the seven trumpets

[Guest]

If it comes to books for reading on this subject, get Larry Wilson's book called "Wake Up America"

I have a sister who's into Larry Wilson. Some of that stuff is pretty far out there. I don't buy it. But I'm not surprised that you do, Rich. Ol buddy.

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich, There is coming the last great wake up call and I find the main witness of it will come about by the 144,000 and many miracles will be done again. I wonder if it won't be during the trumpets or if not it must happen very soon. What are your thoughts on that?

Hey and thanks Cheddar those are some very good points, you made, follows below.

"The ‘bottomless pit’ is mentioned seven times in Rev."

- Three times are dealing with the 5th trumpet and the angel who ascends out of it (Rev. 9:1,2,11)

- One time is referring to the beast that ascends out and kills the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7)

- One time is referring to the seven headed ten horned beast that ascends out of the pit (Rev. 17:8)

- The last two times are the time when Satan is placed back into the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1,3)

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Yes Cheddar made it clear that Satan is the second beast of Rev. 13 and this has NOT yet happened, for you can also read that this only happens during the last 5 months of this earth's history.

The 144k have to be sealed prior to the start of the tribulation, for they go thru it but it NOT a test for them as we can read about them in Rev. 3--them being the 6th group--with nothing wrong with them and only one warning to hold on to their crown.

Before the 144k are sealed, the ONE person found in Matthew 24:45 must present this FOOD (real truth) to those who are hungry for it and will eat it, his fellow servants. Those who eat this food are the 144k.

This MAY start on or about June 10 to July 10 of this year. The 1335 days IS the amount of time given for this food to be served. I expect a great shaking of the Adventist church during this time as two sides will form, one who refuse to be fed because they are filled with 'food offered to idols', that being all of the lies from both EGW and Paul. The other side will be those who finally eat the real truth, that being the words of Jesus (and the OT) who finaly see the difference because of things that are going to happen during this time too.

Anyway, that is MY take on this. It's necessary for the "Priests" (144k) to be sealed as the first fruits before anyone else just as the Priests had to have their sins cleansed prior to the whole corporate group of Israel during the Atonement. These are the "Priests" found in Rev. 5:9-10.

[phkrause]

This MAY start on or about June 10 to July 10 of this year. The 1335 days IS the amount of time given for this food to be served. I expect a great shaking of the Adventist church during this time as two sides will form, one who refuse to be fed because they are filled with 'food offered to idols', that being all of the lies from both EGW and Paul. The other side will be those who finally eat the real truth, that being the words of Jesus (and the OT) who finaly see the difference because of things that are going to happen during this time too.

There is no need to continuely call EGW and Paul Liars. I don't mind if you want to say that they have misinformed or something to that nature, but liars is going to far. You don't know that for a fact! How would you like it, if some were to do that to you? At least your here to defend yourself, they are not. Just imagine if it turns out that they were not liars! How are you gonna look than?

[Dr. Rich]

PK, Did Elijah call Jezebel a liar? Hmmm? Did Elijah tell her that she was just mistaken? Yes, she was alive at that time, but just as that Jezebel led almost all of Israel astray way back then, so to did the "Jezebel" lead by her teachings, those who would have been bondservants, astray as found in the prophecy of Rev. 2:18-25.

If EGW was/is not the "Jezebel" found in this prophecy, then please tell us who this is and show us your evidence. I, and many others, have clearly shown how wrong she was about MANY things, not just the 7 trumpets. Why people tolorate her false teachings today is down right frustrating for the few of us who have the insight and wisdom to clearly see this major problem.

So Pk and those of you who fear the words above, please show us where the few of us are wrong, don't just tell us. Do it with the words of Jesus.

[Dr. Rich]

Another thing to remember, Jesus said that the 'hour' of His ministry had come when He with with His disciples on the Mt. of Olives just before (same day) they arrested Him.

The Three Angels messages also say that the 'hour of His judgment has come' and God's time is not a trivel thing. That 'hour' did not last for 150 years as EGW wrote and said she had a vision about, for the hour for this judgment is still to come in the future. The same reason Jesus's words to the bondservants are only for those in the last generation, is because Jesus reminded them that "Time is short". There was NO need for this warning for those living at the time of EGW and Uraih Smith.

