Increased Light? On What?

[skyblue888]

While the world has thus been moving inevitably into the throes of this final disaster and self-destruction, the Lord has been preparing His army for the battle. The study of the four angels of Revelation 14 shows that the people of the third angel's movement, for the most part, will not finish the work, only those who join the movement of the fourth angel will.

As the time approaches for the giving of the loud cry, the faithful servants who make up the nucleus of the fourth angel's movement, draw into a very close unity and develop in character and moral worth so that the Lord can use them in the final battle.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness and learn that we must DAILY APPLY to the MERITS of the blood of Christ that they may become VESSELS FIT for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

Thus "The love of God will strengthen the soul, and through the virtue of the MERITS of the blood of Christ, we may stand UNSCATHED amid the fire of temptation and trial." Ibid,86,87.

The rejection of this invitation to the bidden ones to come to God just as they are, sinful, helpless, dependent, and daily applying to the merits of Christ's shed blood, will cause a definite shaking in their midst with the result that the faithful ones will be thrust out, an event still in the future.

Despite this, many will still be looking in the future for the shaking to come, not realizing that there are two shakings, the first being caused by the STRAIGHT TESTIMONY of the True Witness to the Laodiceans, and the second by the GREAT FINAL TEST at the end of the loud cry period. This means that the door will be closed on those who would not enter, while it is still open to those who have an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

The Straight Testimony: "The gold tried in the fire is FAITH that WORKS by LOVE. Only this can bring us into harmony with God. We may be active, we may do much work; but WITHOUT LOVE, SUCH LOVE AS DWELT IN THE HEART OF CHRIST, we can never be numbered with the family of Heaven." C.O.L.158.

What was the measure of that LOVE that dwelt in the heart of Christ:

"When God gave His Son to our world, he endowed human beings with imperishable riches--riches compared with which the treasured wealth of man since the world began is nothingness. Christ came to the earth and stood before the children of men with the HOARDED LOVE OF ETERNITY, and this is the TREASURE that, through our connection with Him, we are to receive, reveal, and to impart." Ministry of Healing,37.

The hoarded love of eternity!

And how do we receive this hoarded love of eternity:

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him TRUSTING WHOLLY in the MERITS of a crucified Saviour. LOVE springs up in the heart. There may be no ecstasy of feeling, but there is an abiding, peaceful trust." 1 S.M.354.

So as you can see JB, the above is directly connected to the sanctuary in Heaven where Jesus is pleading His divine merits in our behalf that we may be clothed with the robe of His righteousness in order that we may form a Christian charater, first the blade, then the ear, and then the full corn in the ear through both the former and the latter rain. (Mark 4:26-29)

Do you not agree?

sky

[Samie]

Sky,

The statements that you posted from the Spirit of Prophecy, and these statements that I have given, really enlighten and direct us to what we should be studying.

Understanding the Sabbath in connection with the sanctuary will keep people from accepting the false Christ, as we know that he comes before the Sabbath Jubile.

Just wondering. You were mentioning about the false Christ. Mark 16:9 explicitly says Christ resurrected early morning of the chief Sabbath (from Greek 'proi prote sabbatou') which is Saturday.

The one who resurrected on Saturday as per Scriptures is obviously the true Christ. If you believe in a Christ whom RC's teach resurrected on Sunday, then it seems you have accepted the false one, don't you think so?

[skyblue888]

The first three pages of the chapter "The Final Warning," from The Great Controversy are devoted to a discussion of the nature of the issues at stake in the great struggle. First of all is quoted the reference from Revelation 18:1,2,4, which speaks of the other angel who lightens the earth with his glory and proclaims that Babylon the Great is fallen, followed by the other voice which calls upon God's people to come out of her so that they receive not of her plagues.

Then immediately comes the interesting and important comment:

"This Scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 is to be REPEATED with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various churches that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given in the summer of 1844."

It is important that this statement be kept in mind for, where we find that these conditions are being fulfilled, we may know that the loud cry has begun.

On page 604, we learn that at this time Babylon has come to her complete spiritual fall which fact we have already learned so we shall pass over it quickly here. Then follows the information that the issue will be over the Sabbath on the one hand and the Sunday as on the other. At this time THE SABBATH will be the SYMBOL of the living presence of the power of God to save from sin in the lives of all who hold it, while THE SUNDAY will be the SYMBOL of the power of sin in the lives of all who hold to it.

Therefore in the real and basic sense it will not be so much the struggle over the one day or the other, but a mighty confrontation between the one power and the other.

