Can liberal Christianity be saved??

[skyblue888]

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." Testimonies to Ministers,97.

So through faith in the merits of Jesus Christ we may receive the grace of the Holy Spirit and the grace of the Holy Spirit is imparted to keep the soul from what exactly?

"He has made provision that the Holy Spirit may be imparted to every repentant soul, to keep him from sinning." Desire of Ages,311.

A "repentant" soul is a sinner who recognizes his utterly helpless condition and instead of looking to self and his own works for acceptance with God looks to Christ trusting wholly in His all-sufficient merits that He may be clothed with His own robe of righteousness which accomplishes everything as it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See Faith & Works, 65,66 and Testimonies to Ministers,92.

What is our life business: Looking to Christ and trusting in His all sufficient merits. The rest is for Christ's righteousness to accomplish. See T.M.93

This is the point of view of the SoP which is in harmony with the Scriptures.

sky

[phkrause]

Woody,

I just don't think I'll take your judgement on that. Unless you mean you saved all the bylaws and statutes of it to disc or something, is that what is being referred to.

An other thought, Liberalism is by far in the great majority and so what do you feel of that realization when you read Jesus's Words here,

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Many we see went for the wide gate but few through that strait scraping narrow one.

Don't fit the building does it, won't jibe up.

Ah, come on let's go through that narrow and get the world's baggage stripped off!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs, Woody is not judging anybody. There will be as many liberals in heaven as conservative's.

[OzarkWoman]

Gibs, Woody is not judging anybody. There will be as many liberals in heaven as conservative's.

That will only be becausde of the supposed fairness that liberals wish to push on this country. They want equal outcomes.

[skyblue888]

When the going really gets tough both conservatives and liberals whether in Washington or in the churches, will forget their differences and unite. At first they will unite to find a solution to the mounting problems that will be facing the country but when they see that things are only getting worse in spite of their working together they will look for a scapegoat and unite as one body to eliminate a common foe: Christ in the persons of His true disciples who refuse to go along with their methods and plans.

sky

[skyblue888]

Gibs, correct me if I am wrong. I see that you do talk about the necessity of having the righteousness of Christ both imputed and imparted to us that we may be justified and cleansed of all sins, that we may be enabled to overcome all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil and form a Christian character.

However, I find that there is not in your posts a personal emphasis on how we may obtain this righteousness of Christ either imputed or imparted. I find that it is only INCIDENTAL that some of your quotes mention the how. The SoP has made it crystal clear to us that unless we make it our life business to look to Jesus and accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim, we cannot be justified or sanctified. In short we cannot be saved.

Mrs. White gave us the 1888 message of righteousness by faith in clear, distinct lines. Under the subtitle, REJECTING THE LIGHT, she writes;

"Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted Savior and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved (justified and sanctified) than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus. " Testimonies to Ministers.93.

In the Desire of Ages, we read, "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Savior: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." 347.

The first statement shows that we appropriate them by first accepting them and by claiming them for "Jesus was treated as we deserve that we might be treated as He deserves." Desire of Ages.25.

Thus we read, "We shall come in repentance and contrition with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness and learn that we MUST DAILY APPLY to the MERITS of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

Now to me this is the most precious message that God ever sent to His professed people. It shows that the Gospel is just as simple as ABC but, as Mrs. White stated, we do not understand it.

We are under obligation to believe since the Lord has made it clear to us what it is we need to do in order to be justified and sanctified on a daily basis.

"The sinner is justified through the merits of Jesus." Faith & Works,107.

"We are to be transformed through the merits of Christ." Our Father Cares, 204.

Hence we read, "Through the merits of Christ we may find the approval of God." Our Father Cares, 122.

There is no truth so powerful as a truth whose time has come.

sky

[doug yowell]

There will be as many liberals in heaven as conservative's.

[Gibs]

Christ the same yesterday and today and forever, He does not change, neither His requirements for salvation,

Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

So "can liberal Chritianity be saved"? Well it can but there is a problem, the theology must come to the realization any that qualify must be an overcomer.

And Jesus says the same as EGW here,

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality."--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG 175.2}

To SDA's do not lose confidence in EGW, read,

" They had lost confidence in Sister White, not because Sister White had changed but because another spirit had taken possession and control of them. Satan's purpose is, through his devices, to make of none effect the testimonies of the Spirit of God. If he can lead the minds of the people of God to see things in a perverted light, they will lose confidence in the messages God sends through His servants; then he can the more readily deceive, and not be detected. {12MR 201.1}

She was a "square shooter", that is one who spoke truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

No greater feeling than being ignored hehe

[doug yowell]

No greater feeling than being ignored hehe

The OP was directed towards the question of whether liberal Christianity could be saved. Will IOW mainline churches with their attending theology and accompanying lifestyle become completely irrelevant numerically or otherwise? You posted EGW quotes that addressed personal redemption (justification)from sin and added another post which spoke prophetically to a liberal/conservative union. If you can direct these two ideas to the OP I'm thinking the rest of us can know how to respond without going out on another topic.But that's just my observation.

