Just what are we to overcome?

June 9, 2012

The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev. 3:21.

The other word used in a variety of translations is 'overcome'.

So 'overcome what?' is a valid question.

What was it that Jesus was sent to earth to overcome? In reading back over the first 3 pages of comments I did not see anyone mention the word 'sin'. I saw 'evil' several times, but that words is not specific, because it is does not define what evil is.

Also, 'overcome' implies an activity, in other words (horror of horrors) DEEDS. Jesus addresses this in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3. But this is one of the teachings of Jesus that does not coincide with what is thought to be a principle of Christian belief; that what we do does not matter to our salvation.

Here is what Jesus said: "But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

So according the Jesus 'overcoming' involves the deeds of doing what is true. But how do you know what is true.

For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37.

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, (32) and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32.

It is not enough to listen to the words of just anyone that claims to have been sent from God. Anyone can do that, and most will believe them.According to Jesus we must listen to His words, because His words are truth. And not only must we listen to His words we must 'abide' or live in those words. When we do this we will DO the truth because we will actually KNOW what the truth is. And DOING the truth is OVERCOMING the lies that Satan wants us to believe as if they are the truth.

June 9, 2012

Evil is,

kakos kak-os'

apparently a primary word; worthless (intrinsically, such; whereas 4190 properly refers to effects), i.e. (subjectively) depraved, or (objectively) injurious:--bad, evil, harm, ill, noisome, wicked.

Although none of the verses used the word "sin" it is the one today men do not want to put away or that can be overcome.

To overcome evil, Satan, and the world,

When Jesus overcame Satan He overcame sin and sinning which is evil and the way of the world. Men will twist and do all contortions with words to keep on sinning and it is not meant they say to be put away, we are not God.

But Christ within we have every advantage He had. Sin is in the pot to be overcome,

"But a general conviction of sin is not reformative. We may have a vague, disagreeable sense of imperfection, but this will avail us nothing unless we make a decided effort to obtain the victory over sin. If we wish to cooperate with Christ, to overcome as He overcame, we must, in His strength, make the most determined resistance against self and selfishness.—Signs of the Times, March 11, 1897. {BLJ 201.5}

1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Ro 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In th1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.e world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

June 9, 2012

Is Christ truly within? None can be victorious without Him as we are nothing of ourselves to overcome. The supplicant needs go back, do the full surrender of will and his all to allow Christ to be the Master. Self and pride broken and given and the old man dead. Beginning a new life in Him and He in us.

So, what you are saying then is that whoever is not FULLY living Christ's life is NOT saved? Either Christ is within or He is not.

June 9, 2012

Lack of Faith = Lack of Conviction... Wavering... Falling...

The answers as to what we are to overcome are all good. But I believe there is a battle that underlies all of them. Eve lost the battle because she did not believe what God said. King Saul lost his throne (and life) because he did not believe what God said. The first generation of Israelites that left Egypt did not enter Canaan because they did not believe what God said. The real temptation that undergirded all that Jesus went through in the wilderness was to distrust His Father.

Scripture says: Jesus was "in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin," Heb 4:15. "In every respect?" Was Jesus ever tempted to shoot heroin or snort cocaine? Not a chance. But I believe that before a sin is committed, the issue of trust/distrust of God comes into play. I think the "fight of faith" 1 Tim 6:12, is where the battle is. And the greatest sin, the sin that underlies all other sins is the sin of unbelief. Unbelief is the root/trunk, and all the other sins are just the twigs and branches. This is where Jesus was tempted "in every respect" as we all are.

What think ye?

Yes, Gerry. Me thinks you are right on the point.

To me lack of faith is the same as lack of conviction. That is, when I am not sufficiently convinced of something I sense that I should probably do or don't do, then I fail to act consistently upon that basis which I am not sufficiently convinced of.

What it takes before I am fully convinced of some particular is to make myself more aware of that particular. That is, by focusing upon it, by praying about it, by studying more deeply whatever I need to study to have all my own questions answered before I am ready and prepared to take a firm stand upon my conviction.

