Does the Bible Condemn Homosexual Practices?

[olger]

What you seem to be saying is that God is OK with sex between males or between famales as long as it's not about power, pagan ritual and sterility. So apparently what you're saying is that if I simply want to be with a man because I like his body, or have a sexual desire for him, that's fine with God.

This is precisely what he is saying.

G

[Daryl]

What do you think about this video?

[olger]

troubling for many reasons.

[Raphael]

Nice collection of verses at the opening post, John317.

I myself, was asking the same question on what the Bible says on homosexuality.

Perhaps this should be printed out nice & bold on T-shirts, calendars or mugs to revive public conviction.

Christians have been playing too nice for too long without PR initiative on the matter.

[olger]

I would like to have a mug like that for Silk milk (and possibly ginger snaps).

[Kevin H]

I saw this discussion on Facebook. I think I removed all the last names (except for initial) but I hope you find this useful:

John M: Doing what I hope is the final edit on SODOM AND THE SODOMITES, an exegetical study of the various and alleged "gay" texts in Scripture. We have to be careful in interpreting the Word of God, lest we turn it into the Word of Satan, and earn the wrong response on judgment day.

19 hours ago • Unlike • 2.

Oscar A: Now thats the man I knw ! Different times different outcomes ! Its all about Homophobic and Chovanistic men in Biblical times. Has anything changed ? GOD IS LOVE PERIOD !

17 hours ago • Like.

John M: It's more complicated than that. EXEGESIS. You'll want to read the book if you're interested in what those texts really say.

16 hours ago • Unlike • 2.

David A G: John, Although I will say I am not "for" gay marriage. I will also add that we should show all fellow human beings love and kindness whatever our stance on issues. The bottom line is we need to police our own actions and go by what our own hearts tell us is right. What book is this you speak of? Is it about a whole new way to "interpret" the scriptures? God is Love period!! I agree Oscar, so if I am wrong on this issue or the other opinion is wrong, God can read our hearts and make the decisions we are not capable of as mere mortals! "Judge not,lest you be judged" This goes for EVERYBODY. Does God approve of Homosexuality? We will all know someday, until then it's up to each individual to figure it out. Coexistance goes every direction too right? Human nature dictates differences in opinions.That is the beauty of freewill... Right??

13 hours ago • Like.

Sharon D: While we're on this subject, let me just say that the government being involved in marriage makes a travesty of the separation of church and state. Civil unions for all. Marriage for those upon whom the church wishes to bestow that sacrament.

12 hours ago via mobile • Like • 1.

Becky W: ‎John Ml, I would love the Bible study on those verses! My sister-in-law is married to a woman and they are the BEST people I know.

11 hours ago • Like.

Bennie F: No David G. it is not another book on how to interpret Scripture it is a study on what the original author’s were actually saying to their intended audiences. Without an understanding, as best we can, of ancient Near Eastern thought, semantics, textual criticism and other similar disciplines we can come to the wrong conclusion as to what God actually inspired men to write. The Bible was written to an ancient audience whose culture and language was so very different from ours today that simple things easily understand by the intended audience can leave us scratching our head as to meaning. Or down right wrong as is usually the case. As God makes more and more information available to us we can now get closer and closer to what was actually meant and not what we think the Bible meant. I have been waiting to read this study for I have lots of unanswered question on this subject. I depend on experts like John to gain understanding for I am not an exegesis specialist.

9 hours ago • Unlike • 2.

Stuart D: Reason number one not to have gay marriage God said not to do it. What more can we say?

5 hours ago • Like.

John M:l STUART! Did you or did you not read what Bennie wrote just above? I guarantee, Stuart, that you do NOT know what the so-called "gay" texts refer to, because you are not equipped to do exegesis, and have never read or studied an exegetical study of these verses. Before you interpret according to what you've heard, let me remind you how often Jesus Christ our Lord had to say, '"YOU HAVE HEARD IT SAID.... BUT I TELL YOU" and had to CORRECT the misinterpretations and misconceptions that were so POPULAR in his day. This kind of thing is how people who claim to be Christians weill be told by Christ, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you" even though they THINK they did great work for Christ. Tread very carefully here.

