Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 10, 2012 Administrators Posted April 10, 2012 Moderator Note: A significant chunk of this topic has been removed because of a failure to avoid attacking one another. The software removes all responses to a removed post along with it. Many of those were just piling on the personal attacks by responding in kind, so they deserved their fate. But a few also may have had some on-topic parts, which is unfortunate collateral damage... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
SivartM Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 This is not saying that the Holy Spirit did indeed convict this pastor, but IF it is by the leading of the Holy Spirit that he received such conviction, then wouldn't even you agree, SivartM, that the pastor should stick with his conviction? I don't know why he ought to stick with his conviction beyond the point of reasoning. Convictions can be, have been, are, will be wrong. We should be able to reason with others about them and consider that our convictions could simply be our own prejudices. There's a thin line between "standing on one's convictions" (which sounds quite noble) and "being closed-minded" (which still sounds noble to a few people). A pastor, above all people, should be willing to reexamine his or her convictions when a situation like this arises, where "I don't baptize smokers" goes from a personal conviction to an attitude that is negatively affecting someone else. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
cricket Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Baptism, itself, is a faith-based sacrament that may seem unreasonable to an ordinary man; but to a man of personal conviction it may be a life-changing event and the turning point in his walk with Christ. I agree that people should be able to reason to with others about their own personal convictions; I agree that we should be open to the possibility that such convictions could simply be our own prejudices. I am unconvinced, however, that this pastor's stance is unreasonable; I am also unconvinced that his stance is not based on the gentle prodding of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 12:31-32) Are you certain, SivartM, that the Holy Spirit did not work on this pastor's heart in this circumstance? Quote
OzarkWoman Posted April 10, 2012 Author Posted April 10, 2012 My pastor used to smoke, drink and do drugs before he was saved. That is said so that you will know about some of his background. We had our talk today and so far, I am still smoke-free since Sunday evening. The smoking thing is a deeply held conviction that he has always had, but I have also always known up front that he would not baptize me if I was smoking. I have just tried to quit smoking many times since the first of the year. Needless to say, my pastor will baptize me in the end because he is who I feel comforatable with and who I have a deep abiding respect for. Quote
cricket Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Congratulations on being smoke-free since Sunday evening! A full 48 hours yet? That's great, really! I was reading some of your story, OzarkWoman, as you were responding to Naomi in another thread. Have you ever heard of Cheri Peters? If not, I encourage you to check out her website at http://truestep.org/ . She has an amazing story that you might find interesting and encouraging. Her book, Miracle From the Streets, is available at the ABC. Quote
Guest Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 YOU CAN DO IT OZARKWOMAN!!! The third day is the hardest, or was for me. But it's also the hump. After day 3 it starts getting easier from there. Quote
Members phkrause Posted April 10, 2012 Members Posted April 10, 2012 My pastor used to smoke, drink and do drugs before he was saved. That is said so that you will know about some of his background. We had our talk today and so far, I am still smoke-free since Sunday evening. The smoking thing is a deeply held conviction that he has always had, but I have also always known up front that he would not baptize me if I was smoking. I have just tried to quit smoking many times since the first of the year. Needless to say, my pastor will baptize me in the end because he is who I feel comforatable with and who I have a deep abiding respect for. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Tammy Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 My pastor used to smoke, drink and do drugs before he was saved. That is said so that you will know about some of his background. We had our talk today and so far, I am still smoke-free since Sunday evening. The smoking thing is a deeply held conviction that he has always had, but I have also always known up front that he would not baptize me if I was smoking. I have just tried to quit smoking many times since the first of the year. Needless to say, my pastor will baptize me in the end because he is who I feel comforatable with and who I have a deep abiding respect for. That is really good news! Glad to hear it! Keep us posted.... Quote When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69} The Narrow Way Ministires 5464 State Road Kingsville, OH 44048 choose_the_narrow_way@yahoo.com
Stan Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 My pastor used to smoke, drink and do drugs before he was saved. That is said so that you will know about some of his background. We had our talk today and so far, I am still smoke-free since Sunday evening. The smoking thing is a deeply held conviction that he has always had, but I have also always known up front that he would not baptize me if I was smoking. I have just tried to quit smoking many times since the first of the year. Needless to say, my pastor will baptize me in the end because he is who I feel comforatable with and who I have a deep abiding respect for. As someone who has been there, I can say you will never take the 2nd smoke if you do not take the 1st. Each day will get better, and you will get a buzz our of taking control of this. We are all cheering for you! Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
OzarkWoman Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Well, I also told my pastor something last night after the Daniel study class. I told him that I did respect him, even though I might disagree with him about the smoking. He just smiled. Then I told him that he might as well not expect me to do anything as a member of the church. I have to say he looked puzzled. I told him that I was getting baptized, not joining the church to become a member. He told me that everyone has a gift and since this church is a small congregation it would be helpful for me to help out doing something. I told him that I was sorry but that was something that is one of my principles and I would not change my mind. I think it is so sad that any denomination makes people join tyheir church just to be able to get baptized, and the Seventh-day Adventists are no different. I want to get baptized and I do believe in what the SDAs believe, for the most part, but I despise being made to join a church just to get baptized. I will hold my stand with what I explained to him. Quote
Woody Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Why would you be willing to join the church - but then refuse to help? Getting baptized but then making a protest about the means getting there - doesn't seem right to me. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 OW, thirty some years ago, I was a smoker too before I joined the SDA church. I had tried several times to quit but to no avail. I was on my own reading my Bible and other books from the Canadian Bible Society. One day I read in Corinthians that my body was the temple of the Holy Spirit. I was deeply impressed with the thought that by smoking and drinking I was defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit. Thats when I saw a glimmer of hope. I reasoned to myself that if it was not God's will for me to smoke, then I would ask Him to take the urge away from me and He would do it immediately. That's what I did and believe me I never felt the urge of smoking again. After I prayed I took a cigarette out of the package, Players it was, and put it in a glass jar as a reminder of what God would do for me because I knew then that I was done with smoking and drinking. The Lord took the urge away completely. There is hope. He is able to do exceedingly above all that we ask or think. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