If and when I don't care enough to do that, I am doomed, by myself and by my own inaction, to remain unconvinced...

And thus I am doomed, by myself, to waver continually upon my lack of faith…. and to suffer the consequences of my lack of faith/conviction!

June 9, 2012

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Is Christ truly within? None can be victorious without Him as we are nothing of ourselves to overcome. The supplicant needs go back, do the full surrender of will and his all to allow Christ to be the Master. Self and pride broken and given and the old man dead. Beginning a new life in Him and He in us.

So, what you are saying then is that whoever is not FULLY living Christ's life is NOT saved? Either Christ is within or He is not.

Like the old saying, for each of us, the proof is in the pudding. Judge for yourself, your ownself but with Christ within we lack no power to do His full will. We must have the victory, that is why He came to give us His Divine Nature and He showed us it could be done, taking no power but what is extended to us to have. Requires us to clean house that He may be the the Master and dwell within.

"Judas had the same precious opportunities as had John to study and to imitate the Pattern. He listened to the lessons of Christ, and his character might have been transformed by divine grace. But while John was earnestly warring against his own faults and seeking to assimilate to Christ, Judas was violating his conscience, yielding to temptation, and fastening upon himself habits of dishonesty that would transform him into the image of Satan. {ML 258.4}

These two disciples represent the Christian world. All profess to be Christ's followers; but while one class walk in humility and meekness, learning of Jesus, the other show that they are not doers of the Word, but hearers only. One class are sanctified through the truth; the other know nothing of the transforming power of divine grace. The former are daily dying to self, and are overcoming sin. The latter are indulging their own lusts, and becoming the servants of Satan.

{ML 258.5}

Conquerors, overcomers of sin, evil, the devil and the world, at which we may be more than conquerors.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

June 9, 2012

One Most Important Point - Greatly Under Rated...

Much has been said about the need to be overcomers or conquerors. But just what are we to overcome?

To me, one most important particular that my Redeemer is teaching me to overcome is that which I find being the very essence of the first three of the Ten Commandments. That is, the issue of whom I am claiming, in word and in action, as being my authorities. That is, such as pertain to my relationship with such powers as are being voted into existence by mere men... The State authorities etc... vs. such powers as belong to none but the Creator God alone...

I've found reasons for spending a considerable portion of my life looking much deeper into those particulars. And what I've found is not pretty!

There is a whole lot more to Peter's words than at first may meet the eye: "We ought to obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29

Remember!:

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6

Seems to me as though Hosea is putting his finger on why so many of us seem to lack faith/conviction re the above said particular...

June 9, 2012

So, what you are saying then is that whoever is not FULLY living Christ's life is NOT saved? Either Christ is within or He is not.

Like the old saying, for each of us, the proof is in the pudding. Judge for yourself, your ownself but with Christ within we lack no power to do His full will. We must have the victory, that is why He came to give us His Divine Nature and He showed us it could be done, taking no power but what is extended to us to have. Requires us to clean house that He may be the the Master and dwell within.

Gibs, can you ever give a straight answer to a very straight question?

June 9, 2012

Revelation 3:21'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.22'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' "

Jesus did not overcome for us. He overcame so we could overcome. He set the standard that we all must fully accomplish. The promise is this, that the right granted to Him to sit on the throne of His Father, will be granted to those who accomplsh what He accomplished.

June 10, 2012

Wayfinder,

Very, very true.

Gerry I gave you a straight answer, I'm not your judge of that, that is your job, I have to do the same, examine ourselves.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

June 10, 2012

The old man has to be crucified.

This is the desires and lusts of the flesh combined with the will.

Unfortunately the old man cannot crucify itself...

Thats why we need Jesus.

So it is the old man we have to overcome...

June 10, 2012

What was it that Jesus was sent to earth to overcome? In reading back over the first 3 pages of comments I did not see anyone mention the word 'sin'. I saw 'evil' several times, but that words is not specific, because it is does not define what evil is.

On what basis does a sinner stand or fall? Does he stand because he has overcome stealing, adultery, bearing false witness? Does he fall because he does those things?