5 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: Yes, David, Bennie is correct. Until y ou know the extensive background behind the rituals being practiced in Sodom, one of the four chief Canaanite cities (and notice I said RITUALS) and its counterpart in Judges 19, you cannot make sense of the word "toevah" or what the one law in The Law of Moses (repeated twice, but it is the same law among hundreds of laws) refers to. Further, since there was no word for "homosexual" in the time of Christ, you have to know the words Paul chose and what they meant (three words translated variously "homosexuals/sodomites/porographers/sexual sinners" and many other ways in modern English Bibles! really mean, and to what in particular Paul refers to. And exactly what a midrash is, and what methods Paul was following in Romans 1, and why those words get misinterpreted.

5 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: Bottom line: if you don't know the whole background, you cannot safely interpret these passages, despite how popular an idea may be. Despite what the Bible says about death, it is almost universal that the sects teach erroneously that the dead float off to heaven to sit on a cloud and strum a harp or sink like a stone into a fiery hell there to burn forever. A typical example of a popular, almost universal, and very dangerous concept not taught in the Bible (or Luke 16 either) and how it colors misconceptions about God. 5 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: ‎@ Sharon: yes. Right now the world-state is developing rapidly, the globalists in almost complete control of the govt. Such things as regulating marriage, a sacrament and religious pracrtice, by the state, paved the way long ago for this to happen. And no, David, I did not say I was "for" or "against" gay marriage, just that the usual arguments, ESPECIALLY Scriptural ones, are invalid. THE TERM EXEGESIS means you know in great detail the original languages, their parallel languages, the culture, history, theology, extra-biblical documents, the archaeological evidence, the politics, the religious practices, the textual history of a passage, and much more, before you begin to "GET OUT OF" a passage what it meant TO THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR AND ORIGINAL INTENDED AUDIENCE, without reading into it things it never was meant to say, as happens so often in modern interpretation, especially since in the modern world we have such a poorly-trained and Biblically illiterate group of pastors. No matter the laity act as they do. 5 hours ago • Like.

John M: ‎@ Becky. It's not a "bible study" which sounds so simple and easy. It is a book, a complicated series of chapters that does SERIOUS EXEGESIS, in order to understand what the Bible is really saying on this important issue of our times. A good prep for the book would be the exegetical studies, offered to you before this time. (HINT) 4 hours ago • Like.

John M: Actually, Pam B., Bennie F., and scores of others on my friends list could offer their personal testimony as to how these studies have affected their understanding of Scripture and their spiritual experience. This is another open invite.

4 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

Bennie F: Oh yes the studies have helped me tremendously for as a scientist and believer I was having trouble reconciling what I was taught in science and what I thought I was taught in the bible, on Christian TV and in various Churches I had attended. As it turns out I didn’t understand how to read the bible for all it is worth. We westerners have very little idea of how the ancient Near East people thought and this caused much confusion in understanding the Bible. The first thing the study taught me was to ask the question what did the original author of any particular book, I was reading, mean to say to his intended audience and not simply ask what does this mean to me. Once you understand the author’s message to the intended audience then you ask what does this mean for me today? The bible was written FOR us not TO us. That is a very important concept and one that is often misunderstood by modern day readers of the bible. I was actually taught to read the bible "as if God was speaking to me personally". That was bad advice in most cases. We need to read the bible in light of how it was written, that is, written TO an ancient audience FOR us today. We also need to know when we are reading historical literature, how to recognize biblical symbolism, how to understand apocalyptic poetry and so forth. I found myself praying for guidance in understanding the Bible and the next thing I know I was reading blogs from John M. on a local newspaper forum. That was back in 2007 and although I have a lot to learn many of my questions about the Bible have been answered. I don’t believe anything happens by chance and do not doubt God’s hand in leading me to these studies. After all will God give you a viper when you pray for a fish? Many of my fundamentalist’s friends are constantly warning me off. They are not ready to give up long held beliefs even in the face of overwhelming evidence. But many members of my Church and family have started coming around and seeing things a new. I thank God for answered prayers and also for John who has freely given his time and effort to help laymen, like me, learn how to read the Bible. Remember Truth Matters! 3 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

