Increased Light? On What?

[phkrause]

Are you asking me if I agree? Yes I do. Or are you agreeing with what I said?

I'm gonna say I think your asking me if I agree with your post!

[skyblue888]

hahaha

I believe we might have the answer to your question

in G.C.443, bottom of the page.

sky :)

[Kevin H]

Apostate Protestantism and the Papacy have already given it's power and authority to the beast, they then got the Communists in line and now working on the Muslims.

[miz3]

Apostate Protestantism and the Papacy have already given it's power and authority to the beast, they then got the Communists in line and now working on the Muslims.

Even communist China?

[Kevin H]

That they are still working on, may lead to nuclear war, which Revelation predicts the 2 horned beast will be victorious. But the fallout, along with our pollution and global warming will being it to quick chaos and blaming those who refused to go along with the system for these plagues. Good post Miz3!!!

[miz3]

How about atheist America and Europe?

America is no longer a Christian Nation. Europe hates God.

[Gibs]

miz 3, I think you are right on the above.

And another thing has come to mind, is Apostasy increased light or decreased light?

EGW, speaks,

"It was apostasy that led the early church to seek the aid of the civil government, and this prepared the way for the development of the papacy--the beast. Said Paul: "There" shall "come a falling away, . . . and that man of sin be revealed." 2 Thessalonians 2:3. So apostasy in the church will prepare the way for the image to the beast". {GC 443.4}

Something to think about believers in EGW. I am a believer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

another good point Miz3, as we look for a return to the papacy being the entire beast we are going to miss it. Athiest America and Europe will be naturally a part of the world wide ecconomic system. The papacy is willing to just be a voice of conscience for this system and even Athiests think it's good to have some kind of moral standing, and thus the Papacy is fulfilling what is actually predicted, but since it does not meet our tradition as to how we expect the prophecy to be fulfilled, we are going to ignore thise fulfillments of prophecy while we wait around for our traditons to be met.

[BobRyan]

How about atheist America and Europe?

America is no longer a Christian Nation. Europe hates God.

Rev 13 - signs and wonders precede the image to the beast, the mark of the beast etc.

Signs and wonders are "game changing events".

There were no concentration camps in America until WWII and the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

There were no body scanners showing the naked body until 911.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

The Papacy soon will be seen isn't the greatest power in this wicked old world. She has to knuckles down to one that is greater from a few reads I've done. It is reported some high Rabbi's of zionist Israel has put the present Pope in his place a couple of times now. More of the world catters to Israel these days than to the Papacy, the USA for one does.

I've stated it before, if the prophecy is properly discerned the Papacy is but ONE of the heads o the beast, it has 6 other heads and 10 horns crowned, means have the king power now. The Papacy is shown to be but the sixth head of this world beast system of Satans.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

Oh, another thing about "athiest America and Europe" is the rise of the supernatural we will see and Satan's counterfit coming as Christ to encourage us to go along with the system. Many athiests will give up their athiesm because seeing is believing and there they see "Christ" and give to this being their worship. But it will be a god who caters to their selfishness or forces them no other choice but to worship him.

[skyblue888]

It is extremely important that we study THE ROLE OF SPIRITUALISM in the setting up of the Image of the beast in the United States of America and in all the world.

In the work of restoration of the Beast and his Image in these last days, the role of SPIRITUALISM is not to be overlooked, for it will play a major part in this return to power of ecclesiastical oppression.

"Satan has long been preparing for his final effort to deceive the world... little by little he has prepared the way for his masterpiece of deception in the development of SPIRITUALISM... Even in its present form, so far from being more worthy of toleration than formerly, it is really a more dangerous, because a more subtle, deception. While it formerly denounced Christ and the Bible, IT NOW PROFESSES TO ACCEPT BOTH. But the Bible is interpreted in a manner that is pleasing to the unrenewed heart, while its solemn and vital truths are made of no effect. LOVE IS DWELT UPON AS THE CHIEF ATTRIBUTE OF GOD, BUT IT IS DEGRADED TO A WEAK SENTIMENTALISM, making little distinction between good and evil." The Great Controversy,561, 558.