We can be thankful that at that time the issue will not be clouded but will be clearly brought before the people as we read:

"The decree is not to be urged upon the people blindly. Everyone is to have sufficient light to make his decision intelligently." p.605.

sky

[skyblue888]

JB, yes, on page 286 of Early Writings, Mrs. White says that the Jubile begins when Jesus delivers His people at the time of the fifth plague.

Type and antitype

The Jews kept the typical feasts. The first four of these typical feasts which were held at the beginning of the year met their antitypes in the days of Christ: The Passover, the feast of Unleavened Bread, the Firstfruits, and the feast of Weeks (Pentecost).

The feast of Trumpets met its antitype with the proclamation of the first angel's message in the days of Miller and his associates in 1833, 10 years before the Great Day of Atonement met its antitype when Jesus passed from the Holy to the Most Holy apartment of the sanctuary above.

The Feast of Tabernacles (Jubile) has not yet met its antitype and will not until the people of God are delivered at the time of the fifth plague as recorded in Early Writings,285,286.

So we have nothing to do with the typical feasts except as they teach us about their antitypes.

We are now living in the time of the antitypical day of atonement during which we are to confess our sins and rest in the merits of the world's Redeemer that our sins may be sent beforehand to judgment and that we may be clothed with the glistening vesture of His righteousness that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use.

JB, do you agree?

sky

[skyblue888]

The first three pages of the chapter "The Final Warning," from The Great Controversy are devoted to a discussion of the nature of the issues at stake in the great struggle. First of all is quoted the reference from Revelation 18:1,2,4, which speaks of the other angel who lightens the earth with his glory and proclaims that Babylon the Great is fallen, followed by the other voice which calls upon God's people to come out of her so that they receive not of her plagues.

Then immediately comes the interesting and important comment:

"This Scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 is to be REPEATED with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various churches that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given in the summer of 1844."

It is important that this statement be kept in mind for, where we find that these conditions are being fulfilled, we may know that the loud cry has begun.

On page 604, we learn that at this time Babylon has come to her complete spiritual fall which fact we have already learned so we shall pass over it quickly here. Then follows the information that the issue will be over the Sabbath on the one hand and the Sunday as on the other. At this time THE SABBATH will be the SYMBOL of the living presence of the power of God to save from sin in the lives of all who hold it, while THE SUNDAY will be the SYMBOL of the power of sin in the lives of all who hold to it.

Therefore in the real and basic sense it will not be so much the struggle over the one day or the other, but a mighty confrontation between the one power and the other.

We can be thankful that at that time the issue will not be clouded but will be clearly brought before the people as we read:

"The decree is not to be urged upon the people blindly. Everyone is to have sufficient light to make his decision intelligently." p.605.

sky

Of course the devil will spare no effort or expense to make the issue as clouded as possible but despite that, the power attending the message will clarify every issue so that no one will have any excuse. For a period of time unknown to us at this moment and nowhere revealed in the prophetic Word, the battle will rage on until at last the people of God are brought to THE GREAT FINAL TEST which, as we have learned previously comes "at the close of human probation" (C.O.L.412) and not after the close of probation for there will still be time to change sides as we have already seen from Testimonies to Ministers,473.

Then, as the next following statement clearly shows, the one class will have received the mark of the beast while the other class will receive the final seal.

"The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the FINAL TEST shall be brought upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other, choosing the token of allegiance to the divine authority, receive the seal of God." The Great Controversy,605.

sky

[skyblue888]

It is on the bottom of page 605 of The Great Controversy that there begins such a step by step description of the events of the loud cry as is matched nowhere else in the inspired word. The first words take us right back to a point leading immediately to the beginning of the loud cry, and then moves right on step by step to the very end of it. We shall quote these words, pausing every here and then to draw our attention to the significance of the information given.

"Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel's message have often been regarded as MERE ALARMISTS. Their predictions that RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE would gain control in the United States, that church and state would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been PRONOUNCED groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been,--THE DEFENDER OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event SO LONG DOUBTED and DISBELIEVED is seen to be approaching and the third message will produce an EFFECT which it COULD NOT have had before."

This paragraph then speaks of the things to happen just before the loud cry begins. On the part of the vast majority there has been complete disbelief in the possibility of free America ever imposing pressure and persecution on any who would not observe an ordinance of the church, but there comes the time when the event is seen to be approaching and then the third angel's message will grow in power and influence until it is joined by the angel of Revelation 18 at which point the loud cry proper begins.

It is worth comparing this statement from Early Writings:

"The message of the fall of Babylon as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions whcih have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to JOIN IN the last work of the third angel's message as it SWELLS to a LOUD CRY."

to be continued

[skyblue888]

This passing of the Sunday Law, marking it as it does the full and final fall of Babylon The Great so that her sins reach clear up to Heaven, brings the world to the greatest point of crisis in its history for which the Lord is not left without an answer. His answer is the fullest outpouring of His power upon men and women of His own choosing, just as in the past His Spirit has come upon faithful souls to meet the crisis of the past.

