I don't think I will be an SDA member

[phkrause]

At this point, I really don't care anymore. I am done with organized religion and doubt that I even continue to go to church much anymore. It just isn't worth it.

I hear you, I don't care for organized religion either. I have found that when you give up getting together with others, you lose that support group. Jesus tells us that where two or three are gather together, there I will be. It doesn't say where one is alone! Even if you are here at C/A, at least you are with others and can have a support group. So in one way you do have others to talk with.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

At this point, I really don't care anymore. I am done with organized religion and doubt that I even continue to go to church much anymore. It just isn't worth it.

I hear you, I don't care for organized religion either. I have found that when you give up getting together with others, you lose that support group. Jesus tells us that where two or three are gather together, there I will be. It doesn't say where one is alone! Even if you are here at C/A, at least you are with others and can have a support group. So in one way you do have others to talk with.

It says "two or more..." But, I do understand what you are saying. I have my cat. Does that count?

[OzarkWoman]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.- Titus 3:5

[phkrause]

I have my cat. Does that count?

[OzarkWoman]

[SivartM]

At this point, I really don't care anymore. I am done with organized religion and doubt that I even continue to go to church much anymore. It just isn't worth it.

Organized religion is overrated. I'm sorry that your pastor has treated you this way; I disagree with him completely, as I don't have a clue why something so arbitrary as "giving up smoking" seems to be the common baseline requirement for baptism. Someone can act nice but be a terrible person inside, but if they don't smoke, then line right up. But if someone has a chemical addiction, they're supposed to pray it away first.

Anyone who thinks that you can "claim a promise" and make an addiction disappear has obviously never been addicted to anything. Smoking is unhealthy, but few people can simply wish it away. It might be good to at least talk to your doctor about your concerns with drugs or nicotine patches, but that's only a suggestion. Nicotine is used to wean yourself off of the dependence acquired from smoking; you decrease the amount used gradually until you aren't dependent anymore. Or you could try something like electronic cigarettes, which I think have nicotine and flavoring but don't have the harmful fumes of real cigarettes. I know it's not the main concern here, but those are all just my suggestions if you wish to take them.

[olger]

People smoke because they are nervous.

Jesus can take away the patterns that make us nervous.

[SivartM]

People smoke because they are nervous.

Jesus can take away the patterns that make us nervous.

People who cannot stop smoking do it because they are chemically dependent on nicotine.

[OzarkWoman]

People smoke because they are nervous.

Jesus can take away the patterns that make us nervous.

Yeah.....

[OzarkWoman]

I won't be around for a bit because I have to reformat this new puter and reinstall everything.

[Woody]

See you later then.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Well good luck, I wonder if that will change his mind? I do know a few pastors that probably would've baptized you by now.

At this point, I really don't care anymore. I am done with organized religion and doubt that I even continue to go to church much anymore. It just isn't worth it.

Do not give up on Jesus. He came here and was a human just like you and me. He has compassion on you. He is your friend and He will help you. He gave up on the organized religion of the Pharisees. Do you let the imperfect humans cause you to loose eternal life.

[M. T. Cross]

People smoke because they are nervous.

Jesus can take away the patterns that make us nervous.

Oh my....

Just wow....

You really do not have a clue do you?

[olger]

People drink to cover pain too.

g

[Guest]

I smoked for about 10-12 years. Come to think of it, it was more like 15. I had tried quitting many times, but never could. One day my boss and I saw a sign in front of an SDA church: "5 day smoking plan". We both wanted to quit so we went, did what they said, and quit smoking. God not only provided the "Know How" of how to quit, but He also provided me with the power to follow through on it, and overcome it.

That was the short version of that story.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

At this point, I really don't care anymore. I am done with organized religion and doubt that I even continue to go to church much anymore. It just isn't worth it.

I hear you, I don't care for organized religion either. I have found that when you give up getting together with others, you lose that support group. Jesus tells us that where two or three are gather together, there I will be. It doesn't say where one is alone! Even if you are here at C/A, at least you are with others and can have a support group. So in one way you do have others to talk with.