Ruth B: What book? And I do believe, strongly, that the attempt to understand the Bible as the original audience would have understood it is extremely important. I also believe that despite the limitations of pastors and laity, that a personal relationship, a saving relationship with Jesus Christ is possible and basic. And He did warn against judging and I don't think He meant that only for His immediate audience.

27 minutes ago • Like.

John M: Yes, Ruth. The Bible is a mixture of DIVINE and HUMAN. These opposites are always present. Other opposites in Scripture are SIMPLICITY and COMPLEXITY. Another closely related is SURFACE and DEPTH. Such issues as acceptance of salvation by faith in Jesus lie on the SURFACE of the text, and are on the side of SIMPLICITY. Even these simple issues have aspects that require great DEPTH of the COMPLEXITY of the issues involved. So at once we have both the ease of hearing the message of salvation and the need for sound exegesis to work on the more complex and deeper issues. Exegesis does not imply in the slightest that God's directives and warnings are meant only for the oiriginaly intended audience. Rather, exegesis seeks to make sure we are really clear on what those warnings are.23 minutes ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: Hence the first question in reading any passage is NEVER "What does this mean to me?" That will ALWAYS lack the full perspective and is very SUBJECTIVE. Rather, by doing exegesis, we ask "What did this mean to the author and original intended audience?" Only as we work through all the many disciplines of exegesis (which in fact, is not the work of the lay believer, or even possible without extensive training) can we be sure that we are answering that question correctly. BUT THE WORK DOES NOT END THERE. As Bennie said clearly, we then extract the principles from what we find the author and original intended audience knew it actually meant, and then (and only then) in step 3 we say, "How should we apply these PRINCIPLES to the different situation we are in today? Only then will we have our SUBJECTIVE opinions guided by OBJECTIVE reality.

[Gustave]

Yes, the Bible condemns it...

...Reason also condemns it.

...As does Evolution.

[skyblue888]

Someone stated on another discussion that the Bible says nothing about homosexuality.

Homosexuality practice is any sexual relations between people of the same gender. For example when males have sexual contact or relations with other males-- or when females have sexual contact or relations with other females-- there is homosexuality. The Bible condemns this, and Jesus also taught that when people desire to have homosexual relations, it is a sin.

Here are a few of the primary Bible verses which condemn homosexual practices:

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Romans 1:26-28

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; [27] and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[28] And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

1 Cor. 6:9-11

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Tim. 1:9-10

understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, [10] the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

Genesis 1:27-28

So God created man in his own image,

in the image of God he created him;

male and female he created them.

[28] And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Genesis 2:21-25

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. [22] And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. [23] Then the man said,

"This at last is bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called Woman,

because she was taken out of Man."

[24] Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. [25] And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Exodus 20:14

"You shall not commit adultery.

Genesis 18:20-21

Then the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, [21] I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know."

Genesis 19:1-15

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth [2] and said, "My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the town square." [3] But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

[4] But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. [5] And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." [6] Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, [7] and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. [8] Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." [9] But they said, "Stand back!" And they said, "This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down. [10] But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. [11] And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door.

Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city, bring them out of the place. [13] For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it." [14] So Lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, "Up! Get out of this place, for the Lord is about to destroy the city." But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be jesting.

[15] As morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be swept away in the punishment of the city."