Thus we read on from page 606 of The Great Controversy:

"In every generation God has sent His servants to rebuke sin, both in the world and in the church. But the people desire smooth things spoken to them, and the pure, unvarnished truth is not acceptable. Many reformers, in entering upon their work, determined to exercise great prudence in attacking the sins of the church and the nation. They hoped, by the example of a pure Christian life, to lead the people back to the doctrines of the Bible. But the Spirit of God came upon them as it came upon Elijah, moving him to rebuke the sins of a wicked king and an apostate people; they could not refrain from preaching the plain utterances of the Bible--doctrines which they had been reluctant to present. They were impelled to zealously declare the truth and the danger which threatened souls. The words which the Lord gave them they uttered, fearless of consequences, and the people were compelled to hear the warning."

Thus it has always been in the past and it will be no different in the beginning of the loud cry. A fearful crisis will have arisen, the result of which will be that the whole world would be plunged into the most fearful pit of total destruction, into which the Lord will not let them plunge without ONE FINAL WARNING. Therefore, He sends His mighty Spirit in a flood tide of latter rain power upon His faithful, praying ones.

sky

[Johnnboy]

Sky,

We agree with everything that you have presented from the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.

We also agree that the Jubilee begins when God delivers His people, EW p. 285, 286. Also, we know that the Jubilee trumpet was blown on the Day of Atonement to give everyone liberty, Leviticus 25:8-10.

But we do not find any evidence from the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy that the Feast of Tabernacles is the Jubilee.

As much as we believe that the movement of 1844 was directed by God in giving the three angels' messages, and the beginning of the judgment of the dead on the Day of Atonement, October 22, 1844, the statement from the Great Controversy, page 399, 400, still remains the same.

“In like manner, the types relating to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service.”

This statement refers to how similarly the main fulfillment of the second advent types will be to the manner in which the first advent types were fulfilled when the Messiah was here and fulfilled the first advent types in 52 literal days, from the Passover to the Day of Pentecost.

Therefore, we look for a fulfillment of the second advent types to occur in a Sabbatical and Jubilee year within 22 literal days in the Sabbatical year and the announcement of the Jubilee by the blowing of the Jubilee trumpet on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year.

Remember, the law of God was taught in the Feast of Tabernacles in the Sabbatical year to the men, women, children and the stranger, in the type—what does that mean in the anti-type?--God's law and the Sabbath being brought to the attention of the world for them to understand the choice between the seal of God and the mark of the beast.

We can only go by the manner in which Christ fulfilled the types to understand the unfolding of truth.

“But it is the light which shines in the fresh unfolding of truth that glorifies the old. He who rejects or neglects the new does not really possess the old. For him it loses its vital power and becomes but a lifeless form.” COL 127

The fresh unfolding of truth makes all the truth come alive, and we do not want only a lifeless form.

[skyblue888]

"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with GREATEST POWER, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power--all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven." G.C.606,607.

Before we read further, there are several points which need to be pondered in this paragraph. In the first case, it must be very clear that this is the description of the opening of the loud cry. These are not events which take place before, but at the very beginning of the giving of the loud cry after it has actually begun. The second sentence in the paragraph makes this clear, reading as it does as follows: "As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power..." the events thereafter enumerated then follow and would not follow or happen except that time had come, the time when the message is to be given with greatest power.

And what is that time? As obviously as it could be, it is that time when the mighty power of the Revelation 18 angel joins the third angel's message in the power of the latter rain to begin the loud cry of the final warning.

In the 1844 edition of The Great Controversy, p.424, the same sentence reads as follows: "As the time comes for the LOUD CRY to be given..." which makes it so clear that this is the time of the loud cry which is being described in the following sentences. What is described in those sentences are events which transpire under the loud cry.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Well, brother, there are 7 typical feasts and threfore 7 antitypical feasts: the Passover, (Jesus dying on the cross became our Passover; this is the antitype) the feast of uleavened bread,(Jesus in the tomb is the antitype) the firstfruits, (His resurrrection if the antitype; then the feast of weeks (Pentecost was the antitype)

These 4 feasts took place at the beginning of the year.

Then came the last three feasts at the end of the year.

The feast of trumpets. In the type they blew the trumpets ten days before the Great Day of Atonement; Miller and his associates began proclaiming the first angel's message ten years before the Great Day of Atonement; thus they fulfilled the antitype of the feasts of trumpets...

