Increased Light? On What?

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

SD you are perfectly entitled to believe whatever you choose to believe. I have freedom to post here just as you do. If you are not interested in my posts, then don't pay attention to them. That's all there is to it.

Fair enough?

Good advice for anywhere on the board!

Yep. And wisdom that cuts both ways. Freedom is a two-way street.

[Kevin H]

But Tom, that's not true, because as long as I believe in the investagative jugdment I don't have a right to my opinion and those who are wanting to save me from this horrible situation do not need to know where I am coming from, they do not need to look at the reasons for my belief, they just have to simply tell me to stop believing it.

[phkrause]

But Tom, that's not true, because as long as I believe in the investagative jugdment I don't have a right to my opinion and those who are wanting to save me from this horrible situation do not need to know where I am coming from, they do not need to look at the reasons for my belief, they just have to simply tell me to stop believing it.

Now those are interesting points Kevin.

[Tom Wetmore]

Kevin, I think you may have missed the point. It seems that too often, especially in theological discussions here, each wants their own POV expressed without serious challenge and take great umbrage at any opposing POV or serious challenge to it. I see that attitude exhibited regularly from all sides.

My point is that if one expects respect for ones own opinion, the two-way road of freedom of expression demands the reciprocal showing of respect for other opinions, no matter how different from ones own they may be.

[phkrause]

Kevin, I think you may have missed the point. It seems that too often, especially in theological discussions here, each wants their own POV expressed without serious challenge and take great umbrage at any opposing POV or serious challenge to it. I see that attitude exhibited regularly from all sides.

My point is that if one expects respect for ones own opinion, the two-way road of freedom of expression demands the reciprocal showing of respect for other opinions, no matter how different from ones own they may be.

Tom it seems to me that is what he is trying to say. Take out your first sentence and I agree 100% with you.

[skyblue888]

But Tom, that's not true, because as long as I believe in the investagative jugdment I don't have a right to my opinion and those who are wanting to save me from this horrible situation do not need to know where I am coming from, they do not need to look at the reasons for my belief, they just have to simply tell me to stop believing it.

It seems to be that way.

Why do you think that is Kevin?

Any idea?

sky

[skyblue888]

And now I believe it would be a good time to study the sealing of the people of God.

If ever we are to have a clear and accurate understanding of the order of last day events, we must understand the sealing work of the people of God. Not that this is a very difficult subject to understand though one would think so when we consider the widely divergent concepts of the order of last day events.

No sooner do we begin a serious and careful study of this topic than we become aware of the fact that there are two distinct and separate seals. They are totally different from each other and must not be confused with each other. Each has its place and role in the plan of God.

We observe too that the Bible does not say that there are two seals any more than it says that there are two comings of Christ, or two shakings, or two marriages, two brides, or any of the two things which in Scripture are different and yet called by the same name.

In each case we are left to recognize the fact that there are two and to understand as to which is being spoken of in a certain place.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Let us turn now to some references which clearly speak of a seal which up till this time no person living on the earth at present has received.

"The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided... Rev.13:11-17 quoted... This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed." 7 B.C. 976.

This statement makes it very certain that no one can receive the seal spoken of here, until they have passed the test imposed by the setting up of the image of the beast. The test comes first and then the seal of God follows on all those who have passed this fearful test.

Now the image of the beast, as an active effective agency has not yet at this time of writing been set up, and as certain as this is so, the test of the image is not before the people yet. Therefore there is not a soul living on the face of the earth who has passed that test yet and equally surely then, no one living has that seal upon them at this time.

This makes it very clear indeed that the great final test must come, and only those who remain loyal in the face of that pressure, will receive this seal of God.

"The final test has been brought upon the world. All who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received the seal of the living God. Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above." Great Controversy, p.613.

There is no difficulty then in seeing that this test and this seal are still very much in the future.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

In the light of these clear facts then it is plain that it is of a different seal of which Paul and others speak, when they tell of a seal which was had by the living in the past.

Let us read of this first in Ephesians 1:12,13.

"That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise."

Here then were a people to whom he said that they were already sealed with the Holy Spirit. He did not speak of their receiving a seal in the future but as of having received it before this time. Did this mean that they had passed the great final test? No indeed. Yet they were sealed. It is evident that this must be, and indeed was, a different seal from that which is spoken of in the first two statements.

The fact that the present seal is called the seal of the living God just as the final seal is called by the same name is proved still further by this statement from Sons and Daughters of God, p.51.

"The law of God, which is perfect holiness, is the only standard of character. Love is expressed in obedience, and perfect love casteth all fear. Those who love God, have the seal of God in their foreheads, and work the works of God."

Again this seal is not spoken of as something they will have, but of something they already have at the present time!

