, great bible scholars, excellent hard working students of the bible.

I also KNOW some of your credentials, EX Seventh-day Adventist calling others to leave Gods Church. You really don't count as counsel of the brethren as you have placed yourself outside of that group. A "lone wolf" you might say.... Note worthy are those who agree with you though, other EX Adventists and so called Adventists preaching and teaching that which directly opposes Church doctrine. That speaks volumes right there.

Hmmmm,,,, your credentials stacked up against the COUNSEL of the BRETHREN does'nt put you in a good light. Just reasoning out the messenger, testing the interpretation, yours just does'nt look solid when compared.

We should study for ourselves? Absolutely! We should do that ALONE, no counsel of the brethren? NO WAY, thats a fool's game.

[Dr. Rich]

Jon Paulin has no clue as he is a friend of mine and refuses to take off his dark glasses.

[Dr. Rich]

You are all ignoring the fact that scripture makes it clear those trumpets don't begin until Jesus comes to the Altar and casts live coals of fire into earth then that first angel sounds. He gives the signal to start them.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

He hasn't done that yet and besides the first trumpet burns up a third of the tree and ALL THE GREEN grass. Never has that happened on this earth. NEVER! Please read CAREFULLY!,

Twist and argue with the scripture! There is your timing clue to start the trumpets. NONE, NONE have happened yet.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Bingo! Your right on Gibs! These people on the chart are clueless!

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

You are all ignoring the fact that scripture makes it clear those trumpets don't begin until Jesus comes to the Altar and casts live coals of fire into earth then that first angel sounds. He gives the signal to start them.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

He hasn't done that yet and besides the first trumpet burns up a third of the tree and ALL THE GREEN grass. Never has that happened on this earth. NEVER! Please read CAREFULLY!,

Twist and argue with the scripture! There is your timing clue to start the trumpets. NONE, NONE have happened yet.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The trumpets don't even begin until the 144K receive the seal of God in the their foreheads (Rev. 7) and the 5th trumpet specifically talks about this.

And I'm supposed to believe that all this already happened in the middle ages?

Please!! I'm not that dumb. Adventists are fairly well educated for the most part so how this historical nonsense passes for truth I have no idea.

Thank God for people like Larry Wilson who had the courage to follow the Bible instead of adventist tradition.

YES! And God Bless Larry Wilson! Without him hitting me on the head I would have been just one of those clueless Adventists!

[ClubV12]

"clueless Adventists" Dr.Rich?

And yet you repeatedly say you don't disparage or fight against the Adventist Church. I find you CONTINUALLY do so and don't even realize it!

[Dr. Rich]

There are a FEW Adventists that KNOW the real truth and I would NOT call them clueless! One group are the wise bride's maids and the other group are the foolish bride's maids. You are free to pick which ever side you will be on. But remember, the wick must be trimmed (old belief done away with) to allow the oil (Holy Spirit) to lead you into "new truth"

[ClubV12]

I would suggest that you be careful in your broad statements concerning any particular group then Dr.Rich. SOME Adventists is much more appropriate than the suggestion than ALL Adventists are "whatever".

There are a few Adventists that are actually members of the Church who do in fact preach and teach error. I happen to know a few on this very forum.... :)

[Dr. Rich]

I never said ALL Adventists are clueless--READ my lips! I said "clueless Adventists". If the shoe fits-----

Let me be more specific. As a Sabbath School teacher and the leader of the youth division for many many years, I have seen it before my eyes and have come to the conclusion that MOST Adventists refuse to study their bible because they somehow believe since they are Adventists, they will be saved or 'are saved'. When I started teaching from the bible ONLY and showed the 'students' things they never knew before, some folks complained that I was not teaching from the little red books. Wow, folks actually complaining that the bible had to be wrong because what I was showing them was not what Aunt Ellen wrote.

[ClubV12]

Dr.Rich says,

"...because they somehow believe since they are Adventists, they will be saved or 'are saved'."

I have heard this statement at various times from various people. I have NEVER heard it from a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church who actually believes in and supports the Church. It is well known, Adventist 101 if you would, that no one is saved simply because he/she is an Adventist.

