Racism? I doubt it.

[Woody]

Quote:

Treyvon was not wrong for running away when being chased at night in the rain.

There is no evidence that he ran. Again - media hype is passed on for truth. I prefer to stick with facts.

[fccool]

Quote:

There is no evidence that he ran. Again - media hype is passed on for truth. I prefer to stick with facts.

No evidence that who ran?

[Woody]

look at the quote

[fccool]

Can't embed, just click on the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL72w4xiTVU&t=2m3s

Are you going to tell me that this is not true too, and it's just an opinion :)

[phkrause]

Trained eyes can tell a drug user when they see one. And Martin was a drug user and had just been busted. Good observation skills in my book.

What trained eyes?? Zimmerman had schooling to see if someone is a drug addict? Did he get that close to Martin that he could see his eyes or smell his breath??? As you and I and others will recall, it was evening, I believe, and raining? Correct? If you were out walking and it was raining would you pull up you hood on your sweat jacket?? Maybe you don't or have never worn a sweat jacket with a hood? I have and how he could tell this other person was black and on drugs is streching the truth, I believe. That's why this needed to go to trial. Most of the evidence is based on Zimmerman's own testimoney. Now that doesn't mean its not correct! But as I've said all along, there are questions that have not been answered to my satisfaction. And I would hope and pray to others as well. If he's found innocent! Fine, but if not, than he needs to pay the price of his actions, plain and simple!

[fccool]

I think there are a lot of blanks missing in this case to have a conclusive decision. But, we have a Florida prosecutor who believes that she can prove not merely a manslaughter in this case, but a 2nd degree murder (pre-meditated). Now, prosecutors don't generally throw these charges around, unless they can prove them... so she probably knows something we don't.

[Woody]

Quote:

If he's found innocent! Fine

You had better pray he is found guilty. For if he is found innocent then things will NOT be fine. There will be race riots all over this nation.

This is the issue.

[olger]

I believe he will be acquitted,

G

[Woody]

Quote:

pre-meditated

Oh yeah. The perfect crime - Shoot that black boy. But first of all call 911 and tell them what you are doing.

[Woody]

I believe he will acquitted,

G

Right on Brother G

[Liz]

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

Premeditated murder is a First degree murder charge.

[Woody]

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

Premeditated murder is a First degree murder charge.

Thank you Liz for this clarification. And the prosecutor ruled out First Degree Murder when she refused to let it go to jury.

So, obviously she had evidence that it was not 1st degree murder.

[fccool]

Quote:

Oh yeah. The perfect crime - Shoot that black boy. But first of all call 911 and tell them what you are doing.

I think I have to clarify that. I don't think that he "planned" to kill the guy, but his attitude shows that he was disposed towards a violent confrontation.

For example "those bastards always get away", and "f-ing punks" does paint a certain picture of profiling someone based on certain "look". So, the guy basically profiled him wrongfully, even though the kid has done absolutely nothing wrong.

The rest is really up to which testimony the jury or the judge will see as better fitting the scenario, assuming that this case will go to trial.

If you go with witnesses, several forensic experts who did some analysis and deduced that the cries in the back are not Zimmerman's but most likely Martin's, and then his friend from Miami who had her last conversation with him prior to altercation, Zimmerman's testimony does not match those well.

If those are correct, then it would demonstrate that Zimmerman did have wrongful assumption of profiling Martin as a criminal, and that he then proceeded to wrongfully act based on such assumption, which resulted in violent confrontation, and him shooting the boy after he cried for help.

The problem with this case are all of the blanks which are filled by Zimmerman himself.

[Kountzer]

Quote:

I immediately read the situation for what it was: black guy walking through a middle class neighborhood, where he does not live. It wasn't an enclosed area. I was on a straight street.

Nice story.

Please explain to me what the experience of a white person might be who was walking in a Chicago getto where there were only black people living.

Would the white person be greeted with kindness and welcome?

My goodness - what world do you live in?

I've never been to Chicago.

[Kountzer]

Nice story.

Please explain to me what the experience of a white person might be who was walking in a Chicago getto where there were only black people living.

Would the white person be greeted with kindness and welcome?

My goodness - what world do you live in?

You can be sure if that person was shot and killed there would be a thorough investigation, and somebody would go to jail and later to prison.

