Does the Bible Condemn Homosexual Practices?

[Gordon1]

I always thought that if what we believe is true that we should not be afraid to really study it in scripture. From some of the responses here I guess that it is a mistake to really want to study the Bible. We have what we believe the Bible teaches so let's stop there cause who knows what would happen if we really look close at that book.

Hi Kevin, your concern is valid - the Bible should be studied for new light. Perhaps you have done this and found contradictions.

But many (most?) of your posts seem to be quoting all manner of theologians and historians, as well as your seminary professors, as authority for your beliefs.

So to accuse others of relying on tradition is your own black eye. Did you discover new light on homosexuality from Bible study or from an outside source?

If you had believed the Bible, you could have saved the seminary fees and launched directly into evangelism. It's happened before.

So it's not "a mistake to really want to study the Bible." But those other books are a snare.

They will have us believe that evil is good and good evil.

[Gordon1]

once again can you give time for the people writing the book to finish it and publish it then we can both look at what they are saying the Bible teaches and see if this is indeed new evidence or not. And please don't corner me into making a stand until I get a chance to really look at the evidence.

Kevin, we have our Bibles. We can study the Bible as well as any man, unless we are handicapped. We need not wait for 'their book', or all the future books that could be written. This was never God's purpose. He gave us HIS book for our present salvation. This is our gold standard to discern good from evil.

The Bible was written for the common man. Break free from these other scribes who entertain doubt.

[caliman]

After everything is said, heterosexuals will go home and enjoy sex with their partners, wives/husbands. Gays, born in the same way as heterosexuals and from heterosexual parents, with feelings and a need to relate to other human beings for companionship, having a sex drive just as everyone else, happen to be attracted to a same sex person. Can we fairly ignore these facts and ask every gay person to live a life of reclusion without ever enjoying that which only God can give to humans? Can everyone writing here justly ask something of another person that he or she could never deal with if that was their predicament? Let's be fair! No one that I know became gay or asked to be born with this difference. This is a phisical fact only, and in reality we are all made the same phisically. Once we are transformed to live with God, remember, in heaven there will be no marrying or given into marriage, therefore sex activity will cease. Let's fulfill the law by doing just what it asks from us, and that is: Love God with all thy heart and your neighbor as thyself. In doing such we fulfill the whole law.

[Kevin H]

Kevin, we have our Bibles. We can study the Bible as well as any man, unless we are handicapped. We need not wait for 'their book', or all the future books that could be written. This was never God's purpose. He gave us HIS book for our present salvation. This is our gold standard to discern good from evil.

The Bible was written for the common man. Break free from these other scribes who entertain doubt.

Precisely Gordon, and the ultamat theam of this book is that we need to get back to the Bible, to study it seriously and to follow what it actually teaches, but that we have become too blided by traditions and what we expect the Bible to teach and there are the ancient languages that we need to be fair to and realize that sometimes we can have better understandings of the translations, and the book is a call back to honest Bible study rather than having traditions blind us to what the Bible writers were trying to tell us.

There are many people, good Christians, who love God and spend hours reading their Bible, but they think that Luke 16:19-31, Luke 23:43, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 teach that when people die that they go right to heaven or hell. If I was to follow your policy here we should not teach them what those verses really say but encourage them to remain in ignorance with their misinterpetations, and accuse them of giving up their Bible if they dare look at information that indicates that maybe these verses are NOT teaching that we either go to heaven or hell at death.

So what are we going to submit to? To honestly study the Bible and let the chips fall where they will, or for our current understanding to be the final authority and to not want us to learn anything that questions whether or not we are truely being fair to the message of scripture.

[Gordon1]

Precisely Gordon, and the ultimate theme of this book is that we need to get back to the Bible

That's good advice for all Kevin.

If SDAs neeed another book to tell them to study and follow the Bible, they should confess, repent, and study the Bible.

Or does one wait for yet another opinion to ensure this is sound advice?

[Kevin H]

Gordon1: Are you naturally able to look at the original text and suddenly know the ancient languages, or are you depending on other books that may have been written centuries ago that taught people like Tyndale and others about the language so that they are able to translate the Bible for you? Do you need to confess and repent about translators and their books to give you the Bible in your language?