So PK, I do agree that all of this is very serious and I do take it as a very serious thing to call both EGW and Paul liars. But again, not everyone has been given that special insight to understand this. And reading what Jesus said about Him giving special insight, He will NOT give this to anyone who is practicing and believing in lies. These are not my words, they are the words of Jesus. (Matt. 13:10-11)

[Lysimachus]

Dr. Rich.... time to lay low. We all know what you believe, and what you're trying to convince us of. You've made your arguments clear. It starts to get repetitive and obnoxious when you keep hammering the same thing over and over and over again, that EGW and Paul were false. Truly, how many times do you have to try and repeat this? We know where you stand. We disagree. We're not convinced. So can't you just lay low for a change on this? It gets very tiring after a while.

[Dr. Rich]

Well well, I could say the same thing about this issue with all of those who copy and cut and past words from others who never knew Jesus too. I am sure the Jezebel said the same thing to Elijah. Lets agree to prove one another wrong by evidence from the words of Jesus--and not to poke fun or call anyone names. If you want me to stop pointing out that the words of Jesus are the truth, then please show me where I am wrong and I will. It's just that simple. But do it by using the words of Jesus.

[Guest]

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

[phkrause]

PK, Did Elijah call Jezebel a liar? Hmmm? Did Elijah tell her that she was just mistaken? Yes, she was alive at that time, but just as that Jezebel led almost all of Israel astray way back then, so to did the "Jezebel" lead by her teachings, those who would have been bondservants, astray as found in the prophecy of Rev. 2:18-25.

If EGW was/is not the "Jezebel" found in this prophecy, then please tell us who this is and show us your evidence. I, and many others, have clearly shown how wrong she was about MANY things, not just the 7 trumpets. Why people tolorate her false teachings today is down right frustrating for the few of us who have the insight and wisdom to clearly see this major problem.

So Pk and those of you who fear the words above, please show us where the few of us are wrong, don't just tell us. Do it with the words of Jesus.

Jezebel and EGW are most definitely not the same. EGW never did anything like what Jezebel did!!!!!! How can you even put them in the same category???? That's ridiculis. Anyway I guess we have hundreds or thousands of liars than, because EGW was not alone in her teachings. And Dr Rich I have no fear of any words that you are trying to convey, period. It seems to me that you are the one with no clue. But I'll tell you what, even though I disagree with your theology I will never call you a liar, that is just not Christ like. And one other thing, EGW has brought more people to Christ than all of us put together.

[Dr. Rich]

Pk, this thread was about the 7 trumpets and and a few of us here have pointed out the serious problem in believing what EGW wrote and taught. In the past 5 years I have personally asked many SDAs the question, "Do you believe that Jesus could come at any time?" And why? Every one who said yes, was because of the words of EGW--period! But you would be surprised at how many said no. Well known teachers and preachers have said no. I reminded them about what EGW wrote and most of them them agreed with me that she was wrong about her teaching on that issue.

Here is the thing, it's not about what she said that was the truth because she DID say many things that were clearly the truth. Just like the words of Paul, they could NOT be deceiving unless they looked like the real truth--after all a good counterfiet must look like the real thing to actually deceive anyone.

Shoot, we all were in darkness at one time because that is where we all start. Of course we need faith at that time, no question about that--but Jesus said to MOVE from the darkness to the light. You do NOT need as much faith in the light because you have exchanged that faith into knowing the truth. But we are not to sit still because the truth MOVES and if you don't move with it, you will again be in darkness.

Those who have refused to move by the warm fuzzy words found in both Paul and EGW are now in the dark--where Jesus warned them to get off the fence and move one way or the other. They have been hanging on to fasle teachings, refusing to learn NEW truth. No one knew the difference between the wheat and weeds until just this generation. That was a true prophecy!

God sent His Son to TESTIFY to the truth because Israel had not moved in the light and were left in darkness. Jesus said He came to save the lost sheep of Israel, but they refused to be found. Now, the same thing is going on with Adventists. Do I care? YES! If I did not care, I would NOT be here warning with the words of Jesus.