‎ESV ‎‎

Ro 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

‎ESV ‎‎Ro 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

‎ESV ‎‎Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

‎ESV ‎‎Heb 3:18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? ‎‎19 So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

"There is no greater sin than unbelief." ML 14.

If we are justified by faith and condemned by unbelief, it seems clear to me that this is where the real battle is, that the sin to be overcome is the sin of unbelief. It is the root from which all the other sins sprout from.

June 10, 2012

What we are discussing here is extremely serious business here. Do not take my post lightly I pray.

Jesus was an overcomer of all unrighteousness,sin, evil, Satan and his angels and the world.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I don't think we are to pick and choose out what isn't included in what we must overcome. He set the example taking no power but what is ours to overcome as He did. How broad does man want to make the road to the pearly gates anyway. I'll tell you the answer, so the whole world can roll down it with no effort with all the worlds filthy baggage.

Let's face the facts of the way He has made and it cannot be changed or modified to suit anyones preferance. Sin is not to rise up again and if it isn't rooted out in the here and now we are not in. There is man's part in this work of rooting it out and it is not hard at all and none will have any excuse and in the end all knees will bow and acknowledge His righteous judgement of our case and all else.

EGW has no hesitency to tell you this nor do I,

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality."--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG 175.2}

We are playing a serious game of eternal life or eternal death. What will you give? What will you do? None can cobble another way that will reach the coveted goal.

There is not a thing galling about the way He has made, no reason whatsoever that all shouldn't take hold of it gladly and extremely thankfully.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

June 10, 2012

A big Amen to your last two posts Gibs.

I must say what you are teaching is the straight testimony and we are to apply it to ourselves without pointing the figure at anyone.

I myself have been teaching this message for a while and the more I read about it the more I see the need for a revival and reformation on a daily basis.

Gibs, as you have stated the work of overcoming is not our work. It is the work of God and "In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418.

We cannot overcome self and the flesh and the devil on our own.

"No man can empty himself of self. We can only CONSENT for Christ to accomplish the work." C.O.L.159.

We must be filled with all the fullness of God or we will fail miserably:

"In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not also to become partakers of that fullness, and is it not THUS and THUS ONLY that we can overcome as He overcame?" E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7,907.

"When God gave His Son to our world, He endowed humanity with imperishable riches, riches compared with which the treasured wealth of men since the world began is nothingness. Christ came to the earth and stood before the children of men with THE HOARDED LOVE OF ETERNITY, and this is the TREASURE that, through our connection with Him, we are to receive, to reveal, and to impart." Ministry of Healing,37.

"The indwelling of the Spirit will be shown by the outflowing of heavenly love. The divine fullness will flow through the consecrated human agent to be given forth to others. So from every true disciple is to be diffused an influence for life, courage, and helpfulness, and true healing." C.O.L.419.

"The revelation of His own glory in the form of humanity will bring Heaven to near to men that the beauty adorning the inner temple will be seen in every soul in whom the Savior dwells. Men will be CAPTIVATED by the glory of an abiding Christ. And in currents of praise and thanksgiving from the many souls THUS WON TO GOD, glory will flow back to the great Giver." C.O.L.420.

This treasure, the divine fullness, by which we are to overcome as Jesus overcame, is offered to us through the merits of the infinite sacrifice that was made in our behalf as stated in Gib's last post, last quote:

"Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the MERITS of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature?" Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG 175.2}

And this is why I have chosen the signature found at the bottom of my posts.

sky

June 10, 2012

Quote:

Gibs, can you ever give a straight answer to a very straight question?

This is what I've been wondering. I keep shaking my head and wondering when we are going to get some 'straight' testimony instead of this crooked stuff.

June 10, 2012

Quote:

Gibs, can you ever give a straight answer to a very straight question?

This is what I've been wondering. I keep shaking my head and wondering when we are going to get some 'straight' testimony instead of this crooked stuff.

Woody, just for the record, is the following below "crooked stuff"?

"In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418.