Then came the feast of the Great Day of Atonement; we all know what the antitype of that is when Jesus entered the Most Holy Place in 1844 and began the work of investigative judgment.

The last feast is the feast of Tabernacles... it is the last feast and its antitype is the jubile. These are the feasts.

There are no others.

sky

[Kevin H]

Sorry I'm not following the point that this discussion is trying to make about the feasts, how ever they are interesting. As pointed out the major festivals grouped around the spring and fall. You can call them New Years as both in cyclic thought were seen as an end and a begining, and the Hebrews did have 2 new year festivals. Scholars say that they started out with the fall New Year with the Fall festivals which started and ended the end of the sanctuary year as they cleaned the sanctuary to finish and start the year.

However while the Hebrews had a fall new year, the other nations had a spring new year, so they started to have a second new year and the fall became the religious new year and the spring the political new year. This was one of the keys for figuring out Biblical Chronology.

Also, while type and anti-type are useful and definetly on the right track, it is not exactly perfect. Type and anti-type was a theory of a Catholic Priest of the dark ages who was trying to see a relationship that he saw in the Bible. And most of us as lay members should use it. However we also need to keep in the back of our memory that while this is close, it is not fully accurate. If we had more time it would be wise to study into the ancient cyclic thought, and realize that what we call "Type" is the local application from the time given, but what we call "anti-type" is that as things cycle around we find similar things to the original application.

For example the Hebrews came to the edges of the promised land. They sent spys, depending on where you read either 1, 2, or all 12 gave a good report, but the people refused the report and 2 stood up to the people. So they went into a 40 year cycle and then returned to the river bank. Since they had 2 who stood up to the people, they sent only 2 spys this time (i.e. sending only the faithful) then the cycle of the Reed sea parting had the jordan parting (which was another Reed Sea, another mass baptism for the next generation) and while the pagans saw the sea as rulled by the Chaos monster, the parting of the sea was seen as Yahweh having control over evil and for the evil Egyptains to be destroyed by the evil sea gives a message that evil destroys itself) and the Baal religions focus on Baal getting victory over the Leviathan, here Yahweh get's victory over the Leviathan and the evil destroyed it self. In the same way for the next cycle, Rahab (one of the names for leviathan, thus showing the character of this woman, she was Chaotic and seen by the Canaanites as a devil, she was the worst of the lot) And as Leviathan the sea destroyed the evil Egyptians, so the woman with the name of the Leviathan, Rahab, made it possible for the spys and thus the Hebrews to get over and destroy the evil Canaanites. Yet this worst of the Canaanites ends up being saved showing that the other Canaanites have no excuse God could have saved them as well if only they would let God save them. From this we can draw out into more cycles, especially aaround the cross and the final entering heaven and destruction of the wicked.

Also, we have to remember that these feasts were tied to the argraculture of the land and the two growing seasons, and thus they were celebrated by the Canaanites long before the Hebrews came. What lessons can we learn from these for dealing with popular holidays in our culture?

Then there are the later holidays of Purum and Hanukkah. While first fruits became the type for the resurection of Jesus, Hanukkah has become the type of the resurection of Lazarus and the resurection of the redeemed. And both Purum and Hanukkah have become types of the persecution and deliverance of the last days.

[skyblue888]

"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with GREATEST POWER, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power--all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven." G.C.606,607.

Before we read further, there are several points which need to be pondered in this paragraph. In the first case, it must be very clear that this is the description of the opening of the loud cry. These are not events which take place before, but at the very beginning of the giving of the loud cry after it has actually begun. The second sentence in the paragraph makes this clear, reading as it does as follows: "As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power..." the events thereafter enumerated then follow and would not follow or happen except that time had come, the time when the message is to be given with greatest power.

And what is that time? As obviously as it could be, it is that time when the mighty power of the Revelation 18 angel joins the third angel's message in the power of the latter rain to begin the loud cry of the final warning.

In the 1844 edition of The Great Controversy, p.424, the same sentence reads as follows: "As the time comes for the LOUD CRY to be given..." which makes it so clear that this is the time of the loud cry which is being described in the following sentences. What is described in those sentences are events which transpire under the loud cry.

to be continued

Continuing.

Further evidence to this is given as we read the very nature of the warning sounded. Page 603 reveals that Revelation 18 will be fulfilled during a time "when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel is REPEATED, with the ADDITIONAL MENTION of the CORRUPTIONS which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given in the summer of 1844."

That is to say then that the message of 1844 announced the fall of Babylon TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, but since that time there has been MUCH MORE of which she is guilty, and all of this is to be charged to her account in the FINAL WARNING.