This is one rumor that simply won't fly.

[phkrause]

Jon Paulin has no clue as he is a friend of mine and refuses to take off his dark glasses.

I went to school with Jon and there was no one smarter and knew more about the Bible even at that age. I will take his interpretation over most.

[Dr. Rich]

perhaps you then know me too PK--as I too knew Jon back then but knew his older brother (even went to his wedding) better. Jon now lives near me and we have been conversing back and fourth (I guess that is what you would call it) but for some reason he can't clearly see that all of the book of Revelation was ONLY for the "bondservants" as it states in verse 1. His on going meetings present a different picture-one that makes absolutly no sense to me. But then I have to take in consideration that he is being paid by the conference and must toe the line. I just pray that some day he 'gets it'.

[antcreations]

i agree with you pk.

i follow his blog and i find his articles to be very interesting. his attitude and approach to the different school of thoughts is what i appreciate the most.

http://revelation-armageddon.com/

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Jon Paulin has no clue as he is a friend of mine and refuses to take off his dark glasses.

I went to school with Jon and there was no one smarter and knew more about the Bible even at that age. I will take his interpretation over most.

[Gibs]

I suggest all go to Rev 8:2 and start reading, you will find the simple truth is there, the trumpets start after Jesus casts the coals of fire of the Altar into the earth and the trumpet angel #1 begins.

A fifth grade read, the educated wrest it and make a lie of it, it is too simple for them to comphrehend.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

The first four trumpets were judgments that fell upon Pagan Rome at the hand of the Barbarian Tribes ending with the fall of the Roman empire in 476 A.D. The fifth and sixth trumpets were judgments that fell upon Papal Rome between 1299 and 1840 at the hand of the Turks and at the hand of the French Revolution, and the seventh trumpet will be the judgments that will fall upon Babylon the Great after the close of probation. In other words the seventh trumpet is the seven last plagues.

The bowing down at the feet of the saints does not take place before probation closes but at the time of the fifth plague.

Any feedback?

sky

________________

Sky, I need proof that this happened at that time and I am very sure it didn't.

Gibs

_____________

First, thank you all for your participation.

Gibs, you ask me to prove what you believe to be mere assertions on my part regarding the trumpets. I stand on what I said based on the clear declarations of inspiration. In the book The Great Controversy,334,335, we are told, in no uncertain terms, that the sixth trumpet ended on August 11,1840 with the fall of the Ottoman empire.

"In the year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest. Two years before, Josiah Litch, one of the leading ministers preaching the second advent, published an exposition of Revelation 9, predicting the fall of the Ottoman Empire. According to his calculations, this power was to be overthrown "in A.D. 1840, sometime in the month of August;" and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: "Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case."--Josiah Litch, in Signs of the Times, and Expositor of Prophecy, Aug. 1, 1840.

At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. When it became known, multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic interpretation adopted by Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was given to the advent movement. Men of learning and position united with Miller, both in preaching and in publishing his views, and from 1840 to 1844 the work rapidly extended." The Great Controversy,334,335.

The fifth trumpet is mentioned. It lasted 150 literal years from 1299 to 1449 and the sixth trumpet lasted 391 years and 15 days ending on August 11,1840.

So this implies that the judgments of the first four trumpets fell before 1299. They were the judgments that fell upon Pagan Rome at the hand of the barbarian tribes which brought about the fall of the Roman empire in A.D.476. Uriah Smith was right about that.

In 1844 the seventh trumpet sounded when Jesus passed from the holy to the most holy apartment of the sanctuary above. This meant that the judgments of God were about to fall upon a wicked world but before they fell the people of God were to give the last warning, the last message of mercy to the world.

We are told in The Great Controversy,457,458, that if the advent people had labored unitedly in the work in 1844, had received the third angel's message and proclaimed it in the power of the Holy Spirit, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts and a flood of light would have been shed upon the world and Christ would have come for the redemption of His people.

So we are living in the time of the seventh trumpet but these judgments to fall upon Babylon the Great, the seven last plagues, will not fall until the the last message of mercy has been proclaimed to the world in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God and probation has closed.

sky