The first seal is

1. A work which is done in us day by day.

2. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, begun by the former rain and completed by the latter rain.

3. It is a process of settling into the truth both intellectually and spiritually.

4. It prepares for the great final test.

When this sealing work is finished, there is no spot, wrinkle or any such thing left in the individual, and the devil can find nothing in him whatsoever to respond to his temptations. It is very proper and natural to ask then, If the first seal does all of that in me, then what need do I have of a second and final seal? What is there yet that I need, not already provided in this first seal? If the moral image of Jesus is completely formed within, then will I not be fit to enter Heaven?

[skyblue888]

It is very evident that if the Lord has completed the work of grace in my soul, then the Lord is not going to do any further work in my soul in the second seal. And neither does He. The second seal is not concerned with the work of the Holy Spirit in the soul of man; that work by that time is complete, and you cannot complete completion, or perfect perfection.

At the same time, the second seal is still the sealing of the people of God. In a way not accomplished by the first seal, this seal will give the people of God a final and eternal protection from sin. This is but to say that although "the full corn" of Christ's character is "in the ear," they still cannot enter there until this further work, not accomplished by the first seal, has been done for them.

It is to say that this work is something beyond the province of the Holy Spirit, something which even He cannot do for them. He has done all that He could do in the first seal, but now another must accomplish this final service for them.

This is not to limit the power of the Holy Spirit in the least. It is not to say that He is anything less than omnipotent. He is truly all-powerful in the fullest sense of the word, but it is not a question of power but one of province. Thus we shall see that the second seal is the work of the Savior Himself and not of the Holy Spirit.

sky

[skyblue888]

What then is this final work which gives to the people of God the second and final sealing against sin?

Wherein has the first seal not provided the full and final protection? The answer is simple and clear. To understand it we must turn to the unfolding of the gospel work as revealed in the sanctuary.

The sanctuary makes it very clear that there can be no such thing as once saved, always saved. While it is true that pardon and cleansing is a very real and literal matter in the daily experience, it is also to be understood that such pardon and cleansing is conditional on our faithfulness to the end. Ezek.18:14.

Here on this earth we are on probation. Our destiny is not yet finally and eternally secure. The sins which we have confessed are safe and secure in the sanctuary until the great day of final atonement, but then, if we are found without the wedding garment, they will come back on our own heads just as if we had never been forgiven. G.C.420,421.

The first seal does not provide the protection needed to make us eternally secure from the return of those sins. At the end of the hours of our earthly probation we are still in a position wherein there is the open door of the possibility of those sins returning upon us again.

It is a door which we need to have sealed forever, so that the sin can never ever come back upon us. It must be very apparent that the provision of the sealing off of any possibility of the sin returning upon us from the sanctuary, is a very different work from the work of overcoming.

Yet both, in the truest sense, are a sealing against sin into righteousness. The first seal is preliminary to the second, for if we did not have the first seal then there would be no sin in the sanctuary from the return of which we would need to be protected.

Yet while the first is preliminary to the second, it cannot be complete in itself and without the second all that was accomplished under the first would be of no avail whatsoever.

This is a fact which needs to be made quite clear.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Think of the situation as follows:

A believer has faithfully put away every sin which has ever been shown to him; he has received all the benefit of the former and the latter rain, thus having had the full measure of the character of Christ developed within him; he has faced and passed the great final test and thus has all the inward fitness to enter Heaven; but this does not seal him against the return of the sins which were sent beforehand to judgment. That is a very different work.

It is the other seal and it can be effected by One Person and one alone and that is Jesus the High Priest, who by virtue of the merits of His spilt blood can and will sprinkle His blood upon the mercy seat and thus make the final atonement for our confessed and forsaken sins.

As this point everything depends upon Him. Just as Queen Esther was the one person in existence who could go in before the king and plead for Israel of old, so Jesus will be the One in existence who can go in and plead before the Father for His people.

But He does not have to do it. His is not a service of compulsion other than that of the divine compulsion of an indwelling and unquenchable love. His ever has been and ever will be a willing sacrifice. Cost Him what it may, we know that He will go through with the final atonement without the least hesitation. On this we can rely with the greatest of certainty and assurance.

But there is a danger that we underestimate the full implications of what this means to us. Therefore, in an effort both to bring home to us how vitally important it is that Jesus does make the final atonement, and to show the nature and work of the second seal, let us suppose that Jesus in the end refused to go through with His work.

That is to say, we are supposing for the moment that when the time comes for Him to step to the mercy seat and sprinkle His blood for the final atonement for our sins by virtue of which He is able to take all the sins of the true people of God and place them upon the scapegoat, He would refuse to do this.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

What would this mean to the man here upon this earth at that time who, while living, had received the full benefit of the daily sealing, the full impression of the Spirit of God in the character of Christ in his life, the moral fitness for re-entrance into Heaven and in whose heart throbbed the hope of translation?

