I don't think I will be an SDA member

[OzarkWoman]

I seriously doubt that. As a rule, heroin addicts, and people who are still eating pork, and still drinking, don't line up to be baptized. And it would make no sense to baptize unconverted people into the church. You would only be doing them a disservice by doing that, and a disservice to the church also.

They are still welcome to come to church though. Baptism says publicly that I have given up my old lifestyle and embraced a new one by the grace of God. What message would it send to go ahead and baptize me anyway, knowing that I have not done that?

And my statement that I am making by being baptized, would be nothing but a lie. What a way to start off a new Christian. That would be wrong all the way around, for both the church and the person.

And it has NOTHING to do with the individual preacher. This is the policy of the church, worldwide, and it is Biblical.

Those who would get mad at the preacher, or the church, for not going ahead and baptizing them anyway, are basically saying that the church should change, and start embracing sin, instead of the new convert changing, and embracing the doctrines of the church.

And don't forget that God knows the thoughts and the heart. If you go ahead and get yourself baptized knowing that you don't meet the requirements for baptism, who have you fooled?

Well, I know for a fact that pork eaters are baptized into this church.

[OzarkWoman]

Quote:

I will give you the heroin most likely, but I have been in the homes of baptized members and been served pork and had a beer or glass of wine with them. People often join a church because they believe the over all concept but not always all the fine details.

If you have been to SDA homes that are still doing those things, then I would suggest to you that they are not really SDAs at all.

Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. Not by what they profess.

You mean the fruits that they are willing to show in public?

[phkrause]

You mean the fruits that they are willing to show in public?

The sad thing is they actually think that they can hide this from God!!!!!

[Woody]

Scripture does not indicate that only specific individuals are to baptize OzarkWoman. In fact the Great Gospel Commission tell us ALL to go and baptize.

If you ever are in my neck of the woods - I would baptize you. No problem. But I am sure you ought to be able to find some non-denominational church pastor to baptize you.

As I have indicated - even the disciples were hard hearted and full of unbelief when our Lord told them to go and baptize. So, the person who does the baptizing hardly need be a Saint.

[Guest]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19,20

The teaching comes first, then the baptism.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

You mean the fruits that they are willing to show in public?

The sad thing is they actually think that they can hide this from God!!!!!

Exactly! At least I am not wanting to be a hypocrite.

[OzarkWoman]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19,20

The teaching comes first, then the baptism.

Did he command that we should not smoke?

[Woody]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19,20

The teaching comes first, then the baptism.

That would be correct. And when does the observing come in this sequence?

[Guest]

Did he command that we should not smoke?

Have you not already studied this out? Why do you want to quit in the first place, if you don't think God wants you to?

[Gustave]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19,20

The teaching comes first, then the baptism.

And what follows is that teaching in the context of Apostolic Practice.

Acts 10,44

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles ALSO was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,Can any man forbid water, that THESE should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded THEM to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Them = multiple "Gentiles" who do NOT keep Kosher....

...Not that THAT matters much given Jews drink wine.

...Point being Italian Military Officers and Soldiers ate things forbidden by Jewish Law.

The Scriptures are NOT preaching what you are RLH...

...You are preaching something different.

[SivartM]

You may believe that smoking cigarettes is a temperate thing to do. But I do not. The Bible clearly embraces a health message for the people of God.

HA. Sorry, but I've never met anyone who is qualified, then. Have you ever been to an Adventist potluck?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: RLH

You may believe that smoking cigarettes is a temperate thing to do. But I do not. The Bible clearly embraces a health message for the people of God.

HA. Sorry, but I've never met anyone who is qualified, then. Have you ever been to an Adventist potluck?

AMEN to that one SivartM

[Gail]

Hi, OzarkWoman! I'm coming into this discussion rather late, but I would just like to encourage you to cherish your quiet times with your Bible and with the Lord in prayer. You have 3 big things on your plate to deal with (loss, smoking, making a decision for God). They are all BIG. Sometimes we don't know what where to put our foot for the next step!