This is very true PK. OzarkWoman, hang in there with all of your friends here as we are a motly crew (well, I am anyway) and what Woody said about things being backwards is also a good point. My uncle was an Adventist for over 40 years and he smoked the whole time. He was baptized and had an Adventist funeral. Didn't die of the smoke, but of food allergy, couldn't eat wheat and such. OW, you could always start a Smoker's Sabbath School class.

Many of my friends who stopped simply did as the Nike commercial--just do it.

[monty]

OW during my working years I worked with many people with addictions. Nicotine has been likened to heroin addiction. Several of these people with heroin addiction I worked with either committed suicide or died violent deaths. People generally do not understand the hold nicotine can have chemically on you. We are all chemically different and one person can have an experiance completly different from another. There can be a psycological element that is not understood also, even by yourself as you experiance the addiction. What is the answer? In a very private manner give it to Jesus your Saviour. Keep doing this, even over and over. He will never desert you, He will never let you go, and He will not reject you as you go through this with Him. Unfortunately it is my experiance it would be very rare to find understanding and support on this issue within the SDA church, especially among denominational employees. That said, God is not limited by this. I have been surprised as I saw God's presence in some lives that others saw as individuals who were without hope. God is not limited in this and He desires your salvation much deeper than you or I can comprehend. This transends the issue of whether you are baptised or not. I will be praying for you and for your victory!

[Woody]

God is no more likely to help with Nicotine addiction than He will help with Cancer. Yes - by all means pray if you have cancer and pray if you Nicotine addiction but we have no assurance that we will get an answer that we want compared to any other prayer that we might want answered in a certain way. We just can't dictate to God.

[Naomi]

Good morning OzarkWoman, and Happy Sabbath,

I have been reading your post but have not responded because it seems as though you have been receiving a lot of advice; which appears to run the gambit.

For what it is worth, it sounds like you are putting too much pressure on yourself to become a baptized member. Have you been baptized in any Christian church? If so, you have accepted Christ.

Why not just continue to study and be an active member of your local church and at the right time it will happen. Just imagine how great you will feel, how very happy and proud when you have conquered this very tough addiction and come out of the baptismal pool and have your membership accepted. The angels of Heaven will be celebrating with you. What a glorious day that will be!

To stop smoking is difficult and your body will fight back because if has become used to being poisoned. Your lungs will have to cleanse themselves of all that is built-up, and it will not be comfortable. You may not feel well while expelling the tar. The end result is worth it.

FWIW, You can call either 1-800 or 1-888 QUIT NOW and receive patches or gum free. Plus, they will give you as much support and educated advice and support as you desire.

One thing that I have observed in many is that if they change their environment and stay away from smokers (or whatever they are trying to stop) it becomes much easier.

As for those in church who smoke and drank, that is between them and God. Their health, finances, appearance, etc is their issue, not yours. If we look at anyone but God we will trip up and fall. Believe me, I know!!

You are in my prayers. Prayer + Faith + Action = SUCCESS

I don't mean this to sound like a sermon, I do care about you and your issues. Please don't allow yourself to become discouraged, or put too much pressure on yourself. All in good time. God knows your heart and your desires.

Advice is worth what it cost you, I do hope you can find a bit of something in here that will help.

I wish you much happiness and success

Love, peace & courage

[Tammy]

Instead of being resentful of this Pastor, Ozarkwoman, be thankful that he is trying to hold the standard up.