Does God put the translators in a trance, or do they study ancient texts to learn more about how the ancient words were used so they can have a better understanding of how they used? Are they to repent that they have found more ancient writings to study the words on a deeper level and should have just copied the original language of the Bible for you to naturally be able to read?

Do you want to read Luke 16:19-31, Luke 23:43, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 and think that in these passages the Bible is teaching that when people die that they go right to heaven or hell, or would you want histories to tell you about how the coma got into Luke 23:43 and histories that tell us the context of the other books so that we know what these chapters mean? Are we to repent that there is information out there in other books that explain these texts?

There is a lot of theological speculation out there, people who study what the reformer's believed or different interpetations throught out history. Our typical theologian is based on a history of religion for how different people like Augustine or Calvin understood the text.

What this book is talking about is proper respect for the language of the Bible, the work of the translator, and the historical context of the Bible. Acts 8:30 And Philip ran rhither to hime and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and he said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And the man said "Of course, I can read the Bible as well as any other man and I do not need you nor anyone else to tell me what I'm reading, and you should repent if you think that you have anything that can make this text become clearer, and if you think you have anything to say that would make what I'm reading any clearer than you need to confess and stop preaching it."

[Gordon1]

Hi Kevin,

You seem quite trusting of the works of other men for your Bible understanding, even dependent.

Possibly to the point of calling homosexuality & sodomy "holy, just and good".

God has an order for His creation. His order will not be negated by a novel interpretation on a few texts. We are free to choose, but may lose ability to discern good from evil unless we are vigilant and circumspect. All manner of confusion is entering to steal souls.

Is the book you await the product of reform-minded Sabbathkeepers, upholding the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus? Or does it issue from minds which are ecumenical in nature, permissive of homosexuality in their own ranks, such as the Roman Catholic Church?

Yes we should understand the Hebrew and Greek usage, but through concordances, not through lexicons (dictionaries furnishing interpretation). This gives some independence and objectivity from the translator bias.

I've not been called to follow "church fathers", but maybe you have. Scripture should be our rule, written for the common man.

[Kevin H]

It is from reform-minded investigative judgment believing Ellen White folowing Sabbathkeepers upholding the commandaments of God and the faith of Jesus, who sees the evangelical movement as watering down the Bible to a sticky sweet jesusie religion that is preparing people to accept Satan when he appears as Jesus, which is why I find it intregueing.

Now, once again, are you able to read the original languages and know the perfect translation of them, or are you dependent upon those who have studied the languages to come up with a translation that you can use?

This is NOT studying church history to see what Augustine and Luther and Ford and F.F. Bruce, etc. interepreted the scriptures. This is a study of the actual words and the world of the scriptures. A study of the historical and linguistic contexts.

[Gordon1]

Kevin, your track record has been to quote all manner of sources.

Such study would place me on uncertain ground for any objective inquiry of Truth.

Maybe you have been somehow sheltered.

[Kevin H]

The way I understand it is that we can either read the Bible and mix it with our imagination and let our imagination interpet the scripture, or the worlds of the Bible with word studies and historical, cultural and geographic contexts.

[JonathanPenner]

I have many friends who live a gay lifestyle. Each have a story and few are the same. But one thing seems to be consistent. There stories often include some kind of painful element that was inflicted on them, often times by church going people. We have all been effected by the cancer of "sin". It is contagious and none of us can completely avoid it. While the grace of God provides a plan that is better than chemotherapy, none of us will experience the complete and absolute eradication of the cancer of sin in our bodies until the second coming. However that does not mean we walk around seeking out how much cancer we can get away with until Jesus returns. Why would we want to keep on ingesting cancer causing ways of living, when God wants to begin the healing process here and now. It's like the song by Switchfoot "why would I wait to die, to come alive." Jesus Kingdom begins in our lives the day we accept His lordship. But that doesn't mean we are cancer free. Nor does it mean we can always right everything this side of heaven.

I have recently grappled with a friendship we've developed with a gay couple who have adopted a baby. They both saved themselves for marriage (gay) and are now raising this child. What happens when they come to see the beauty of Christ? Do we split the family? We use to do that with polygamists, but no longer do because of the greater damage caused.

My understanding of the Bible is that a homosexual lifestyle is not God's plan. Even an evolutionist would admit that if the normal sexual relationships were gay our race would cease to exist. However in our sin filled world there is much that is not God's plan, yet as the Bible showcases so often, God works with us regardless.