There is a verse in Song of Solomon that is meant either for earthly lovers or as a picture of how Jesus loves you:

Quote:

His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me. Song of Solomon 8:3

Jesus has promised the Comforter to come in His name, His Holy Spirit, to give you hugs when it's all too much. When you spend time in your Bible, even thinking just on one verse that speaks to you, you will grow closer to He who wants to heal all your hurts. He is where the strength is, and the peace for whatever He impresses you to work on next. Sometimes it does come all at once, and sometimes issues take time to work through. But Jesus has all that you need

Step by step!

Thanks so much for sharing with us! We are on your side and for you all the way!

[Lysimachus]

Scriptures do not always give specifics, but it does give principles. One of those principles is that we are to live up to what we know. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).

When we know that giving up smoking is good for us, and we don't do it, to us it becomes sin. This goes along with Daniel 12:4 where it says that knowledge shall be increased in the last days. Then in Hosea 4:6, it says that God's people are rejected for lack of knowledge, and because they have rejected knowledge, He will reject them.

So we must go by the "principle". The principle is thus: If science and knowledge reveals that something is not good for you, then according to Scripture, we must live up and do good according to that knowledge received. But, if we willfully go against that increased knowledge, then to us it becomes sin.

It is also in perfect alignment with the principle of treating our bodies as the Temples of the Holy Ghost in 1 Cor. 6:19.

Nowhere do scriptures say, "thou shalt not take cyanide". Nowhere does it say "thou shalt not shoot yourself with a gun". But it does say "thou shalt not kill".

When we put any substance into our mouth, or do anything to harm our bodies in light of scientific or medical knowledge, we are willfully violating the commandment that says "thou shalt not kill". We are also willfully violating the principle of going according to knowledge and doing the "good" that we "know".

There is only one supreme solution to this problem:

The combining power of Christ with our own will power.

Our neighbor was a heavy chain smoker for 50 years. One day somebody made a bet that he could not give it up, and told them they would only do something for him if he did it. Our neighbor one day got so mad, that he threw down his pack of cigarettes , stomped on them, and since that day he has not smoked even once.

Guess how long it has been since he has not touched a pack of cigarettes?

About 15 years.

And he didn't do it for Christ either. He just did it from his own free will.

Imagine just how much more power someone could have if they combined their will with the power of Christ!

So if our neighbor Kenny could do it with NO Divine intervention, and just his will alone, how much MORE is it possible to quit with Divine Aid!!!!

And oh, we could smell it for years!! Now we have not smelled it even once in the last 15 years or so.

[Tammy]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19,20

The teaching comes first, then the baptism.

...

Did he command that we should not smoke?

[Gordon1]

Marcos,it's very possible, even most likely that Divine Aid intervened.

God daily works millions of miracles, sending rain & sun on both just & unjust. By this measure the goodness of God leads us to repentance.(Romans 2:4)

Of course, he realized he was prisoner and disgusted by his chains. His will cooperated with God's natural order to be drug-free.

This would not excuse or commend the party who 'proffered the bet' - yet another violation - as the end cannot justify the means. But God can overrule the affairs of men.

[Gail]

Marcos,it's very possible, even most likely that Divine Aid intervened.

God daily works millions of miracles, sending rain & sun on both just & unjust. By this measure the goodness of God leads us to repentance.(Romans 2:4)

Of course, he realized he was prisoner and disgusted by his chains. His will cooperated with God's natural order to be drug-free.

This would not excuse or commend the party who 'proffered the bet' - yet another violation - as the end cannot justify the means. But God can overrule the affairs of men.

He did this in my case of smoking. It was one of the things that helped to cement my faith. It certainly is possible!

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: RLH

You may believe that smoking cigarettes is a temperate thing to do. But I do not. The Bible clearly embraces a health message for the people of God.

HA. Sorry, but I've never met anyone who is qualified, then. Have you ever been to an Adventist potluck?

What do you mean by "qualified, then."