We need consider no other individual than such for the rest of the living at that time could not receive the benefit of the final atonement anyway.

It would mean that his sins could not and would not go onto the scapegoat. But neither could they remain any longer in the sanctuary from which they must be promptly removed. The limit of time during which they can remain there is expired.

The judgment has come demanding the removal of them from the sanctuary and it will have what it demands. Therefore the sin must be taken out and it must be sent somewhere. Inasmuch as it cannot under such circumstances be placed upon the scapegoat, then it must be returned to the individual himself.

There is no other alternative and such would mean that there would be no salvation for us at all but only the darkness of an eternal night. And this would still be so even though the individual had received all the benefits of the first seal.

In the light of these clear facts, no one should have the least difficulty in seeing that the first seal does not provide us with the protection from the possibility of the return of all our confessed sins.

At the same time it must not be forgotten that the first seal must be had in order to receive the second. It is preliminary but it is not final. Wonderful and perfect as it is, if it was the only seal received, we could not have salvation.

Thus it is that the first seal takes us so far but leaves us unsealed against the awful possibility of the return of all of our sins in the great day of Judgment, but when Jesus steps to the mercy seat and sprinkles His blood as He most certainly will do for every truly repentant child of God (dead or living) who has received all the benefits of the Holy Spirit's work in the first seal, then the sin is placed upon the scapegoat and we are eternally secure against the return of sin in any shape or form.

That final work of Jesus in the sanctuary sets a seal of protection upon us by shutting off forever any possibility of sin regaining its dominion over the people of God. This is the second seal and final seal which is different in every respect from the first seal.

Next: Conclusion

[skyblue888]

I know these studies can bother one's conscience. It is hard to kik against the pricks!

These last posts are easy to read.

I believe the information given help us understand the distinct differences between the two seals.

I am sorry that you can't find anything helpful.

sky

[skyblue888]

Here is the conclusion:

As we summarised the facts of the first seal, let us now summarize the facts of the second so as to show the difference clearly and distinctly.

1. Whereas the first seal is a work done in us, the second is a work done in the sanctuary.

2. Whereas the FIRST SEAL is a work done by the Holy Spirit, the SECOND SEAL is accomplished by our High Priest.

3. The FIRST is done during a certain period of time, the SECOND is done in a moment.

4. The FIRST prepares us for the final test, the SECOND is only given on passing the great final test.

5. The FIRST completes the work in the soul, the SECOND does nothing in the soul. 6. The FIRST is completed before the judgment, the SECOND is given only after passing the judgment.

When the Jews of old were not able to understand the difference between the two comings of Christ, it cost them their eternal life, for they were led to expect Him to arrive at His first coming as He was due to arrive at the second.

When He did not thus come they rejected Him and lost their eternal salvation in consequence. It was as serious as that.

So will the wrong understanding of the seals lead us to take a position which will cost us our eternal life.

Let us see how this could be.

The difficulty with the Jew of old was that he saw one coming where he should have seen that there were two. Likewise, the average professed child of God today sees but the one seal where he should see two.

If only the Jews in the days of Christ had understood the difference between two things which were called by the same name and yet were different, they would not have lost their eternal life.

And today, if only we can understand the difference between the two seals which are called by the same name and yet are different, then we too shall be saved from the consequences of thus being confused.

Today, we must be in an attitude to receive both the former and the latter rain by trusting wholly in the all-sufficient MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour that our hearts may be marked by the all-atoning blood. As the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is being written upon the fleshly tablets of our hearts, we shall have the preparation to receive the great final seal when that time comes.

May each one make his calling and election sure.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." Faith and Works, p.87.

sky

[skyblue888]

A close study of the sealing of the people of God reveals that the sanctuary doctrine as adhered by seventh-day adventists is Scriptural.

sky

[skyblue888]

At least as held by the pioneers and as confirmed by the SoP.

[Guest]

A close study of the sealing of the people of God reveals that the sanctuary doctrine as adhered by seventh-day adventists is Scriptural.

sky

Amen!

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

A close study of the sealing of the people of God reveals that the sanctuary doctrine as adhered by seventh-day adventists is Scriptural.

sky

Amen!

Right on Richard.

sky

[skyblue888]

Now that we have clearly seen that there are two distinct and separate seals, the one had by the people of God today and the other to be had when the great final test is passed, we would do well to ask the meaning of the word, "seal," itself.

What does it mean for something to be sealed? It simply means that it has been so effectively closed up that nothing of a foreign nature can invade the precincts and in turn nothing of value can escape or be stolen away.