2 Peter 2:4-8

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; [5] if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; [6] if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; [7] and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked [8] (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righ teous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard);

Jude 1:7

just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Rev. 22:14-15

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers [the sexually immoral], and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Well done John.

sky

[jasd]

QR frame:

>>...As does Evolution.<<

My last batch of chicks gave me a half-dozen males. Those, plus the Buff Orpington I already had were too many. I had to dispose of them for all that they crowed! That left me with quite a few hens with no rooster to serve them.

I noticed the feathers on the backs of my hens were being soiled and were thinning -- exactly as if they were being serviced. "What the hey!" sez I.

One of my hens had taken it upon herself to perform what was lacking in my flock. I saw her one day, bum ferociously wagging, mounted upon another hen. A short while later I began to hear her crowing weakly, like a young rooster learning and practicing... Now, she crows quite well, but still weakly -- or I'd have to dispose of her as well. Funny thing,

her comb is enlarging and her breast feathers have changed colors and seem to be taking on a brilliance. Her three sisters have all remained the same, same egg-layers as she, same black as she was, same size combs as she had, etc. Without change.

Nature or nurture? A gene factor that nature had built into her?--mebbe, all species? Hmmm

Okay, per homosexuality: though it is as proffered that Writ condemns it -- the question obtains: by what measurements exactly? Xtians make too much of it, as Writ condemns a great number of other sins that are equally as damning as homosexuality -- when spoken of in salvific terms. For instance,

as one 'presses the flesh' upon entering church -- how many of those whom we press are actually guilty of sins equally commensurate as homosexuality in Gd's eyes? I'd say that if not all, then practically all. So saying,

one is obliged to look upon the 'naturally sinning person' with equally condemning eyes.

One sins with one's thoughts equally as the homosexual does by his practice -- according to Jesus Christ. I suppose He's a jealous Gd when it comes to any of us taking it upon ourselves to do the judging, which is His.

[John317]

Yes, the Bible condemns it...

...Reason also condemns it.

...As does Evolution.

I do believe special revelation condenms homosexual practices, but I don't believe human reason or the Evolutionary theory will necessarily lead to its condemnation. Homosexuality occurs in the natural world, among the animals, and human reason itself is not a reliable guide for knowledge of right and wrong.

[skyblue888]

Amen.

[Kevin H]

John and Gustive:

Any comments on the above discussion that I copied from Facebook? Especially these I've copied below but others in this was discussion were very interesting. By the way John, this argument is tending to arise among those who have used this method to become strong supporters of the Investigative judgment and argues that the critics of the Investigative Judgment are those who are not careful about that the Bible is really saying. Granted this is only a facebook discussion and not the book, I am still quite undecided on the issue (and have to admit being quite disinterested in the actual topic of homosexuality.) my interests is more in the Biblical Studies aspect of this topic especially since this approach is very much related to my understanding and believing in the Investigative Judgment and Mrs. White's inspiration. Of course I'll be waiting until the book comes out and read that, but still curious about your thoughts (beyond a simple "the investigative judgment is not Biblical" type of comment to this evidence)

Kevin

John M: Doing what I hope is the final edit on SODOM AND THE SODOMITES, an exegetical study of the various and alleged "gay" texts in Scripture. We have to be careful in interpreting the Word of God, lest we turn it into the Word of Satan, and earn the wrong response on judgment day.

19 hours ago • Unlike • 2.

Bennie F: No David G. it is not another book on how to interpret Scripture it is a study on what the original author’s were actually saying to their intended audiences. Without an understanding, as best we can, of ancient Near Eastern thought, semantics, textual criticism and other similar disciplines we can come to the wrong conclusion as to what God actually inspired men to write. The Bible was written to an ancient audience whose culture and language was so very different from ours today that simple things easily understand by the intended audience can leave us scratching our head as to meaning. Or down right wrong as is usually the case. As God makes more and more information available to us we can now get closer and closer to what was actually meant and not what we think the Bible meant. I have been waiting to read this study for I have lots of unanswered question on this subject. I depend on experts like John to gain understanding for I am not an exegesis specialist.