[skyblue888]

All right. Liberals or conservatives can be saved only as they realize their utterly helpless condition and that their only hope is in daily appropriating to themselves the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour by claiming them, that they may become partakers of the divine nature and thus be enabled to form a Christian character. Otherwise they cannot be saved. See T.M.93.

How is that?

sky

[Gibs]

OK, Here's one who isn't afraid to say it. If you are so liberal as I have an idea most are that thinking one need not be an "overcomer" then no you cannot and will not be saved!

Too many are now making a plain thus saith the Lord of non effect from the Bible and also from EGW. She predicted this would be the case in the end time of her testimonies. Is it happening? Yes, face it, are you one that does? I hope not!

Jesus says it and EGW says it. When Jesus says it I believe it Brothers and Sisters!

So you won't have to hunt them up I post them again.

Jesus first,

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.[/color]

Now, EGW, and do not make of non effect her testimony!

"[color:#FF0000]We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality."--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG

175.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

"... Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature?"

This is what I mean Gibs. This is the only one quotation among the many you have quoted on overcoming which mentions the merits of Christ. But even this quotation is not enough because it does not clearly tell us what it is we are to do with the merits of Christ in order to bring His divine nature into our life.

But by comparing statement with statement the light shines.

"Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." F.W.105.

Why, because, "The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

Hence we read, "The merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the foundation of the Christian's faith." G.C.73.

In Testimonies to Ministers, 93, on the very subject of the 1888 message, Mrs. White specifically teaches that we must daily appropriate His merits to ourselves by claiming them. Otherwise we have no hope of becoming partakers of the divine nature by which we may become more than conquerors.

This is the part that is missing in all of your posts. You quote Mrs. White on overcoming and that, as I have said before, is to be commended, but the most important emphasis which should be on the necessity of appropriating to ourselves the merits of Christ is missing.

sky

[skyblue888]

Gibs, here is this statement again:

"Oh be so full of the message that it is like fire shut up in your bones, that you cannot hold your peace. It is true, men will say, 'You are too excited; you are making too much of this matter, and you do not think enough of the law (obedience to the law); now, you are to think more of the law (obedience to the law); don't be all the time reaching for this righteousness of Christ (through His merits), but build up the law (obedience to the law)' Let the law (obedience to the law) take care of itself. We have been at work on the law (teaching and preaching obedience to the law) until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa, without dew or rain. Let us TRUST in the MERITS of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. God help us that our eyes may be anointed with eyesalve that we may see." E.G. White 1888 Materials, Vol.2,557. *parenthesis mine

Tell me Gibs, Where did Mrs. White, in 1888, put the emphasis upon? upon the law, obedience to the law, as you are doing, or upon trusting in the merits of Jesus Christ in order for the law, obedience to the law, to be taken care of?

Seems to me she was putting the emphasis on trusting in the merits of Jesus Christ in order to bring His righteousness into the life and then the requirements of the law are fulfilled.

In Faith & Works, 65,66, she speaks of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into the life," and on page 27 of the same book she writes, "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything," for "it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Testimonies to Ministers,92.

Here again in this section of T.M. she is also speaking of the 1888 message of righteousness by faith in the merits of Jesus Christ.

What say you?

sky

[Gibs]

Love if one has the love of God will fulfill the law and with His Divine Nature in us by Faith in Him we don't have the least ounce of trouble there.

Sky what I'm trying to combat here is the very oposite of what EGW posted back when pulling the church out of legalism. It is the idea one can be saved and not be an overcomer and scripture and EGW make it clear, we must, do you deny it too?

He gives to us every advantage He could posibly give in righteousness and none want to do it as they treasure living in sin, the pleasures of the world. They want to call it works and there is no works to it. The trouble lies in the fact that one must fall on Him and be broken of self, pride and will, the old man must die and none will die this death and then fight they can't overcome.

Of course one can't overcome of one's self, but He won't come in until the house is cleaned of self, pride and self will, it must die.

Sky and all notice the date she made this statement,

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality."--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG

175.2}

It is wake up time you all and stop making of non effect the testimonies and the scriptures, now, as there is not much time left to get it right!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

You are not addressing the points Mrs. White made in the last quotations I have posted. And how can you even suggest that I am denying anything!!!

"Oh be so full of the message that it is like fire shut up in your bones, that you cannot hold your peace. It is true, men will say, 'You are too excited; you are making too much of this matter, and you do not think enough of the law (obedience to the law); now, you are to think more of the law (obedience to the law); don't be all the time reaching for this righteousness of Christ (through His merits), but build up the law (obedience to the law)' Let the law (obedience to the law) take care of itself. We have been at work on the law (teaching and preaching obedience to the law) until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa, without dew or rain. Let us TRUST in the MERITS of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. God help us that our eyes may be anointed with eyesalve that we may see." E.G. White 1888 Materials, Vol.2,557. *parenthesis mine

Tell me Gibs, Where did Mrs. White, in 1888, put the emphasis upon? upon the law, obedience to the law, as you are doing, or upon trusting in the merits of Jesus Christ in order for the law, obedience to the law, to be taken care of?