OzarkWoman Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Why would you be willing to join the church - but then refuse to help? Getting baptized but then making a protest about the means getting there - doesn't seem right to me. Oh well!! It seems that it is ok for some pastor to stick by his princples but not ok for me to?! Tough is all I can say. I have felt this way from the very beginning and the pastor knows that fact. The fact that any pastor is not willing to baptize someone into Jesus but not the church seems to me that they aren't honestly following the Bible themselves. Quote
Woody Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Originally Posted By: Woody Why would you be willing to join the church - but then refuse to help? Getting baptized but then making a protest about the means getting there - doesn't seem right to me. Oh well!! It seems that it is ok for some pastor to stick by his princples but not ok for me to?! Tough is all I can say. I have felt this way from the very beginning and the pastor knows that fact. The fact that any pastor is not willing to baptize someone into Jesus but not the church seems to me that they aren't honestly following the Bible themselves. Yes. And I can understand that. But why would that stop you from serving in God's church. The church that you desire to join? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
OzarkWoman Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Yes. And I can understand that. But why would that stop you from serving in God's church. The church that you desire to join? I do not desire to join the SDA denomination at all. I don't wish to join any denomination. I do find that I believe in most of the beliefs that the SDA denomination holds for. That does not mean I wish or desire to join it. I have found that I am made to join it just so I can be baptized. That is not my fault. That is the fault of the pastors and of the denomination. I have said over and over again that I abhore organized religion. This just happens to be one of the reasons why, too much of the old Jewish ways...the legalease stuff. BTW, what makes you so sure that the SDA church is God's church? Quote
Woody Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 It just confuses me that you say you don't believe in the things your pastor is pushing. Yet, when told of ways that you could be baptized without the health habit judgments and the denominational connections - that you still choose to connect yourself to these connections that you don't believe in. ANd yet you say that you stand for prinicple. It does not appear to me that the direction you are headed is one that stands for principle. Rather quite the opposite. (Just the observations of this observer.) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
OzarkWoman Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 Whatever!!! I know what I believe and I am sticking by my beliefs and my priciples. BTW, I have never made any statement that I don't believe anything that the pastor teaches.I have said that I don't agree with him about the smoking, but I will quit smoking because it is the right thing to do for my own health also. I don't believe anyone should have to join any specific denomination just to get baptized. Quote
Woody Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 Whatever!!! I know what I believe and I am sticking by my beliefs and my priciples. By joining an organization that you don't believe in and refuse to support? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
OzarkWoman Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman Whatever!!! I know what I believe and I am sticking by my beliefs and my priciples. By joining an organization that you don't believe in and refuse to support? There ya go with making huge assumptions. Just because I don't agree about the smoking deal and just because I don't believe any person should be made to join any denomination just to be baptized does not in any way mean that I don't believe in much of what the SDA stands for. So many people have trouble with people who do not agree or like organized religion. Quote
Woody Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 If you believe in it - why won't you support it? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
OzarkWoman Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 If you believe in it - why won't you support it? I will say this real sllooww.....I don't believe in organized religion and I don't apprecuiate being "blackmailed" just so that I can get baptized. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted April 12, 2012 Administrators Posted April 12, 2012 Hi, OzarkWoman! Praise God for each day of victory Remember there is nothing sweeter than the life that Christ gives! When the Bible says the "peace that passes understanding" it's so true One thing I can thank Tammy for in this long thread is her willingness to look at Jesus and Scripture. There is a blessing there for everyone! Jesus told us that we are not to live by bread alone (bread being our staple food) but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. It's a promise of blessing, guaranteed! Again, when the noise gets too much, spend time with Jesus. Read your Bible. You will be encouraged and strengthened. Over time things will sort out one way or the other and a month or year from now might not be an issue at all. But it's a heart thing between you and God. God's word will speak to you, and when it does, you will know what to do. Smoking is one thing you may be asked to give up for Him. When Jesus was on earth, He asked his disciples to give up EVERYTHING. But they did- they dropped all for Him. What was it about Jesus that affected them this way? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Liz Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 OzarkWoman, I'm a little late in this conversation, but I've got a suggestion. Why not find a Christian that has been baptized and that you respect and get them to baptize you in a river or lake when it warms up enough to do so? Then you won't be a part of any organized religion and yet you will still have made the decision to follow Christ. You would truly be like those in the very early church. Invite those that you want to attend and have a picnic afterwards. As a side note I really wanted to have my kids baptized in a river, that happens to be in a very scenic canyon, by my dad who happens to be an elder. Somehow that didn't work out, and later we went swimming at a lake and there was a church group baptizing several members, then they sang songs and had a really nice service. It made me wish I had stuck to my guns and did it the way I had wanted to in the first place. Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes.
Woody Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 I had already suggested this to her Liz. I even volunteered to do the baptizing. But she is sticking to her guns to have her pastor baptize her into an organization that she does not believe in and will not support. Got me scratching my head. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
OzarkWoman Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 I had already suggested this to her Liz. I even volunteered to do the baptizing. But she is sticking to her guns to have her pastor baptize her into an organization that she does not believe in and will not support. Got me scratching my head. What has me scratching my head is why you continue to post saying things I have not said. But hey, must be the way of some who think too highly of the denomination over the Bible. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.