9 hours ago • Unlike • 2.

Stuart D: Reason number one not to have gay marriage God said not to do it. What more can we say?

5 hours ago • Like.

John M:l STUART! Did you or did you not read what Bennie wrote just above? I guarantee, Stuart, that you do NOT know what the so-called "gay" texts refer to, because you are not equipped to do exegesis, and have never read or studied an exegetical study of these verses. Before you interpret according to what you've heard, let me remind you how often Jesus Christ our Lord had to say, '"YOU HAVE HEARD IT SAID.... BUT I TELL YOU" and had to CORRECT the misinterpretations and misconceptions that were so POPULAR in his day. This kind of thing is how people who claim to be Christians weill be told by Christ, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you" even though they THINK they did great work for Christ. Tread very carefully here.

5 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: Yes, David, Bennie is correct. Until y ou know the extensive background behind the rituals being practiced in Sodom, one of the four chief Canaanite cities (and notice I said RITUALS) and its counterpart in Judges 19, you cannot make sense of the word "toevah" or what the one law in The Law of Moses (repeated twice, but it is the same law among hundreds of laws) refers to. Further, since there was no word for "homosexual" in the time of Christ, you have to know the words Paul chose and what they meant (three words translated variously "homosexuals/sodomites/porographers/sexual sinners" and many other ways in modern English Bibles! really mean, and to what in particular Paul refers to. And exactly what a midrash is, and what methods Paul was following in Romans 1, and why those words get misinterpreted.

5 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: Bottom line: if you don't know the whole background, you cannot safely interpret these passages, despite how popular an idea may be. Despite what the Bible says about death, it is almost universal that the sects teach erroneously that the dead float off to heaven to sit on a cloud and strum a harp or sink like a stone into a fiery hell there to burn forever. A typical example of a popular, almost universal, and very dangerous concept not taught in the Bible (or Luke 16 either) and how it colors misconceptions about God. 5 hours ago • Unlike • 1.

John M: &#8206;@ Sharon: yes. Right now the world-state is developing rapidly, the globalists in almost complete control of the govt. Such things as regulating marriage, a sacrament and religious pracrtice, by the state, paved the way long ago for this to happen. And no, David, I did not say I was "for" or "against" gay marriage, just that the usual arguments, ESPECIALLY Scriptural ones, are invalid. THE TERM EXEGESIS means you know in great detail the original languages, their parallel languages, the culture, history, theology, extra-biblical documents, the archaeological evidence, the politics, the religious practices, the textual history of a passage, and much more, before you begin to "GET OUT OF" a passage what it meant TO THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR AND ORIGINAL INTENDED AUDIENCE, without reading into it things it never was meant to say, as happens so often in modern interpretation, especially since in the modern world we have such a poorly-trained and Biblically illiterate group of pastors. No matter the laity act as they do. 5 hours ago • Like.

John M: &#8206;@ Becky. It's not a "bible study" which sounds so simple and easy. It is a book, a complicated series of chapters that does SERIOUS EXEGESIS, in order to understand what the Bible is really saying on this important issue of our times. A good prep for the book would be the exegetical studies, offered to you before this time. (HINT) 4 hours ago • Like.

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

Yes, the Bible condemns it...

...Reason also condemns it.

...As does Evolution.

I do believe special revelation condenms homosexual practices, but I don't believe human reason or the Evolutionary theory will necessarily lead to its condemnation.

[John317]

Kevin, after all you've studied in the Bible, do you believe the Bible teaches that homosexual practices are sinful? Or do you believe that well-informed Christians can practice homosexuality in good conscience knowing that God approves of it?

[John317]

Gustave, have you read Andre Gide's book Corydon? Gide, a winner of the Nobel Prize for literature, argues in Corydon that homosexuality is both natural and reasonable (that is, from the perspective of man without God). I agree with him, but I reject his conclusion, because I accept God's self-revelation, whereas Gide finally decided to reject it. If I did not believe the Bible, I would agree with Andre Gide.