Therefore, when the Revelation 18 angel really begins to sound, which is the time of the outpouring of the latter rain and the giving of the loud cry, we must expect to find that the additional corruptions begin at once to be mentioned under the mighty power and direction of the Spirit.

And right here in this paragraph under consideration we do find that these additional corruptions are being made plain. Here is the list of them:

"The fearful results of enforcing the observance of the church by the civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power..."

That covers it all pretty well and there is not another thing Babylon could do to increase her guilt, but not one of these three things was present in 1844. There was no move then to enforce the Sunday observance by law. It was not agitated or mentioned. Neither was spiritualism a great power in the churches, although it did begin to gain a grip on the churches immediately upon their rejection of the Advent message.

Finally, in those days the papal power was not a force to be reckoned with. In 1798 the deadly wound had been inflicted and thereafter the fortunes of the papacy reached a very low ebb indeed, so much so that many believed that she could never again rise to any position of world prominence.

In 1860, the papacy lost its lands in Italy except for the Vatican itself. While, from there on the papacy begun a slow at first but ever increasingly rapid climb back into a position of world power and prominence, at the time of the giving of the second angel's message in 1844, she was not a figure of world prominence anymore.

But at the time described in our reference on page 606 of The Great Controversy, "the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power... will be unmasked," proving beyond a doubt that we are here reading events within the early steps of the loud cry.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST IS SET UP

1. The time comes for the message to go with greatest power.

2. God calls His servants and fills them with His Spirit in latter rain power.

THE MESSAGE SWELLS TO A LOUD CRY

3. He sends them forth to give the final warning.

4. The sins of Babylon laid open.

5. Thousands upon thousands listen in astonishment.

6. There is a mighty stir.

7. Thus the battle is begun and rapidly grows in

intensity.

Now that this is clear in mind, we are ready to proceed with the next events on the order of last day events as the struggle during the loud cry develops to its final climax.

sky

[skyblue888]

The Loud Cry Develops

We are still studying the paragraph on page 606 of The Great Controversy, which as has already been shown, describes the opening events of the loud cry. Before reading further into this paragraph, there is a further point to be noticed and kept in mind as we proceed. It is that each of the events is dependent on the one before it, taking place before it can transpire. A quick revision of the opening events so far declared to us in this paragraph will show the truth of this.

First of all, the time comes for the message to be given with GREATEST POWER. That time having come and not before, the Lord begins to work through humble instruments qualifying them with the outpouring of His Spirit. The direct result of this which would be quite impossible otherwise, is that they are CONSTRAINED to go forth and declare the words of warning which the Lord will give them.

Thus empowered and directed they are able and do lay open the sins of Babylon with the next direct result that thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear that Babylon the Great is the fallen churches because of the rejection of the light and truth of Heaven. Thus matters have really begun to develop, and our interest naturally centres upon what is to happen next. Of this we are left in no doubt as we read directly on.

"As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears, and quiet the awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere authority of men and demand a plain 'Thus saith the Lord,' the popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan, and stir up the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it." Page 607.

Again notice that each of the events in their succession in this paragraph, is the natural and inevitable consequence of the one before it. It is a development of the earlier one as the conflict moves into the heat of that terrible battle.

sky

[skyblue888]

But observe too just what are the first measures which are to be adopted against the bearers of the message. Will it be bitter persecution, or the threat of death? At this stage it will not be anything drastic, for the leaders of the apostate churches do not put much account to the tiny remnant of the faithful. At that time the people of God will not be a great host. The Laodicean message is to effect a great shaking in the Advent Church before the Loud Cry begins as is plainly shown in Early Writings 269-271.

History has always shown that only a tiny minority come out on the right side of these tests by which the church is skaken, and so it will be again. In referring to the people of God at the time when the conflict opens, the Spirit of Prophecy speaks of them as "the LITTLE COMPANY who are standing in the light," and as "this FAITHFUL FEW." Testimonies, Vol.5,209,210.

When the Sunday Law is first passed it is not directed primarily to the people of God for they will be so small a minority, having absolutely neither voice nor influence in the affairs of men, that the churches will regard them as not even worth any consideration the one way or the other.

The Sunday Law will be brought in because the churches, having lost all the power of God because of their rejection of the truth sent to them from Heaven, have been powerless to stem the tide of evil which has swept over the world.

Seeing their own loss of face and fearing their own destruction as a result of reactionary forces caused by their own failure, their turn to the other source of power, the power of the state, to save themselves and the world from destruction.