In Matthew 24:24, we are warned that in the last days "There shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

The ones against whom we are warned, appearing in plural numbers in these last days are false Christs and false prophets. They come NOT AS OPENED ENEMIES OF THE TRUTH, but as COUNTERFEITS OF THE REAL. Among those who are opposed to God's living truths are men so polite, courteous, helplful, calm and nice that you would ask yourself, How could such a person ever be the enemy of God? Outwardly he bears all the marks of conversion. Surely from all I can see of this man he is a true child of God!

But do not be deceived. That is not the test. The ministers of unrighteousness come among us as angels of light to deceive and draw back God's people. In these last days we will have miracles, genuine, undeniable miracles of apparent conversions, worked by Satan's ministers. They will teach a message which appears to be the doctrine of Christ. It will look the same and sound the same, but God's true people will know by His Word that it is not the same because there are distinct differences.

"Genious, sympathy, even generous deeds, may become decoys of Satan to entice other souls over the precipice of ruin for this life and the life to come." MB 94,95.

"To a superficial observer, persons who are naturally amiable, who are educated and refine, may appear perfect in life," (F.W.32) but do not be deceived, for

"I saw that the mysterious signs and wonders, and false reformations would increase, and spread. The reformations that were shown me, were not reformations from error to truth, but from bad to worse; for those who professed a change of heart, had only wrap about them a religious garb, which covered up the iniquity of a wicked heart. Some appeared to have been really converted, as to deceive God's people, but if their hearts could be seen, they would appear as black as ever." E.G.White, and Her Critics, by F.D. Nichol p.222.(Present Truth, Aug.1849, pp.21,22).

sky

to be continued

[skyblue888]

In the book of Revelation, it is made clear that there will be in the final and finishing conflict, a vast gathering of the powers of earth, and that this gathering will be accomplished through the work of the spirits of devils, WORKING MIRACLES. It is also made clear that this vast confederacy of earthly power will be gathered together in opposition against the God of Heaven and against the Lamb, but that in the end the Lord will be the victor in the battle. See Isaiah 8:9-16.

Now these very same miracle working spirits of devils will be the prime agency in the bringing into being the Image of the Beast. This is expressly stated in Revelation 13:11-18. What is this fire that comes down from heaven (first heaven of course)?

Today men in the religious world are looking for the fulfilment of the second Pentecost. In Joel 2:28-32, is foretold the mighty outpouring of the Spirit in the last days. When this true work comes it will be the work of the true Christ and His workers, and the Devil and his evil spirits of devils fears the mighty power to be exercised in this movement.

They will work with all their deceptive power to mislead souls. To do this they will seek to counterfeit the real before it comes so that many will be misled and deceived into a snare before the real movement comes. In this way they miss out on the true because they have become part of the false.

"I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventist and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant." Early Writings, p.261.

The above prophecy from the Book of Joel has already had a fulfilment in the experience of the Apostles at Pentecost. On that day, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and therefore speaking the truth of God, Peter said, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Acts 2:16. It was in that day when the words of Joel were first fulfilled that "fire came down from Heaven in the sight of men" as a testtimony that the Holy Spirit had come in power on the people of God. That was a demonstration of the way in which this prophecy was to be fulfilled and the devil knows it. Inasmuch as he is determined to appear as Christ with the power of God, he will make it appear that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit has come, that Pentecost is being repeated.

The coming down of the fire from heaven which marked the descent of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, was immediately followed by miracles of healing. Likewise we can expect to see miracles of healing sweeping through those churches who, having rejected the light of truth and the message of Sabbath reform, have opened the door to the inroads of spiritualism. And in these expectations we shall not be disappointed in our trust of the sure word of prophecy, for already this thing is being fulfilled before our very eyes. Today there is present in many of the churches a movement of power associated with which are miracles of healing so genuine as to be undeniable.