[John317]

Okay, per homosexuality: though it is as proffered that Writ condemns it -- the question obtains: by what measurements exactly? Xtians make too much of it, as Writ condemns a great number of other sins that are equally as damning as homosexuality -- when spoken of in salvific terms. For instance,

as one 'presses the flesh' upon entering church -- how many of those whom we press are actually guilty of sins equally commensurate as homosexuality in Gd's eyes? I'd say that if not all, then practically all.

The fact that the Bible condemns many other sins doesn't change the fact that the Bible condemns the practice of homosexuality.

Nobody is saying that it's OK to commit other sins. We're asking if the Bible condemns the practice of homosexuality.

This isn't mere theory.

I'm going to visit a guy I used to be in a sexual, romantic relationship with for years and almost married. Would you (or anyone else on the forum) tell me from a biblical viewpoint that it's OK for me to have sex with him during my visit?

[John317]

Have you taken Evolution theory John317?

I took courses in biology in public high schools and colleges and have continued to study evolutionary theory since taking those classes. During the last few years, for instance, I've read Darwin's Origin of Species as well as his book, The Descent of Man.

[John317]

...Reason also condemns it.

...As does Evolution.

Gustave, you've made the claim that reason and "evolution" condemn homosexuality.

Could you show it?

[skyblue888]

How could "evolution" condemn anything? It does not exist. It is what it is, a mere theory invented by the father of lies.

sky

[phkrause]

How could "evolution" condemn anything? It does not exist. It is what it is, a mere theory invented by the father of lies.

sky

Excellent point sky.

[skyblue888]

:)

[Kevin H]

Kevin, after all you've studied in the Bible, do you believe the Bible teaches that homosexual practices are sinful? Or do you believe that well-informed Christians can practice homosexuality in good conscience knowing that God approves of it?

I have only heard part of the evidence. I use to hold very strongly to the tradition, but I've learned enough to come to the belief that I I might be wrong and need to look at the evidence, and be fair to the Bible even if the Bible does not say what I expect it to say. Apperently the book that is being written is actually a book on letting the Bible and not our presupositions of the Bible control our life and while the author could have spoken about the state of the dead or the investigative judgment, he finally decided to pick a topic that will really cause discussion and study with a double purpose of returning to what the Bible actually teaches on this topice to develop guidelines in how to treat people who are trying to deal with this topic, and second, to simply get away from tradition and get back to the Bible.

Originally Posted By: John317

I'm going to visit a guy I used to be in a sexual, romantic relationship with for years and almost married. Would you (or anyone else on the forum) tell me from a biblical viewpoint that it's OK for me to have sex with him during my visit?

Of course not. Even it the tradition is wrong, you are in a different situation. The issues facing you would be the cheating on your wife and promiscuity and taking sex too superficial. In the Old Testament Sex and the Sabbath are the same doctrine, the only two joys of paradice that we were allowed to take from Eden, one where we thank God directly for the whole word that he made and in a way that is in a direct relationship with God, and one where we thank God indirectily by having that deep special relationship and enjoyment with that one special person, the two people becoming one, and that from this relationship we build a bridge from self to world and that we can love God and the rest of God's world better because of this one special relationship.

This casual relationship with another person, especially for someone who is in your position, would be against what the purpose of marrage is even if the friend that you visit is another woman.

[skyblue888]

Kevin, even by taking a casual look at the passages of Scriptures that John put together on this thread in regard to homosexuality, one can see that there is no room for private interpretation. The passages are crystal clear.

sky

[Kevin H]

Sky, yes I used to believe that too, but then learned enough to at least wonder whether or not I'm right, so again I am going to wait until I see more of the evidence.

[skyblue888]

What more evidence could we ask for? The Lord Himself says that it is an abomination to Him.

sky