This will be their motive, and the people of God will not even enter into their thinking in the whole matter, the situation finding a parallel in the experience of the Pharisees who thought that once they had put Christ to death, they had no more worries, so little account did they put by the church of Christ in that day. But how soon they were to learn that the Apostles were a mighty power to be reckoned with as reflected in their despairing and angry cry, "Ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrines." Acts 5:28.

to be continued

[Dr. Rich]

Now try reading what the truth about all of this is as the way Jesus gave it and found in the book of Revelation. Poor EGW did not have the pleasure of hindsight that the bond servants of Christ have today.

[Johnnboy]

Sky said,

“The last feast is the feast of Tabernacles...It is the last feast and its antitype is the jubile. These are the feasts.

There are no others.”

As I mentioned in my last post, in Leviticus 25:8-10, the Day of Atonement is connected with the Jubile, but not the Feast of Tabernacles.

“And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years;...Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth [day] of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound...” Leviticus 25:8-10

So I cannot agree with your statement, as you give no inspired evidence for it.

There is much more to understand in regard to the fall feasts in the seventh Sabbath year, the year of release, see Deuteronomy 31: 10-13—when the law of God was taught to the men, women, children, and the strangers during the Feast of Tabernacles, in the seventh Sabbath year—the 49th year, not the 50th year, the Jubile year. So in the antitype, in the seventh Sabbath year, in the Feast of Tabernacles, there is still probation for some people to be taught the law of God, specifically, the importance of receiving the seal of God and refusing the mark of the beast.

Sky, do you see this?

It must be “in like manner”—GC 399, 400, therefore, we must study “the manner” in which the Messiah fulfilled the feasts relating to His first advent, in order to understand “the manner” in which the types relating to His second advent will be completely fulfilled. The feasts were fulfilled not only as to “event” but as to the “time”. The fulfillment of the types relating to the second advent must be consistent with the type and with the Messiah's fulfillment of the types that He fulfilled at His first advent.

We have to believe what the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy tell us, we cannot go speculating on our own imaginations.

[skyblue888]

But observe too just what are the first measures which are to be adopted against the bearers of the message. Will it be bitter persecution, or the threat of death? At this stage it will not be anything drastic, for the leaders of the apostate churches do not put much account to the tiny remnant of the faithful. At that time the people of God will not be a great host. The Laodicean message is to effect a great shaking in the Advent Church before the Loud Cry begins as is plainly shown in Early Writings 269-271.

History has always shown that only a tiny minority come out on the right side of these tests by which the church is skaken, and so it will be again. In referring to the people of God at the time when the conflict opens, the Spirit of Prophecy speaks of them as "the LITTLE COMPANY who are standing in the light," and as "this FAITHFUL FEW." Testimonies, Vol.5,209,210.

When the Sunday Law is first passed it is not directed primarily to the people of God for they will be so small a minority, having absolutely neither voice nor influence in the affairs of men, that the churches will regard them as not even worth any consideration the one way or the other.

The Sunday Law will be brought in because the churches, having lost all the power of God because of their rejection of the truth sent to them from Heaven, have been powerless to stem the tide of evil which has swept over the world.

Seeing their own loss of face and fearing their own destruction as a result of reactionary forces caused by their own failure, their turn to the other source of power, the power of the state, to save themselves and the world from destruction.

This will be their motive, and the people of God will not even enter into their thinking in the whole matter, the situation finding a parallel in the experience of the Pharisees who thought that once they had put Christ to death, they had no more worries, so little account did they put by the church of Christ in that day. But how soon they were to learn that the Apostles were a mighty power to be reckoned with as reflected in their despairing and angry cry, "Ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrines." Acts 5:28.

to be continued

So it will be that when the churches of these last days secure the power of the state to enforce their decrees, they will think that they will have no more struggle in the world, but to their surprise and amazement they will find that A TINY AND INSIGNIFICANT COMPANY OF PEOPLE filled with a strange and wonderful power will arise to lay bare the true nature of their scheming. Yet even when these people of God first appear on the scene, the leaders will seriously underestimate the power which is with them, and will think that they can easily nullify their statements with arguments, whose only force will be the power of their own authority. For some this will be enough, but others will demand a plain "thus saith the Lord," which of course these men cannot supply from a Word which condemns in every phase and principle that which they are doing.

Thus it is plain and clear that the first measure used against the people of God after the loud cry has begun will not be persecution, but only argument based upon the authority of men. Certainly this is no great test for the people of God. To be able to meet successfully the arguments of those who oppose the truth is not a painful experience, but rather a stimulating one, even after making due allowance for the fact that there is a measure of sorrow in seeing otherwise intelligent and rational men, take a foolish and soul destroying stand against the God of Heaven.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Sky said,

“The last feast is the feast of Tabernacles...It is the last feast and its antitype is the jubile. These are the feasts.

There are no others.”

