Increased Light? On What?

[Lysimachus]

Kevin,

For me there is no doubt about it, she began to see the the USA could not be the beast of Rev 13:11.

You have no evidence for this whatsoever. She makes it abundantly clear in many other of her writings that the USA is the Lamb-Like Beast of Revelation 13. In NUMEROUS places. This is a no-brainer. Not even something to debate about. It's a closed case. We have quoted to you the abundant statements before. The Great Controversy is NOT the only book where she mentions that the Lamb-Like Beast is the power representing the United States of America, in case you forgot.

[skyblue888]

Sky, Lysi, Here is an example of what is in the G. C. book.

"It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns, and that this prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy."{GC 578.3}

Gibs

______________

It is the Holy Spirit who is stating the truth in that statement and nothing but the truth. I read your commentary but I can't for the life of me figure out what you are trying to say. As to the number 666 I suggest you double check with A Word To The Little Flock and you will see that on page 19 Ellen White is saying that this number has not been made up yet and will not be made up until the buy-and-sell decree. I realize not many adventits know this but it is plainly told there on that page in that booklet where she also says that this number is not the number of the beast but the number of the image beast.

sky

______

Here is the quote:

"I saw all that 'would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his image, in their foreheads or in their hands,' could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the image Beast was made up; and that it was the Beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast followed on after, and kept the Pope's, and not God's Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God's Sabbath, and keep the Pope's, and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image." E.G. White, A Word To The Little Flock, p.19.

sky

[Lysimachus]

The "two horns like a lamb" well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles,--Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. Those who first found an asylum on the shores of America, rejoiced that they had reached a country free from the arrogant claims of popery and the tyranny of kingly rule. They determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. {ST, February 8, 1910 par. 6}

But the stern tracings of the prophetic pencil reveal a change in this peaceful scene. The beast with lamblike horns speaks with the voice of a dragon, and "exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him." Prophecy declares that he will say to them that dwell on the earth, "that they should make an image to the beast," and that it will cause "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Thus Protestantism is to follow in the steps of the Papacy. {Signs of the Times, February 8, 1910 par. 7}

Notice what year this is: 1910.

It was in 1980 that she was saying that the one calling fire down from heaven is Satan. Keep in mind that many times prophecies have a "dual" application, if not even triple.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Kevin,

For me there is no doubt about it, she began to see the the USA could not be the beast of Rev 13:11.

You have no evidence for this whatsoever. She makes it abundantly clear in many other of her writings that the USA is the Lamb-Like Beast of Revelation 13. In NUMEROUS places. This is a no-brainer. Not even something to debate about. It's a closed case. We have quoted to you the abundant statements before. The Great Controversy is NOT the only book where she mentions that the Lamb-Like Beast is the power representing the United States of America, in case you forgot.

True.

sky

[Gibs]

Lys,

You need to read my posts better, I just proved it, here it is again in part, EGW,

" In Revelation we read concerning Satan: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:13-17). . . . {3SM 393.1}

She quotes Rev. 13:3-17 and here is the two verses before it,

Re 13:11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Did you notice the context don't allow you to separate verse 11 from verse 13?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Satan will use the false prophet (apostate protestantism) to call fire down from heaven, not literal fire of course, but spiritual fire, a counterfeit descent of the Holy Spirit.

"Before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and make their stand with the remnant." E.W.261.

sky

[Kevin H]

Ok, I appologize if I'm wrong, but I think I see where you might be coming from as it sounds like where I was a few years ago, seeing Satan's counterfit coming as the antichrist, and you do have a point.

A couple of things that I have since learned that if you find this useful I hope it helps, if not, or if I am wrong about where you are coming from, then I understand, just keep on studying.

In Revelation 12 we find a red dragon with 7 heads who chases the woman into the wilderness. In Revelation 13 we have a beast with 7 heads who is eventually being ridden by a woman from the wilderness, and a beast with 2 horns like a lamb.