[Kountzer]

It's amazing how brave and bold some people become when they are armed with a gun and the other person is not.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't believe any of us know the details of the case. If I was armed with a gun and a guy was on top of me, I may become so overcome with fear (rational or not) that I use my gun. So it is hard for me to judge. From what has been published, it seems manslaughter would be the greatest crime committed here.

[lazarus]

I believe he will be acquitted,

G

I agree.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: olger

I believe he will be acquitted,

G

I agree.

[Woody]

I don't believe any of us know the details of the case. If I was armed with a gun and a guy was on top of me, I may become so overcome with fear (rational or not) that I use my gun. So it is hard for me to judge. From what has been published, it seems manslaughter would be the greatest crime committed here.

[Tom Wetmore]

Moderator Note:

Several political baiting posts have been removed from this discussion. It is hard enough to maintain rational dialog on race relations without injecting partisan political rhetoric into it. Don't even go there. Confine your political commentary to the politics only forums.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[LegalEagle]

I've perused several posts in this thread and wanted to add my thoughts to this discussion:

1) In all of the news stories I watched, I never heard any discussion nor saw any threat of riots. What I saw were quite, peaceful, and responsible marches and protests designed to draw national pressure on the perceived ineffectiveness of the local police and district attorney's office with respect to the Martin/Zimmerman matter.

2) The ineffectiveness of the police/investigators/DA is pretty obvious. A) They never tried to talk to the person who was on the phone with Martin during the incident to see the other side of the story. They took Zimmerman's story as law (along with one eyewitness - in contrast to several others with differing stories) and didn't even check his background. C) Even when presented with some evidence, the DA decided not to arrest Zimmerman which compelled the State and feds to get involved.

3) The NBP Party is a bunch of crazies. Black people do not give them the time of day. Please ridicule them all you want but do not ascribe their buffoonery to Black people at-large.

4) Lastly, in light of the tone of a lot of posters in this thread, it's no wonder Regional conferences still feel the need to maintain their individual presence. This is very sad - and unfortunately not surprising.

[lazarus]

4) Lastly, in light of the tone of a lot of posters in this thread, it's no wonder Regional conferences still feel the need to maintain their individual presence. This is very sad - and unfortunately not surprising.

[phkrause]

I've perused several posts in this thread and wanted to add my thoughts to this discussion:

1) In all of the news stories I watched, I never heard any discussion nor saw any threat of riots. What I saw were quite, peaceful, and responsible marches and protests designed to draw national pressure on the perceived ineffectiveness of the local police and district attorney's office with respect to the Martin/Zimmerman matter.

2) The ineffectiveness of the police/investigators/DA is pretty obvious. A) They never tried to talk to the person who was on the phone with Martin during the incident to see the other side of the story. They took Zimmerman's story as law (along with one eyewitness - in contrast to several others with differing stories) and didn't even check his background. C) Even when presented with some evidence, the DA decided not to arrest Zimmerman which compelled the State and feds to get involved.

3) The NBP Party is a bunch of crazies. Black people do not give them the time of day. Please ridicule them all you want but do not ascribe their buffoonery to Black people at-large.

4) Lastly, in light of the tone of a lot of posters in this thread, it's no wonder Regional conferences still feel the need to maintain their individual presence. This is very sad - and unfortunately not surprising.

excellent post LegalEagle. Been trying to conveye that as best I could, but not half as good as you just did.

[Woody]

Quote:

In all of the news stories I watched

This just highlights a problem: Many like yourself are not well versed in this subject.

Quote:

The ineffectiveness of the police/investigators/DA is pretty obvious.

In all the news stories that I've seen - the system is working and has been followed to the letter of the law. If some are not happy with the law - then there are measures to take to change the law.

Quote:

The NBP Party is a bunch of crazies

Agreed

Quote:

Lastly, in light of the tone of a lot of posters in this thread, it's no wonder Regional conferences still feel the need to maintain their individual presence. This is very sad - and unfortunately not surprising.

It IS unfortunate that one side of this issue has stated and believes that the situation is too large for us to totally solve. They have stated that it is unrealistic to be rid of all racism - so we should ONLY be rid of racism towards blacks and just let the racism towards whites - slide.

With this kind of attitude it would indeed show the need for white conferences to protect the whites from black racism. Sad - but true.

My belief is that we can and should be rid of ALL racism. This is not a popular idea. But I do believe it to be a Biblical approach. And the only approach that will work long term.