As I mentioned in my last post, in Leviticus 25:8-10, the Day of Atonement is connected with the Jubile, but not the Feast of Tabernacles.

“And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years;...Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth [day] of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound...” Leviticus 25:8-10

So I cannot agree with your statement, as you give no inspired evidence for it.

There is much more to understand in regard to the fall feasts in the seventh Sabbath year, the year of release, see Deuteronomy 31: 10-13—when the law of God was taught to the men, women, children, and the strangers during the Feast of Tabernacles, in the seventh Sabbath year—the 49th year, not the 50th year, the Jubile year. So in the antitype, in the seventh Sabbath year, in the Feast of Tabernacles, there is still probation for some people to be taught the law of God, specifically, the importance of receiving the seal of God and refusing the mark of the beast.

Sky, do you see this?

It must be “in like manner”—GC 399, 400, therefore, we must study “the manner” in which the Messiah fulfilled the feasts relating to His first advent, in order to understand “the manner” in which the types relating to His second advent will be completely fulfilled. The feasts were fulfilled not only as to “event” but as to the “time”. The fulfillment of the types relating to the second advent must be consistent with the type and with the Messiah's fulfillment of the types that He fulfilled at His first advent.

We have to believe what the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy tell us, we cannot go speculating on our own imaginations.

Are we not in the time of the anti-typical day of atonement since 1844 and will it not end when Christ makes the final atonement at the end of the loud cry at the time of the great final test? That being so, the feast of tabernacles begin at the deliverance of God's people at the time of the fifth plague.

So I really dont see your point as to the timing of this feast.

Sorry jb

sky

[skyblue888]

Despite the efforts of the clergy to suppress the truth, the message rapidly grows in power and influence.

"As the controversy extends into new fields and the minds of the people are called to God's downtrodden law, Satan is astir. THE POWER ATTENDING THE MESSAGE WILL ONLY MADDEN THOSE WHO OPPOSE IT. The clergy will put forth almost superhuman efforts to shut away the light lest it should shine upon their flocks. By every means at their command they will endeavor to suppress the discussion of these vital questions. The church appeals to the strong arm of civil power, and, in this work, papists and Protestants unite. As the movement for Sunday enforcement becomes more bold and decided, the law will be INVOKED against commandment keepers. They will be threatened with fines and imprisonment, and some will be offered positions of influence, and other rewards and advantages, as inducements to renounce their faith. But their steadfast answer is:'SHOW US FROM THE WORD OF GOD OUR ERROR'--the same plea that was made by Luther under similar circumstances. Those who are arraigned before the courts make a strong vindication of the truth, and some who hear them are led to take their stand to keep all the commandments of God. Thus light will be brought before thousands who otherwise would know nothing of these truths." The Great Controversy,607.

This paragraph reveals that we have come to the time when the battle will be heating up to full intensity and more definite measures will be taken by the churches against the true people of God. Care must be taken in studying this paragraph that we do not draw a wrong conclusion from the statement,'As the movement for Sunday enforcement becomes more bold and decided, the law will be INVOKED against commandment-keepers.' This could be understood to mean that the Sunday Law has not yet been passed at this stage until certain factors are considered.

In the first case we have seen before that the passing of the Sunday law sets up the image of the beast and accomplishes the complete spiritual fall of Babylon the Great. The message of the Loud Cry angel announces that Babylon the Great is fallen, and is therefore a message which cannot be sounded until the fact of it is accomplished. As surely as this is so, the Sunday Law has been passed before the Loud Cry begins, and as surely as the loud cry is in progress, so surely has the Sunday law been passed. Therefore the time referred to in the statement under study at this point, the Sunday law has already been passed for some time.

sky

[skyblue888]

"As the movement for Sunday enforcement becomes more bold and decided, the law will be INVOKED against commandment-keepers."

When this statement is read carefully it is seen that it does not say that the Sunday law is passed at this time. It says that the movevent for Sunday enforcement becomes more and more bold and decided, and as it does, the law is "invoked" against commandement-keepers.

The movement for Sunday law enforcement does not cease to exist when it has succeeded in having the Sunday law passed, especially when all that has been gained at that time is a general law. After the passing of the law the movement will remain very active in the field to see that the law is enforced, and as violations of it appear the movement will plead for more teeth to be put into that law so as to cover hitherto unforseen possibilities and infringements as is the case with all law making.

Having gained their earlier demands, and as they are confronted with this powerful protest from a minority group, the movement does indeed become more bold and decided in its efforts to enforce the already existing Sunday law. Hitherto the law was not directed against the Sabbath-keeper, but rather at the IRRELIGIOUS who had no regard for the worship of God at all, but now there is need to direct it against the SABBATH-KEEPER.