The Dragon is Satan and all demonomic actvity working directly. The beast, as a whole is any organized group that we place in place of Christ in our life, through the 7 periods of history from where the Lord could have set up his kingdom had the Hezikiah Reformation spread throught the world, until the actual setting up of the kingdom: Those periods being Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece, Rome, The Holy Roman Empire (with Papal Supremicy), the deadly wound with the 10 horns and the crowns on the horns instead of the head (the period of independent nations) and the deadly wound being healed. In Revelation 18 the first to mourn at the fall of Babylon is the Merchants of the Earth with a long shopping list of expensive items from all over the world (which would be difficult to have this commerse at a time of war, indicating that there is a time of peace and prosperity, and a modern term for the merchants of the earth would be the corporations. So the 7th head instead of being the Pope is the global military industrual state).

The woman is the church, first as God's virgin bride being chased into the wilderness by the dragon, but then ends up coming from the wilderness as the rider of the beast as a woman who has been corupted by the system.

And we have the two horned beast who starts out like a lamb (Christlike, Christ is the only lamb in Revelation; but ends up speaking like a dragon- Satan, the only dragon n Revelation.)

Yes, we find originally Mrs. White applys this to the US, but then she expands it to Apostate Protestantism. However we are seeing Apostate Protestatism gaining control of the US govermnemt changing it from the American Republic into supporting the military industrual state.

Satan will come impersinating Christ, but that will be a visible representative of the red dragon. We have in Revalation a cast of characters each playing their role, however we have tended to apply the above 4 roles to only 2 characters, Satan and the Pope and have them jumping between the characters. It becomes difficult when we have the woman riding the beast, which we have as the Pope riding the Pope. You seem to have rightfully seen this complication, but end up applying Satan to it. Now Satan is playing a role in this, but so does the 7th head and the 2 horned beast.

Now we also tend to make Revelation have 2 women, one pure the other corupt, however we see a woman being chased into the wilderness and the story does not give an end, but a "To be continued..." Then later we find the woman and the wilderness again, and John says that when he saw HER he was astonished (horrified or other intence feelings of being sick to the stomach). Now John saw many things out of the ordnary and none of these astonished him; what astonished him was seeing what the Chruch had become. It's the same woman. Instead of being chased by the dragon, she becomes the ringmaster of this circus of beasts.

As to the fire coming down from heaven, that was a symbol that Mrs. White gave an interpetation. With Elijah only Elijah was able to call fire down from heaven. But here the false prophet is able to call fire down from heaven. To Mrs. White this is that the conterfit is complete, that this system appears to be right. The church says it's right, The good old United States says it's right, Satan appearing as Christ says it's right, and when we say "I'm sorry but this person who appears to be Jesus is actually Satan" will reply "How can Satan cast out Satan?" we will feel like we are lost for rejecting all of this. The Bible will suffer blows similar to what Walter Rea did with Mrs. White and people will reject the Bible because it does not fit their fundamentalist mentality, and why trust that untrustworthy old book that copied from others when here is Jesus and the Apostels, and my loved ones back from the dead, Grandma, Mrs. White, all here telling us what they really meant so that we don't need the imperfections of their writings. However we do what is right because it is right and hold to the word of God, even though we are going through what Jesus went through in the Garden, not being able to see through the tomb. No longer having the selfishness of wanting to go to heaven. We have given up heaven out of wanting to be true to the Bible and true to the God of the Bible, even thought it means that we reject this being we see and our senses say that he is Jesus.

[Kevin H]

Yesterday I posted an article about the major role that the Pope is playing in the building of this system. Few have looked at it and only Sky replied but if I have not misunderstood Sky's post, it seemed like a "We don't have to worry about this, we start worrying when the Pope fulfills our tradition about what the role of the Pope in the last days will be" when I see this article as the fulfillment of what Mrs. White and the Bible predicted about the Pope (of course this comes from the traditon that sees the Pope as the WHOLE beast instead of seeing the Pope as a part of the 5th head and that he would be playing a role in the formation of the 7th head)

Gibs

____________

"We don't have to worry about this, we start worrying when the Pope fulfills our tradition about what the role of the Pope in the last days will be"

Please Gibs, if you are going to quote my words, quote them as posted k? Because these are not my words you have quoted. What i have said is that for now the focus is not to be on the Pope per se but on the United States where church and state are to unite to enforce Sunday worship. The papacy cannot regain her lost supremacy until this is fulfilled. The image of the beast must first be made in the US and every country on the globe to follow her example in making an image to the beast enforcing Sunday worship and then when apostate protestantism shall give her power and authority to the papacy, then her wound will be healed, not before. This is what I have said.