"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men and deceived them that dwell upon the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by the sword and did live."

So the whole objective of the bringing of false fire from heaven, the whole objective of working miracles and therefore, the whole objective of the spirits of devils in the last days is to bring into existence the formation of the Image of the Beast.

sky

[skyblue888]

"Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deception. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The PROTESTANTS of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of SPIRITUALISM, and they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the ROMAN POWER; and under the influence of this three fold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling the rights of conscience." G.C.588; please read 552-560.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Rev.16:13-14.

"Many will be confronted by the spirits of devils personating beloved relatives or friends and declaring the most dangerous heresies. These visitants will appeal to our tenderest sympathies and will work miracles to sustain their pretensions. We must be prepared to withstand them with the Bible truth that the dead know not anything and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils... The Apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth." G.C. 560,557.

We have the plainest warning that through the teaching of the immortality of the soul, the spirits of devils will make fire come down from heaven, which is to make it appear that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. With equal clarity we have been warned that the spirits of devils have power to do miracles in the sight of men. Therefore we know that it is not safe to accept every appearance of the "Holy Spirit" and every miracle as a witness of the presence of the power of God. More likely it is the counterfeit abroad in its work of deception.

That this is not the work of the Spirit of God is evident from the fact that these people have rejected the message of truth for this time. They are of those who, having rejected the mssages of God sent to the churches in the 1844 period, have fallen lower and lower and further and further into the grip of spiritualism.

sky

[skyblue888]

"The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves, and are ready to join with them; and Satan determines to unite them in one body, and thus strengthens his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of SPIRITUALSIM. Catholics, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this miracle working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deceived. Catholics, Protestants and worldlings, will alike accept the form of godliness without the power and they will see in this union a grand movement for the conversion of the world and the ushering in of the long expected millinium." G.C. 588, 589.

But the true people of God will not be deceived. They will know that the work of these forces will be upholding error and not truth. But when Jesus at last appears in the clouds of heaven, then the true children of God will say, "Lo, this is our God. We have waited for Him. We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation." Isaiah 25:9.

sky

[skyblue888]

There is yet another means that the Devil uses in his efforts to bring all the people into subjection to himself and that is the instrument of CALAMITY and TROUBLE. While on the one hand through spiritualism he heals the people and thus appears as the benefactor of the race, on the other hand he works in his true role of destroyer.

This is brought to view very clearly in the way in which he afflicted Job, the servant of God. It was he who swept away all of Job's possessions but it was God who was blamed for it by those who came to see and to "comfort" Job.

But Satan was able to go only so far as the Lord allowed him and no more. So today still,

"It is God that shields His creatures, and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world has shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would, He will withdraw His blessings from the earth, and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law; and teaching and forcing others to do the same." G.C.589.

This leaves the door open for Satan to work his will. He will not treat all the same as it will best suit his purpose.

"Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will FAVOR and PROSPER SOME, in order to further his own designs; and he will BRING TROUBLE UPON OTHERS, and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them." Ibid, p.589.

In the book of Job we have some revelation of the power of Satan to control the elements of nature.

There storm and tempest came at his call to sweep the possessions of God's faithful servant. Since that time his learning and skill have advanced and he has even more power to destroy today. Thus we read,

"While appearing to the children of men as the great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster until populous cities are reduced to ruin and to destruction. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hail-storms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast.'The earth mourneth and fadeth away. The haughty people do languish. The earth is defiled under the inhabitants thereof, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, broken the everlasting covenant." Isa.24:4,5; G.C.590.