Been to many potlucks? Not sure what your trying to say? Bad food? Too much food? I think we all know how to just eat what is needed! Or are you saying that everyone lights up during potlucks?

[SivartM]

I'm saying that I've never been to an Adventist potluck that followed "the health message". They're usually smorgasbords of sugar, salt, and fat; better than most American diets, but not the pinnacle of health that Adventists like to think of ourselves as representing. And no, we don't all know how to just eat what is needed, unfortunately.

[Woody]

I'm saying that I've never been to an Adventist potluck that followed "the health message". They're usually smorgasbords of sugar, salt, and fat; better than most American diets, but not the pinnacle of health that Adventists like to think of ourselves as representing. And no, we don't all know how to just eat what is needed, unfortunately.

And right on point SivartM

[OzarkWoman]

In fact, the head elder and his wife at the church I attend are diabetic and FAT, I mean the wife is so fat that she has to use a wheelchair, and they love to tell me how my diet is against the Bible because I eat shellfish and catfish and pork. I am overweight, but not like them and I have no issues with blood pressure, cholesteral or any of the other problems associated with being overweight. I actually gained most of my weight during my cancer treatments because I am one of those lucky rare people that gain weight with chemo even though I didn't eat and was sick all of the time. Explain that one.

[cricket]

I still suggest contacting your conference president. He will be happy to baptize you--even if you are a smoker--if you really want to be baptized. Let him know how horrible your pastor is being and also, let him know what you think of your church's head elder and his wife--how you know that their diabetes is caused by overindulgence and the like. Let the conference president know how awful your church is treating you so that something can be done. There is nothing any of us on a website can do for you--having only heard your story--other than pray and offer you advice on what to do. It's up to you to do something if you want to make a change.

You could attend the conference camp meeting in June where you could meet a lot of other conference pastors and their wives, elders and their wives--make them aware of the horrible things going on in your local church so that those things won't continue.

[OzarkWoman]

I still suggest contacting your conference president. He will be happy to baptize you--even if you are a smoker--if you really want to be baptized. Let him know how horrible your pastor is being and also, let him know what you think of your church's head elder and his wife--how you know that their diabetes is caused by overindulgence and the like. Let the conference president know how awful your church is treating you so that something can be done. There is nothing any of us on a website can do for you--having only heard your story--other than pray and offer you advice on what to do. It's up to you to do something if you want to make a change.

You could attend the conference camp meeting in June where you could meet a lot of other conference pastors and their wives, elders and their wives--make them aware of the horrible things going on in your local church so that those things won't continue.

I would not say that the pastor is horrible at all. This just happens to be something he believes in with all that he is. In fact, other than this one thing, I think the world of him and his whole family, not to mention the fact that I have complete respect for him. He and his wife have done more for me than anyone else and have always been there for me.

I also wouldn't say the church is horrible at all. Yes, the head elder and his wife like overindulge with their food and such but I can ignore them, for the most part.

BTW, I don't expect anyone on any website to do anything for me. Sometimes it just helps to get it out is all.

[cricket]

This just happens to be something he believes in with all that he is.

That's important then, that he follow through with his beliefs. Else, what kind of spiritual leader would he be?

I'm glad to know that you do not think he or his wife is horrible. I'm glad to hear that you have complete respect for him. I hope that you can work things out.

[phkrause]

I'm saying that I've never been to an Adventist potluck that followed "the health message". They're usually smorgasbords of sugar, salt, and fat; better than most American diets, but not the pinnacle of health that Adventists like to think of ourselves as representing. And no, we don't all know how to just eat what is needed, unfortunately.

Well I've been to many more potlucks in my life and I have never seen lots of sugar, salt and fat! Lots of food though that's for sure. I will say that there are many overweight people in the SDA church. That can be from overeating even good food! Has nothing to do with eating salt, sugar, etc. Having said that, I know there are many that don't eat correctly, but again lets not knock down every potluck because of overweight people. And there are those overweight people that have a medical condition and that's why they are overweight, not because they over eat!