sky

Actually Gibs was quoting my post as we were talking about our dissagreements, and I was the one trying to write how I understood your post. I'm sorry for misquoting (however what I just read here still sounds like what I understood in the other post). Gibs is pointing out how Mrs. White goes beyond our tradition, but seems to be taking this to places that I cannot see myself comfortable with, and you seem to be holding a bit to much to tradition. A bit too much of what Willie White complained about, how we had gotten to a place where we are either not progressing, just saying the same old stuff, or having new stuff but which is not based on where the Lord has lead us.

But let's not let Gibs suffer for my mistake.

[Lysimachus]

Satan will use the false prophet (apostate protestantism) to call fire down from heaven, not literal fire of course, but spiritual fire, a counterfeit descent of the Holy Spirit.

"Before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and make their stand with the remnant." E.W.261.

sky

Right, that's what Gibs doesn't get. Satan is working THROUGH these beast powers.

Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

There is dual imagery being applied here. The United States of America is represented as the Lamb-Like Beast. It is basically an "image" to Antichrist, when it forms an image to the Papacy. Thus, Satan is manifesting himself through this power, making fire come down from heaven.

Remember, anyone who calls fire down from heaven, and it is not of God, then it is Satan causing the fire to come down from heaven.

Not too hard to figure out.

Satan possesses beasts, just like he possessed the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

[Lysimachus]

Here are some GREAT ARTICLES:

The Two-Horned Beast and the New World Order - Part 1:

http://www.hearingthetruth.org/chapter10.pdf

The Two-Horned Beast and the New World Order - Part 2:

http://www.hearingthetruth.org/chapter11.pdf

[Gibs]

Thanks Kevin, I was a little mistifyed there for a bit and I'm sure Sky understands. What EGW brought out is there is increasing light and all things need to be gone over and that she revealed were some of the expositions of things set forth.

Yes there is increasing light as the Word is discerned in it's time especially of the prophecies.

My original post and her statement in it need to be reread and it is easy, when one comes here to comment click "full screen" at bottom of the comment box then scroll down and there is the original post to view and comment on.

I especially like this verse these days,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

"He will show you things to come"? To Historicists?

Yes I am a believer, "there is things to come" and he tells me He will "show" me. Of course by His Word.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

Quote:

Divine Fire and Its Counterfeit

Ángel Manuel Rodríguez

Revelation 13:13 states that the false prophet "works great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth."* What does that mean?

Fire is an interesting symbol in the book of Revelation. Most of the time it is a symbol of God's judgment against the wicked (e.g., Rev. 8:5; 14:10), which at times preserves the servants of God (Rev. 11:5). It is often associated with the G odhead. For instance, John saw in the heavenly sanctuary "seven torches of fire," identified as a symbol of the Spirit (Rev. 4:5). Fire is also related to Christ: "His eyes were like a flame of fire" (Rev. 1:14; cf. Rev. 2:18; 19:12); "His legs [were] like pillars of fire" (Rev. 10:1).

Fire in the Bible is a theophanic (manifesting deity) element. Often when God manifests Himself to humans, His presence is compared to or is associated with fire. Possibly the most important example in the Old Testament is the experience of the Israelites at Mount Sinai: "And Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire" (Ex. 19:18). His fiery appearance indicates His presence in a particular place while remaining distant and unapproachable because of His holiness.

The expression "fire came down from heaven" is also used in Revelation 20:9. In this case fire is an instrument of divine judgment against evil forces that attempt to take by force the Holy City. This usage is different from the one recorded in Revelation 13:13. The false prophet makes fire come from heaven in order to deceive the dwellers of the earth. The incident of Elijah on Mount Carmel provides the biblical background for this symbolism.

The Israelites had been worshiping Baal, and the prophet confronted them with a choice: the Lord or Baal. Elijah indicated that the true God would reveal Himself by making fire come down from heaven (1 Kings 18:20-39). Baal was unable to meet the requirement. Elijah prayed, the fire of the Lord fell from heaven, and the people shouted, "The Lord, he is God." The miracle was a clear manifestation of the Lord's presence and served to identify the true God over against a false one.