Seems to me she was putting the emphasis on trusting in the merits of Jesus Christ in order to bring His righteousness into the life and then the requirements of the law are fulfilled.

In Faith & Works, 65,66, she speaks of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into the life," and on page 27 of the same book she writes, "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything," for "it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Testimonies to Ministers,92.

These statements are teaching us the how to obtain this divine nature by which we are made overcomers.

sky

[skyblue888]

Anymore than we can explain the wind or the movements of the Spirit of God upon the heart, "You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27.

So where is the emphasis? Upon obedience per se or upon the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour. Upon the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of Jesus Christ in order to bring the righteousness of God which alone can fulfill the law.

This is the only true faith, the only faith that will benefit us, for it is the faith that brings Christ's righteousness into our life which alone can make us partakers of the divine nature.

sky

[skyblue888]

Gibs, like I said before and I will say it again, I commend you for teaching that it is not only possible to overcome but that we must overcome. All I am asking you is to pay more attention to the way we can attain to righteousness which is through faith of course.

But there is only one faith, one Lord, one baptism which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

You have read the many statements I have quoted here and in other threads dealing with this subject of the merits of Christ and yet you do not seem to think it is important enough.

Look at the following:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness (obedience to the law) is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." F.W.101.

See what I mean?

sky

[Gibs]

Sky I have stated over and over it is not we ourselves that are capable of overcoming. And my thrust is to point out How! It is by the indwelling of His Divine nature, Paul state "Christ in you the hope of glory".

With the liberals here not one inch can be given to them to hold to being saved without being an overcomer. It won't happen. I must not soften the testimony.

Sky it is fine for you to add how the power to become overcomers may be had, that would be a great help to them and me in getting this across.

One of the greatest Merits of Christ is His Divine Nature in us, we must have it or we will be toast.

We must have faith that He made the way that we too as He did be an overcomer. We must have faith that He took no power but what He wants to give to us. It is Free and costs nothing and is not works All want to holler works and there is no works to it.

Neither is there any legalism connected to it. It is by faith and total surrender to Him, fallen and Broken on Him, He now our full Master.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

One of the greatest Merits of Christ is His Divine Nature in us, we must have it or we will be toast.

Since you don't have it - you must be very miserable with this kind of belief. Having the assurance of Salvation is one of the greatest gifts He gives. I pray that you accept it some day.

[skyblue888]

Gibs, thank you for your reply. The divine nature is not one of His merits. Where did you ever read that? We are to become partakers of the divine nature through exercising faith in the merits of His infinite sacrifice. Exercising faith in the merits of Christ's infinite sacrifice is to believe that His merits are sufficient to present and plead before the Father in our behalf and appropriate them by claiming them.

In other words we may claim the gift of His divine nature only as we trust wholly in the merits of His sacrifice for our acceptance with God, for pardon, and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit and it is through the Holy Spirit that we become partakers of Christ's divine nature.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744.

sky

[Gibs]

Oh come on Woody, Paul says it, EGW says it and Jesus Christ says it too by telling us "He That Overcometh", and,

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Paul tells us that is the little ole secret or mystery.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

It is beautiful the Way He has made and what great victory is finally ours.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[olger]

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,[5] even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

not of works, lest anyone should boast.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:1-10

[JoeMo]

It's kinda weird how reading some of the scripture and EGW quotes by Gibs and Sky read differently depending on how one view salvation.

I read the quotes by Sky above:

"You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27.

and

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness (obedience to the law) is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." F.W.101.

All of the scriptures quoted above by Gibs, if you have a mindset that we are saved by the grace, love, and blood of Jesus, kinda support what I and some others have been advocating all along. The sinner is incapable of rendering obedience to the Law. Only by faith can we receive the merits of Christ. The Law only brings condemnation and knowledge of sin. The mystery of the ages is righteousness by faith - claiming and trusting the righteousness of Christ rather than our own perfect obedience to the Law for salvation.

All one has to do is change your attitude about God from Him being a stern disciplinarian to Him being a loving Father; and all of these quotes show God as a lover of our souls rather than the God of wrath. I'm so much more in love with God now with Him as my Father and Jesus as my Brother than I was when I was when I was afraid of them!

Why be miserable, wondering if you ever will be "good enough" when you can have assurance of salvation and experience the love and power of God in you life 24/7 through faith?

[Woody]

Quote:

Why be miserable, wondering if you ever will be "good enough" when you can have assurance of salvation and experience the love and power of God in you life 24/7 through faith?

[Gibs]

The answer as Paul revealed is Christ in you which is your only hope of glory.

Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

He is willing and you must be too, not sitting on your "lees" and saying we can't. Can't never did a thing. Not of yourself but like my favorite verse here below states "He is greater than he that is in the world!".

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

,