So as the now bolder and more decided movers for the Sunday law see this threat, they go to the civil power and succeed in having them "invoke" the law against the Sabbath-keeper. Now the word "invoke" means very literally "to call in" and you cannot call in something which does not already exist. The law does not exist primarily as a direct weapon to be used against Sabbath-keepers, but now that they have shown that they are powerfully and decidedly against the Sunday law enforcement, the law is called in specifically against them for the first time.

to be continued.

[BobRyan]

This is mainly to SDA’s but is also true to others, more and more is to come to light to he whom who lives on His Words. First, GW.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

"He will show you things to come"? To Historicists?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.

"To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word -- there is NO light in them" Isaiah 8.

"They studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so" Acts 17:11.

New light is always showing up - but it never undercuts destroys the light already given.

And when people claim to have new light that does little more than destroy the existing light - we may know that it is not the pure truth they are promoting.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

True Bob, but things are always comining in and lately fast, things that are not the truth. So it behooves us all to go to that Wonderful Word, the fountain, foundation and unchanging and unshifting like the sands of men's thological teachings and build upon the Rock instead of "theology" of men. Many have been coming in and lately fast. The watchmen on the wall need to be awakened or replaced with faithful ones.

Here is a read of EGW where she had become pretty discouraged as to where things had gone even back then and I'm sure this was after 1901 and maybe about 1903.

Read this one carefully please!

Alonzo T. Jones, C. H. Jones, and M. C. Wilcox.

My dear Brethren in Positions of Trust:

I received your letter this morning, and will respond at once. {PC 124.1}

"Brother Harper came to St. Helena last week especially to lay before me the question of the location of the General Conference soon to be held. He told me that the brethren and sisters of the Healdsburg church offered to entertain the delegates free of cost, if the General Conference would be held there. He asked if I had any preference to express. I told him that if the Healdsburg church proposed to entertain the delegates free, the Conference would be held at Healdsburg, if I had any voice in deciding this matter; for to hold it there would be much more in accordance with the light given to leave the cities as much as possible, than holding it in Oakland would be. {PC 124.2}

I thought that if the brethren and sisters at Healdsburg would do what I was told they were so desirous of doing, to hold the Conference there would be much more desirable than to hold it in Oakland at this time of the year. I knew that accommodations in Oakland for entertaining to large a company were very limited, and expensive. {PC 124.3}

I desire my personal preferences to have no special influence in determining where the Conference shall be held; for unless specially convinced by the Spirit of the Lord that it is my duty to be present, I will not attend, no matter where the meeting may be held. If I knew that I should have to attend the Conference, I might express my preference for Healdsburg as the location; for I could drive over, and have my horse and carriage there to use at any time, and to return when necessary. {PC 124.4}

At present, I most decidedly dread to attend either camp meetings or Conferences. When present at such meetings, I am reigned up to speak plainly and strongly in regard to matters; for I dare not do otherwise than to tell the truth. The burden that comes upon me at such times is very heavy. The experiences I have passed through in attending meetings since returning to America, have been most afflicting; for it seems as if my efforts are of none effect. The testimonies borne bring upon me a great burden of soul, and seem to accomplish so little to change the order of things. The testimonies are speculated upon, and do not reform existing evils. {PC 124.5}

Just now my courage is not the best. Since the Fresno camp meeting, I have carried the burden of the Southern field in direct opposition to the plans of leading brethren. I have lost confidence in some of these men as being taught and directed of God. If they are thus taught and directed, I am not teaching the way of the Lord. Therefore I am convinced that my place is at home. I can continue to write, if I avoid the crushing burdens that overwhelm me. And these burdens come upon me whenever I attend a meeting where there are men whom I know are not walking in the counsel of God. I care not to face such matters any longer; for it seems useless. I long for retirement, and I mean to have it, if it be the Lord's will to give it to me.'

(Signed) Ellen G. White

Question? What do you think she would say today if she wasn't too weary to speak about it?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Don't know, perhaps "I was wrong, please forgive me"??

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

This is mainly to SDA’s but is also true to others, more and more is to come to light to he whom who lives on His Words. First, GW.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

"He will show you things to come"? To Historicists?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.

"To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word -- there is NO light in them" Isaiah 8.

"They studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so" Acts 17:11.

New light is always showing up - but it never undercuts destroys the light already given.

And when people claim to have new light that does little more than destroy the existing light - we may know that it is not the pure truth they are promoting.

in Christ,

Bob

If the 'existing light' is shown to be not in accordance with Scriptures and clearly proven to be so by the 'new light', which is pure truth: the 'existing' or the 'new'?