It is Satan's constant effort to make it appear that these calamities and disasters are visited upon the earth by the direct decree of God. But

"It is THUS that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work... God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." G.G.35,36.

sky

[Lysimachus]

The Papacy soon will be seen isn't the greatest power in this wicked old world. She has to knuckles down to one that is greater from a few reads I've done. It is reported some high Rabbi's of zionist Israel has put the present Pope in his place a couple of times now. More of the world catters to Israel these days than to the Papacy, the USA for one does.

I've stated it before, if the prophecy is properly discerned the Papacy is but ONE of the heads o the beast, it has 6 other heads and 10 horns crowned, means have the king power now. The Papacy is shown to be but the sixth head of this world beast system of Satans.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Look at it from the Little Horn Power of Daniel 7 or the Man of Sin of 2nd Thessalonians 2.

The Papacy and the Jesuits want us to think that they aren't the greatest power in this wicked world.

They have more power than the world even begins to imagine. It is just not visible yet. But it will be. And Lucifer, will ensure it, by taking the lead of the Vatican.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

The Papacy soon will be seen isn't the greatest power in this wicked old world. She has to knuckles down to one that is greater from a few reads I've done. It is reported some high Rabbi's of zionist Israel has put the present Pope in his place a couple of times now. More of the world catters to Israel these days than to the Papacy, the USA for one does.

I've stated it before, if the prophecy is properly discerned the Papacy is but ONE of the heads o the beast, it has 6 other heads and 10 horns crowned, means have the king power now. The Papacy is shown to be but the sixth head of this world beast system of Satans.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Look at it from the Little Horn Power of Daniel 7 or the Man of Sin of 2nd Thessalonians 2.

The Papacy and the Jesuits want us to think that they aren't the greatest power in this wicked world.

They have more power than the world even begins to imagine. It is just not visible yet. But it will be. And Lucifer, will ensure it, by taking the lead of the Vatican.

Exactly.

"The papal church will never relinquish her claim to infallibility. All that she has done in her persecution of those who reject her dogmas she holds to be right; and would she not repeat the same acts, should the opportunity be presented? Let the restraints now imposed by secular governments be removed and Rome be reinstated in her former power, and there would speedily be a revival of her tyranny and persecution." G.C.564.

sky

[phkrause]

The Papacy soon will be seen isn't the greatest power in this wicked old world. She has to knuckles down to one that is greater from a few reads I've done. It is reported some high Rabbi's of zionist Israel has put the present Pope in his place a couple of times now. More of the world catters to Israel these days than to the Papacy, the USA for one does.

I disagree with this Gibs. You need to show me where Rabbi's have put the Pope in his place.

[Lysimachus]

Quote:

In homage to the Papacy the United States will not be alone. The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged her dominion, is still far from being destroyed. {Mar 188.2}

In the last conflict the Sabbath will be the special point of controversy throughout all Christendom. Secular rulers and religious leaders will unite to enforce the observance of the Sunday; and as milder measures fail, the most oppressive laws will be enacted. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the land ought not to be tolerated. . . . Romanism in the Old World, and apostate Protestantism in the New, will pursue a similar course toward those who honor the divine precepts. {Mar 188.3}

The so-called Christian world is to be the theater of great and decisive actions. Men in authority will enact laws controlling the conscience, after the example of the Papacy. Babylon will make all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Every nation will be involved. [Revelation 18:3-7 quoted.] {Mar 188.4}

The warning of the third angel [of Revelation 14] . . . is represented in the prophecy as being proclaimed with a loud voice, by an angel flying in the midst of heaven; and it will command the attention of the world. {Mar 188.5}

In the issue of the contest all Christendom will be divided into two great classes--those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark. Although church and state will unite their power to compel "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond" (Revelation 13:16), to receive "the mark of the beast," yet the people of God will not receive it. The prophet of Patmos beholds "them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God" and singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Revelation 15:2, 3. {Mar 188.6}

He exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. Revelation 13:12. {Mar 169.1}

In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. . . . {Mar 169.2}

The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. . . . {Mar 169.3}

When Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshiping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome--"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast.". . . {Mar 169.4}

In the issue of the contest all Christendom will be divided into two great classes--those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark. Although church and state will unite their power to compel "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond" (Revelation 13:16), to receive "the mark of the beast," yet the people of God will not receive it. The prophet of Patmos beholds "them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God" and singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Revelation 15:2, 3. {Mar 169.5}

Rome won't be the "big power" behind the scenes in the last days? Think again Gibs. I could quote you oodles of EGW quotes.