Thus today we seal cans or bottles of preserves, so that the decomposing agents can find no access to turn the food sour. In the days of old the cities were closed up or sealed against the approaching enemy. To seal lettters or documents so that no one but the one for whom they were intended could dare to open them, kings and governors would stamp into the sealing wax an impression bearing the symbols of their authority. Once that had been done, then the letter was well and truly sealed and could not be opened by any foreign hand except on pain of death.

The Holy Spirit is the covering of protection through which the fiery darts of the evil one cannot penetrate.

"The gift of the Holy Spirit, rich, full, and abundant, is to be to His church as an encompassing wall of fire, which the powers of hell shall not prevail against." T.M.18; Zechariah 2:5.

sky

[skyblue888]

She???!!!

[skyblue888]

"Your birth, your reputation, your wealth, you talents, your virtues, your piety, your philanthropy, or anything in you or connected with you, your connection with the church, the manner in which your brethren regard you, will be of no avail." Review & Herald, March 28,1899.

This immediately lifts our concept of the seal of God out of the realm of its being merely a stamp of approval or of selection, which is placed upon certain individuals to distinguish them from others, because they hold a certain code of beliefs, belong to a certain church and have an acceptable attitude of loyalty to those beliefs and to that church, for

"Christ had made provision that the Holy Spirit shall be imparted to every repentant soul, to keep him from sinning." Desire of Ages,311.

Therefore we do well to think of this seal in relation to the individual as being a protection.

"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes His own fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends that no authority shall be known in it but His own. A soul thus kept by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan." Desire of Ages,324.

Therefore it can be truly said that both the early and latter rain are the sealing. And when the sealing work of the Holy Spirit and of our great High Priest is complete, then the people of God will be in a state of moral and spiritual fitness for re-entry into the eternal abodes.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

That the first seal is a work of transforming grace wrought out in the very nature of man is made plain from this reference:

"Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are prepared for the shaking, it will come." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.4,1161.

All settling into the truth must have been accomplished as a preparation for the passing of the great final test.

That is not the work of a moment. The word "settling," is a word describing a process taking a period of time to accomplish. And it does take time to become settled in the truth of God. This is not to mean that we gradually leave off sin a little at a time (1 S.M.327) but that through the showers of the latter rain we will grow up into Christ, "first the blade, then the ear, and after that the full corn in the ear." 2 Peter 3:18; Mark 4:26-29; Testimonies, Vol.1,353.

The newly converted individual does not have the strength and maturity to pass the great final test. Successive tests must come in the meantime to develop the hardness of a tried soldier and fit him to stand anything the devil could possibly bring against him. In the meantime the Lord never suffers us to be tempted beyond the strength acquired, as promised in 1 Cor.10:13.

But there is coming the time when all such protection will have been romoved and the fullness of the test will come whether we have acquired the fitness to meet it or not. Then those who have made diligent preparation by faithfully settling into the truth as it is in Jesus (Eph.4:21) will stand, while those who have not, will fail as surely as can be.

sky

[skyblue888]

no big sweat :)

[skyblue888]

The choice is before us. Either we can have the mind filled with the cares, perplexities and pleasures of the world, or we can become ever more deeply settled in the truth both intellectually and spiritually so that the truth is written in mind, forehead, and heart. If the former, then we have the seal of the devil, but if the latter, then we have the seal of security whereby the temptations of the enemy have neither power nor appeal to the human heart. When the devil comes against us he will find, not a heart filled with his own thoughts and ambitions, but filled with the love of God and the presence of the Spirit of God. From such a heart he will find no sympathy and no response whatsoever.

So then the first seal is the preparation for the great final test and therefore takes place day by day before it comes.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition with a despairing sense of our finite weakness and learn that we must DAILY APPLY to the MERITS of blood of Christ that we may become vessels FIT for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

Thus "The love of God will strengthen the soul and through the VIRTUE of the MERITS of the BLOOD of Christ we may stand UNSCATHED amid the fire of temptation and trial." Faith & Works,86.

It is the sealing work which has been going on all through the ages from the very first fall of man to the present time, and will go on while ever human probation continues.

Those who have depended on their loyalty to a church organization and its beliefs as the guarantee of their having the seal of God need to think again, for much more is involved than this. Only the actual living presence of Christ and His righteousness can seal against the power of sin and of the devil.

"The merits of Christ blot out transgressions and clothe us with the robe of Righteousness woven in the loom of Heaven." Evangelism,186.

"With the simple faith of a little child we must rest in the merits of Christ, accepting His righteousness and beileving in His mercy." Evang.185.

"You cannot save yourself from the tempter's power, but he trembles and flees when the MERITS of the precious blood of Christ are urged." Testimonies, Vol.5,317.

to be continued

sky