Can liberal Christianity be saved??

[olger]

IN 1998, John Shelby Spong, then the reliably controversial Episcopal bishop of Newark, published a book entitled “Why Christianity Must Change or Die.” Spong was a uniquely radical figure — during his career, he dismissed almost every element of traditional Christian faith as so much superstition — but most recent leaders of the Episcopal Church have shared his premise. Thus their church has spent the last several decades changing and then changing some more, from a sedate pillar of the WASP establishment into one of the most self-consciously progressive Christian bodies in the United States.

As a result, today the Episcopal Church looks roughly how Roman Catholicism would look if Pope Benedict XVI suddenly adopted every reform ever urged on the Vatican by liberal pundits and theologians. It still has priests and bishops, altars and stained-glass windows. But it is flexible to the point of indifference on dogma, friendly to sexual liberation in almost every form, willing to blend Christianity with other faiths, and eager to downplay theology entirely in favor of secular political causes.

Yet instead of attracting a younger, more open-minded demographic with these changes, the Episcopal Church’s dying has proceeded apace. Last week, while the church’s House of Bishops was approving a rite to bless same-sex unions, Episcopalian church attendance figures for 2000-10 circulated in the religion blogosphere. They showed something between a decline and a collapse: In the last decade, average Sunday attendance dropped 23 percent, and not a single Episcopal diocese in the country saw churchgoing increase.

This decline is the latest chapter in a story dating to the 1960s. The trends unleashed in that era — not only the sexual revolution, but also consumerism and materialism, multiculturalism and relativism — threw all of American Christianity into crisis, and ushered in decades of debate over how to keep the nation’s churches relevant and vital.

Traditional believers, both Protestant and Catholic, have not necessarily thrived in this environment. The most successful Christian bodies have often been politically conservative but theologically shallow, preaching a gospel of health and wealth rather than the full New Testament message.

But if conservative Christianity has often been compromised, liberal Christianity has simply collapsed. Practically every denomination — Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian — that has tried to adapt itself to contemporary liberal values has seen an Episcopal-style plunge in church attendance. Within the Catholic Church, too, the most progressive-minded religious orders have often failed to generate the vocations necessary to sustain themselves.

Both religious and secular liberals have been loath to recognize this crisis. Leaders of liberal churches have alternated between a Monty Python-esque “it’s just a flesh wound!” bravado and a weird self-righteousness about their looming extinction. (In a 2005 interview, the Episcopal Church’s presiding bishop explained that her communion’s members valued “the stewardship of the earth” too highly to reproduce themselves.)

Liberal commentators, meanwhile, consistently hail these forms of Christianity as a model for the future without reckoning with their decline. Few of the outraged critiques of the Vatican’s investigation of progressive nuns mentioned the fact that Rome had intervened because otherwise the orders in question were likely to disappear in a generation. Fewer still noted the consequences of this eclipse: Because progressive Catholicism has failed to inspire a new generation of sisters, Catholic hospitals across the country are passing into the hands of more bottom-line-focused administrators, with inevitable consequences for how they serve the poor.

But if liberals need to come to terms with these failures, religious conservatives should not be smug about them. The defining idea of liberal Christianity — that faith should spur social reform as well as personal conversion — has been an immensely positive force in our national life. No one should wish for its extinction, or for a world where Christianity becomes the exclusive property of the political right.

What should be wished for, instead, is that liberal Christianity recovers a religious reason for its own existence. As the liberal Protestant scholar Gary Dorrien has caimed, the Christianity that animated causes such as the Social Gospel and the civil rights movement was much more dogmatic than present-day liberal faith. Its leaders had a “deep grounding in Bible study, family devotions, personal prayer and worship.” They argued for progressive reform in the context of “a personal transcendent God ... the divinity of Christ, the need of personal redemption and the importance of Christian missions.” And it sounded good at the time.

Today, by contrast, the leaders of the Episcopal Church and similar bodies often don’t seem to be offering anything you can’t already get from a purely secular liberalism. Which suggests that per haps they should pause, amid their frantic renovations, and consider not just what they would change about historic Christianity, but what they would defend and offer uncompromisingly to the world.

Absent such a reconsideration, their fate is nearly certain: they will change, and change, and die.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opinio...tml?ref=opinion

[Gerr]

It is interesting how the press describes liberals as "progressives" even when they are headed to oblivion.

[Gibs]

There can be not salvation in the extreme liberality that has taken over all the church structures, denominationaly named, today. The extreme liberality has taken over the last bastion of true protestantism also. The SDA church structure. Protestantism has been dead now maybe more than 50 years now.

Jesus not only has power to forgive sin but He also has power that each may obtain to overcome sin in the life. "It is Christ In You The Hope of Glory"! Yes He in you is your only hope as we are nothing of ourselves.

If any SDAdventist treasures EGW's writings at all this extreme liberal business would be put out. Her writings on salvation cannot be denied and they are way out in front the best on salvation ever writen and could be written.

Are her testimonies being made of non effect? Yes and this is one of them!

We are smack dab at this point brought out by this scripture now!

Am 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Am 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

You're hearing a lot of words but no saving salvation being preached. Now ask yourself, what is the most important issue to be preached and understood and lived?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Liberalism is alive and well. Would you like to join my organization? Granted there are only two members who have qualified so far - Gerry and myself. But we would welcome more. Just submit your application and it will be reviewed by the application committee.

[Gibs]

Great liberalism in the giving of our will and love to God and all that we are to please Him is the greatest thing we can do.

But not liberal in doing the least we see needs be done. It will take our all to buy the field we are seeking. Don't chintzy on the giving of ourselves and being Broken to become a new creature in Him and He in us.