Revelation 13:13 describes an attempt to falsify the presence of God through miraculous activities in order to persuade the dwellers of the earth that in the cosmic conflict the evil powers represent the true God. As a result of this false theophany, many will worship the dragon and the beast (verses 4, 12).

The greatest genuine theophany ever witnessed by the human race is about to take place. Paul refers to it as "the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior" Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13). This unprecedented event will take place at the Lord's second coming.

The symbolism of making fire come down from heaven indicates that the false prophet will try to validate or authenticate his pretended divine mission to the world through the performance of miracles. But I'll venture, based on the previous paragraphs, a more specific interpretation.

In the descriptions of our Saviour's return in the New Testament, fire plays an important theophanic function. The one who is coming back is our "God and Savior." A good example is found in 2 Thessalonians 1:7: "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire." It appears to me that for the apostle, the symbol of fire coming down from heaven points to the glorious event of the second coming of Christ. Then it will be transparently clear to the human race and to the evil forces that Christ is indeed our true God and Saviour.

If this suggestion is accepted, we could conclude that Revelation 13:13 describes an attempt on the part of the evil powers to imitate Christ's second coming in order to deceive the human race. "And no wonder," Paul wrote, "for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14 ).

Let me remind you that the evil forces have no power over those who belong to the Lord. They were defeated by Him, and His victory is our victory. They will never be able to imitate perfectly the Lord's coming. They "will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

___________

*Scripture references are from the Revised Standard Version.

Taken from here:

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/Biblequestions/divinefire.htm

In light of the article above, it makes ALL the sense in the world why the Lamb-Like Beast as a "he" is also represented as Satan calling fire down from heaven.

Let us remember that it Satan who will speak as a Dragon THROUGH the United States. So who is really doing the calling?

Satan!

Just like the Dragon also gives power unto the Beast, likewise, it possesses and gives power unto the Lamb-Like Beast. Satan and these powers are "one and the same".

[miz3]

So Ellen White said two things about Revelation chapter 13 second part.

One, she said that it referred to the United States.

Two, she said that it referred to Satan.

Was Ellen White confused?

[Gibs]

I don't think EGW was confused but it came to her that it could not be true so she did post what she saw to be the truth, but as she wasn't the "king" she didn't dare to come out with the correction. U. Smith I'm afraid would have stood in the way.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Either way Ellen White clearly corrected herself or she was confused.

If she corrected herself then that is fine but it shows that what Ellen White had written before was not "direct from God".

Good Luck in getting the SDA Church .org faithful to agree with that even if you have Ellen White's own words. They play dancin' games with it because they cannot ever face the FACT that Ellen White would ever need correction. In their minds Ellen White was perfect from start to finish.

[Lysimachus]

miz3,

I don't think she was confused. It's just because its both.

[Gibs]

Never the less is this increasing light or not ye all. If it is not is this quote a lie by EGW? No she just saw increaseing light.

"In Revelation we read concerning Satan: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:13-17). . . . {3SM 393.1}

And folks it really can be no other way, the USA isn't the player for sure, it is to clear! Don't become excited, just receive as it reads without preconceived ideas and afraid of going agaist EGW as you see above you are not!

There is no sense in hanging up a dry shirt on the line to dry!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

There is nothing here but wild speculations about what Mrs. White is saying in regard to the image beast and Satan. Of course it is Satan who is behind the Beast and the Image Beast. It is him the counterfeit king of the north who is actuating and speaking through both of them.

sky

[Kevin H]

So Ellen White said two things about Revelation chapter 13 second part.

One, she said that it referred to the United States.

Two, she said that it referred to Satan.

Was Ellen White confused?

First I like the way Lysimachus, Sky, Gibs and I dissagree. I think that all 4 of us have something to say and aspects of the truth, as well as much to learn and unlearn and these discussions and trying to understand each other and be fair to each other even when we dissagree, this is how we will grow. How I wish that you could join in discussions this way Miz3. I pray for you, not to "see the ligh" (i.e. end us agreeing with us) but to respect even if we dissagree and not twist what we say into an insult.