Quote:

Let none who profess godliness regard with indifference the health of the body, and flatter themselves that intemperance is no sin and will not affect their spirituality. A close sympathy exists between the physical and the moral nature. The standard of virtue is elevated or degraded by the physical habits. Excessive eating of the best of food will produce a morbid condition of the moral feelings. And if the food is not the most healthful, the effects will be still more injurious. Any habit which does not promote healthful action in the human system degrades the higher and nobler faculties. Wrong habits of eating and drinking lead to errors in thought and action. Indulgence of appetite strengthens the animal propensities, giving them the ascendancy over the mental and spiritual powers. {CH 67.2}

"Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul" (1 Peter 2:11), is the language of the apostle Peter. Many regard this warning as applicable only to the licentious; but it has a broader meaning. It guards against every injurious gratification of appetite or passion. It is a most forcible warning against the use of such stimulants and narcotics as tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and morphine. These indulgences may well be classed among the lusts that exert a pernicious influence upon moral character. The earlier these hurtful habits are formed, the more firmly will they hold their victims in slavery to lust, and the more certainly will they lower the standard of spirituality. {CH 67.3}

Bible teaching will make but a feeble impression upon those whose faculties are benumbed by indulgence of appetite. Thousands will sacrifice not only health and life, but their hope of heaven, before they will wage war against their own perverted appetites. One lady, who for many years claimed to be sanctified, made the statement that if she must give up her pipe or heaven she would say, "Farewell, heaven; I cannot overcome my love for my pipe." This idol had been enshrined in the soul, leaving to Jesus a subordinate place. Yet this woman claimed to be wholly the Lord's! {CH 68.1}

Wherever they may be, those who are truly sanctified will elevate the moral standard by preserving correct physical habits, and, like Daniel, presenting to others an example of temperance and self-denial. Every depraved appetite becomes a warring lust. Everything that conflicts with natural law creates a diseased condition of the soul. The indulgence of appetite produces a dyspeptic stomach, a torpid liver, a clouded brain, and thus perverts the temper and the spirit of the man. And these enfeebled powers are offered to God, who refused to accept the victims for sacrifice unless they were without a blemish. It is our duty to bring our appetite and our habits of life into conformity to natural law. If the bodies offered upon Christ's altar were examined with the close scrutiny to which the Jewish sacrifices were subjected, who with our present habits would be accepted? {CH 68.2}

With what care should Christians regulate their habits, that they may preserve the full vigor of every faculty to give to the service of Christ. If we would be sanctified in soul, body, and spirit, we must live in conformity to the divine law. The heart cannot preserve consecration to God while the appetites and passions are indulged at the expense of health and life. . . . {CH 69.1}

Paul's inspired warnings against self-indulgence are sounding along the line down to our time. . . . He presents for our encouragement the freedom enjoyed by the truly sanctified. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1. He charges the Galatians to "walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh." Galatians 5:16, 17. He names some of the forms of fleshly lusts--idolatry, drunkenness, and such like. After mentioning the fruits of the Spirit, among which is temperance, he adds, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." Verse 24. {CH 69.2}

God can and will help us overcome any and all addictions, but we must truly hate the sin, or we will never give it up. From reading your posts, it doesn't sound like you hate smoking yet. When you come to that point in your mind, then you will find victory, with the help of the Lord.

[Gerr]

Let's take a look at the Great Gospel Commission regarding baptism --

Quote:

Matt.28:19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world."

Please notice that what it does not say.

It does not say to go forth and make sure people observe all things and then to baptize. I think perhaps we have things backwards here.

Right now I don't have any strong feeling/conviction whether to baptize a person who continues to smoke or not. But for the sake of discussion, let me argue the point. Should we baptize current heroin addicts? Current pork eaters? Alcoholics? Someone living with a person not his/her spouse? The list goes on.

[Gerr]

God is no more likely to help with Nicotine addiction than He will help with Cancer. Yes - by all means pray if you have cancer and pray if you Nicotine addiction but we have no assurance that we will get an answer that we want compared to any other prayer that we might want answered in a certain way. We just can't dictate to God.

Apples and oranges! What kind of god do you have anyway?

[olger]

I smoked for about 10-12 years. Come to think of it, it was more like 15. I had tried quitting many times, but never could. One day my boss and I saw a sign in front of an SDA church: "5 day smoking plan". We both wanted to quit so we went, did what they said, and quit smoking. God not only provided the "Know How" of how to quit, but He also provided me with the power to follow through on it, and overcome it.

That was the short version of that story.

I like these kind of stories..!

[olger]

Excellent post Naomi !!

[Gerr]