He gave His all to save us, How can we do less than give our all?

I have already filled out an application in which He asked, "how much will you give?"

I answered and stated, "I give all that I am into your Hands, as I am yours twice, first by creation and second by Redemption".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

In Jesus’ day there were far more liberal people who accepted his message than the conservative folk. They were too righteous in their own eyes and had no need of what Jesus was offering.

This also reminds me of the parable of the laborers. The ones who worked the longest thought they should receive more than the ones who worked the least but the householder paid the same wage to all. This is a hard lesson to learn. It’s not about how much we do for God but how much God has done for us in giving his son to die for our sins.

Conservatives are more about works and the liberals/progressives are more into faith.

[Gibs]

But we know there is no faith that any will be saved in sin. That would be presumption, not faith.

Liberals, progressives have a false theology of being saved in sin and that God will make them sinless without a death of the old man. Just believe and have faith that Jesus done it all and the law is not relevant is presumption and no truth in it.

To teach otherwise is a grievious sin. You would be in cahoots with the destroyer.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Liberals, progressives have a false theology of being saved in sin

Conservatives have the most egregious belief from the Devil of all - that is that we are saved by works.

[cheddar]

Liberals, progressives have a false theology of being saved in sin and that God will make them sinless without a death of the old man. Just believe and have faith that Jesus done it all and the law is not relevant is presumption and no truth in it.

[Gibs]

Well Cheddar, I must say you have me pictured all wrong. The law is in my heart and it is my love and there is no trying to it. It is my pleasure.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Speaking of Jesus, Mrs. White wrote, "His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess if they will be in subjection to God as He was." D.A.664.

"His experience is to be ours." D.A.363.

How much longer will the Lord have to wait before He finds a people who will be in subjection to Him as Jesus was?

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

How much longer will the Lord have to wait before He finds a people who will be in subjection to Him as Jesus was?

HE can make it happen when He wants. For His people are not getting better.

[doug yowell]

It is interesting how the press describes liberals as "progressives" even when they are headed to oblivion.

I suppose progressing towards a replay of Greek and Roman religious and social culture and a certain hell could still technically be called a progression.

[doug yowell]

What the writer neglected to understand is the real reason why progressives are a dying breed. Rejection of God's Word leaves them without any Substance or Power and renders them incapable of recognizing the dangers of their course.They are like Pharaoh who jremained willing to destroy everyone and everything around him in order to prove that he was smarter.

[doug yowell]

In Jesus’ day there were far more liberal people who accepted his message than the conservative folk. They were too righteous in their own eyes and had no need of what Jesus was offering.

[Gerr]

Speaking of Jesus, Mrs. White wrote, "His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess if they will be in subjection to God as He was." D.A.664.

"His experience is to be ours." D.A.363.

How much longer will the Lord have to wait before He finds a people who will be in subjection to Him as Jesus was?

sky

And this is what the Bible says how I could possess His perfect humanity and His perfect experience can become mine:

ESV | Ro 5:17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

ESV | ‎Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[Gibs]

Gerry,,

Do you think he will hand it to you without surrender of self and your will? Sure it is free, and He leaves you free to be your own or be His. The gift is for His own. Those who are not in His camp are in Satan's. By not choosing is choosing in this case.

No it is not works, it is surrender, death of the old man of sin to become a new creature in Him. Born again if you will!

To balance the ledger,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ro 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Yes, Yes salvation is a free gift, but you better be seeing it is not for he who insists on continuing in sin! Yes you can put it away, but first you must fall on Him and be broken of your spirit, self and be malleable to him the potter.

Then He can come in and empower you to walk as He walked and it must be or fall short of the mark of salvation.

It isn't works, it is faith in Him that He in you and you are strengthened to be an overcomer of all your sinnings.

If He was just going to make you sinless He would not have had to come and died and make a way that you too could overcome sin. No one committing sin will never, ever be in the kingdom as when you die you are raised with the same bent in the heart and soul that you went to sleep, died with. And so the resurrection then would be the second one and not the first.

The hour is late, get it right before it is too late! Wake up time!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

Originally Posted By: cheddar

Conservatives are more about works and the liberals/progressives are more into faith.

And that's why their churches are all dying??

So Christianity is a popularity contest? The one with the highest head count wins.

Let's up those baptismal numbers so we can get more tithe money. Who does that remind me of?

You prove my point oh so well.

[Woody]

Quote:

So Christianity is a popularity contest? The one with the highest head count wins.

Let's up those baptismal numbers so we can get more tithe money. Who does that remind me of?

You prove my point oh so well.

[Woody]

Quote:

Can liberal Christianity be saved??

We are saved. As President of a liberal Christian organization to promote liberal causes - I can say yes - it IS saved.

[Gibs]

Woody,

I just don't think I'll take your judgement on that. Unless you mean you saved all the bylaws and statutes of it to disc or something, is that what is being referred to.

An other thought, Liberalism is by far in the great majority and so what do you feel of that realization when you read Jesus's Words here,

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Many we see went for the wide gate but few through that strait scraping narrow one.

Don't fit the building does it, won't jibe up.

Ah, come on let's go through that narrow and get the world's baggage stripped off!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

Answer to thread title:

No, for there is no other name (but Jesus) given among men whereby we must be saved. But can liberal "Christians" be saved? Yes, by repenting of their unbelief (the core meaning of religious liberalism) and trusting in Christ and His atoning work on the cross and His bodily resurrection.

Repent always,

G

[Woody]

Liberal Og - is just another name for Jesus. It accurately describes His character.

[Woody]

So - to anwer the question:

YES

[doug yowell]

Conservatives are more about works and the liberals/progressives are more into faith.