Second, the young Mrs. White saw the beast as the United States. As she got older, had more visions, did more study in the Bible she expanded it to the influence that Apostate Protestantism will have on having our goverment and the rest of the world in going along with the world system and Sky pointed out Satan will use his powers to give the movement credibiity.

[skyblue888]

I have never read anywhere sister White stating that the US is the Beast but I have read her stating that the US is the image of the Beast. That the first Beast of Rev.13 is the papal power and the second beast in that chapter is the Image Beast, the US, when Apostate Protestantism shall influence the state to enforce sunday worship. In A Word To The Little Flock, p.19 she even says that the number 666 is the number of the Image Beast.

# 6 in the Old Testament had something to do with slavery. To receive that number 666 simply means that in spite of all the accumulated light that will shine upon the people in these last days, if they still choose to remain slaves to the power of sin, they will receive that number signifying that they are three times more guilty than the people who perished in the waters of the flood.

sky

[Gibs]

Sky, I think SDA's have always applied the # 666 to the first beast of the chapter and that of course is the image beast in that it too has seven heads and 10 horns but is clearly not the great Red Dragon Beast that Satan is. This first beast of Rev is pictured as like a leopard.

The real trouble here though is the # 666 belongs to the Beast of Rev 13:11 and it is foolish to try to make it belong to the first beast of the chapter.

It is plain and simple, the text will not allow it,

Re 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Re 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Re 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

No one can change the text except for God and He Changeth not His Word for sure.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

Never the less is this increasing light or not ye all. If it is not is this quote a lie by EGW? No she just saw increaseing light.

"In Revelation we read concerning Satan: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:13-17). . . . {3SM 393.1}

And folks it really can be no other way, the USA isn't the player for sure, it is to clear! Don't become excited, just receive as it reads without preconceived ideas and afraid of going agaist EGW as you see above you are not!

There is no sense in hanging up a dry shirt on the line to dry!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

We choose not to handle this statement carelessly. Ellen White never once rescinded her previous positions on the Lamb-Like Beast being the United States of America. In a nutshell, you are disqualifying the United States of America to play any prominent role in Bible prophecy. In other words, there is no symbolic power or beast in the Bible that represents the United States.

Wouldn't you think God was missing a beat here if this is so?

The most powerful nation on earth?

Satan is going to most likely manifest himself through the United States, in wonder-working ways. Although we're not exactly sure how just yet. We have to wait and see.

One interpretation does not necessarily cancel out the other. It just provides more in-depth analysis as to how it is to be harmonized.

Like I showed you, in 1910 she identified the Land Beast with Two-Horns like a Lamb as the United States of America in Signs of the Times. This proves she did not retract or ever reconsider what she had previously written in The Great Controversy.

[Dr. Rich]

What is interesting here is that the first beast must be either a ruler or a group of rulers of the nations of this world, right? So, accourding to Paul's words in Romans 13, we have God to blame for setting up this beast. Truth is, Satan is in control of the Beast and of all of the rullers of the earth. Therefore we have a problem 'Huston'.

[Lysimachus]

What is interesting here is that the first beast must be either a ruler or a group of rulers of the nations of this world, right? So, accourding to Paul's words in Romans 13, we have God to blame for setting up this beast. Truth is, Satan is in control of the Beast and of all of the rullers of the earth. Therefore we have a problem 'Huston'.

God is ultimately in charge, but Satan carries out the evil actions of setting up the rulers, although it is God that allows Satan and gives him the ultimatum. The story of Job is a perfect example. Satan asked God if He would put His hand on him, and then Job would curse God. But God answered back to Satan and said that He was giving him power to hurt Job, but just as long as he did not kill Job. So who was it inflicting Job? God or Satan? Both in a sense, but Satan is the reason it was happening. God simply allowed Satan to carry forward his work to "fulfill the will of God", and prove Satan a point or two.

[Gibs]

Lysimachus,

I think you should look at the scripture with scruitiny and I think if you are not biased you can see which statement is correct, the one I posted by EGW or the one you say you saw she made in 1910. It should hit you like a rock, I can't see how any can argue the thing.

That is Satan allowed out of the bottomless pit to personate Jesus Christ, from where he was cast.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.