The folks that want to keep things 'status quo' are probably scared silly of what I am saying and writing. Why? Are the words of Jesus really that terrifying? (Keep the ten commandments and hold/follow and abide in the words of Jesus ONLY) It's not about the 'majority' but about the FEW (Rev. 3:4) If only ONE person can see the light, then it is well worth the effort of presenting the words of Jesus here instead of the words of others who never knew Jesus.

[Lysimachus]

Dr. Rich,

The so called "problems" that you see in Ellen White's understanding of the 7 trumpets is nothing more but a "human perception of problems". You are human, and you perceive problems. We cannot trust human perceptions.

[Lysimachus]

The Words of Jesus are also given to us through His prophets.

The words of Paul were not Paul's words, but Jesus' Words, impressed upon Paul's mind, and Paul therefore conveyed those words of Jesus into writing.

[Guest]

The Words of Jesus are also given to us through His prophets.

The words of Paul were not Paul's words, but Jesus' Words, impressed upon Paul's mind, and Paul therefore conveyed those words of Jesus into writing.

Amen brother.

[phkrause]

The Words of Jesus are also given to us through His prophets.

The words of Paul were not Paul's words, but Jesus' Words, impressed upon Paul's mind, and Paul therefore conveyed those words of Jesus into writing.

Amen

[Dr. Rich]

then why do you allow women NOT to remain quiet in church? Is that from God? All I am saying is you pick and choose what you want to believe, right? As for allowing each person to pick which day they want for their Sabbath, is that from God too?

Why in the world does anyone need another prophet after Jesus? Wasn't He good enough for you?

[skyblue888]

Dr. Rich, the exception makes the rule. If the Lord can't find a man through whom He can speak His messages, He uses women. There were times when He could speak neither through a man nor a woman, so He spoke through a domesticated beast.

sky

[Guest]

Amen sky..

[skyblue888]

think Dr Rich will say Amen too? hehe

[phkrause]

Dr. Rich, the exception makes the rule. If the Lord can't find a man through whom He can speak His messages, He uses women. There were times when He could speak neither through a man nor a woman, so He spoke through a domesticated beast.

sky

Excellent point sky

[Dr. Rich]

Sky, this time you really have made me LOL! (As though God's mind is so dull He goofs) PLEASE! Give me ONE good reason why God actually needed EGW (and Paul too) to interfere with the clean, crisp, and clear words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses as found in Matthew, John and Revelation?

For Pete's sake! Read those words and 'he who has an ear' UNDERSTAND because if you don't, then the words of others will so totally confuse you that you will never be able to understand! The words of TRUTH are what the 144k hear from the ONE person found in Matt. 24:45. The 'fellow servants' will eat that food because they are hungry. If you are NOT one of those fellow servants, then your tummy is already full of 'food offered to idols' which are lies from false prophets and false apostles. Now go read Rev. 2:18-25 again and notice all of those who will not want to be fed because they are filled with 'food offered to idols'. He who has an ear, listen up! This is serious stuff, nothing to cause one to laugh about.

[HopefulOne]

Has the 7,th seal been open yet?? Most would say no,we are between the 6,th and 7,th seal. It seems a certain amount of time passes with each seal so when the 7,th seal is open does Jesus come right away or do certain events take place first?

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:1-2 (KJV)

http://www.theupperroomministry.com/Sermons/J.%20Reynolds%20Hoffman/57%20The%20Seven%20Trumpets.mp3

[HopefulOne]

Has the 7,th seal been open yet?? Most would say no,we are between the 6,th and 7,th seal. It seems a certain amount of time passes with each seal so when the 7,th seal is open does Jesus come right away or do certain events take place first?

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:1-2 (KJV)

[HopefulOne]

Has the 7,th seal been open yet?? Most would say no,we are between the 6,th and 7,th seal. It seems a certain amount of time passes with each seal so when the 7,th seal is open does Jesus come right away or do certain events take place first?

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:1-2 (KJV)