She's not just stating "what she thinks". She's stating what will be. She's making this a definite prediction!

Keep it simple, and do not read more into the Bible texts than they read. Pretend Revelation does not exist, and think of it on a "broad-simple panoramic view" from Daniel 7's and 2 Thessalonian 2's perspective.

Revelation just zeroes in on details, but the Little Horn is good enough to know that the Papacy WILL BE the final power behind the scenes before the very end comes.

Many Adventists and "offshoots" in the last days will discover that they were wasting their time trying to read "different things", and make up foolish stuff that Ellen White "didn't have all the light".

They're going to find out that the little old lady actually knew what she was talking about.

Remember, had Ellen White changed her views on the Lamb-Like Beast not being the United States and the supremacy of the Papacy not being so poignant in the "last great conflict", she would have had the final 1911 edition revamped before her death in 1915.

The last edition of the GC was fully approved by her before her death.

[Lysimachus]

Gibs,

You sure are good at pointing out apostasy in the SDA Church (and it is true, we need to be sighing and crying for the abominations done)--there is no doubt much apostasy.

However, when you make statements like that--that the "Papacy won't be the big power" in the last days, this puts you in a worse position than the apostates in the SDA Church. Anyone who can see apostasy in the SDA Church will also be one to to perceive that Rome is the greatest powerhouse in the last great deception. To ignore this is to become worse off than the worst apostates within Adventism.

In fact, if anything, the real "apostasy" being manifested is in leaders who are downplaying the power of Rome in these last days, and making her out to look not so bad. Yet you wish to do the same thing? Isn't this hypocritical? The irony. How can you accuse them when you appear to be in the same boat?

[Guest]

Interesting, Marcos.

[Gibs]

Well Lys, We'll just have to wait and see, and I know it isn't long to wait, but times are going to be rough, and short times will seem long.

I would just point out the king power is no longer on the heads but on the horns of the beast here in chapter 13 of Rev. That is a positive indicator the power has shifted.

Now here is a statement from EGW,

" I saw that the two-horned beast had a dragon's mouth, and that his power was in his head, and that the decree would go out of his mouth. Then I saw the Mother of Harlots; that the mother was not the daughters, but separate and distinct from them. She has had her day, and it is past, and her daughters, the Protestant sects, were the next to come on the stage and act out the same mind that the mother had when she persecuted the saints. I saw that as the mother has been declining in power, the daughters had been growing, and soon they will exercise the power once exercised by the mother". {SpM 1.4}

If you notice no religious system has had King power since the deadly wound in 1798, which put an end to Martyrdom, at least without recompense.

But the world it seems as a whole is catering more to Israel all the time.

Anyway I have no steam back on this but I do see different and I hope I still have that freedom.

I pray blesings for all to have our eyes opened to see the truth of these things..

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

"The papal church will never relinquish her claim to infallibility. All that she has done in her persecution of those who reject her dogmas she holds to be right; and would she not repeat the same acts, should the opportunity be presented? Let the restraints now imposed by secular governments be removed and Rome be reinstated in her former power, and there would speedily be a revival of her tyranny and persecution." G.C.564.

Read the abvove with this passage of Scripture:

"For the mystery of iniquity does already work; only he who now hinders will continue to hinder until he is taken out of the way." 2 Thess.2:7.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

"The papal church will never relinquish her claim to infallibility

I've heard on the news a number of times when the Vatican has apologized for wrong actions.