Apparent Contradiction that I need help with.

[barnz]

We have a commandment that tells us to not murder, but God did command the forces of Israel to attack the local people in the holy land. How do we explain this?

[M. T. Cross]

They were filthy pagans that worshipped unholy Gods. They didn't really count as people.

[Gibs]

When God commands it, it is a Holy and just war. Wars that men have been fighting are far from that today as who is righteous among them that go to war.

Where today is there a righteous nation among us?

The Lord God only had killed those whom were set and sealed against Him never to repent.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

When God commands it, it is a Holy and just war.

[CoAspen]

[Gibs]

EC,

No more brain washed logic than what you post. You not believing is a problem for us who believe to heed any of your council.

Men's wars have never been Just EC but if God makes it, it is a different story and you will have a chance to take it up with Him.

Then you will find finite wisdom is nothing compared with infinite wisdom.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

EC,

No more brain washed logic than what you post. You not believing is a problem for us who believe to heed any of your council.

[JoeMo]

Hey MT,

I thought you had disappeared - welcome back!

I totally get what you are saying (I also get the sarcasm in your first statement.)

I have no idea why God ordered the massacres He did in the OT. However, I am a Christian believer; and I accept that it was His will. I think some of the Roman, Greek, and Celtic deities did some pretty random stuff too.

God also "did" the flood. I used to think that was pretty random, also. But I think I know why now; and (if my reasoning is correct) it was a good thing ( a discussion for later on).

As far as stuff like the Crusades, the forced conversion of Europeans and indigenous Americans, and the problems between Irish Catholics and Protestants. that's pure evil. No evidence that God had or has anything to do with it.

I for one appreciate your continued presence here. If I had seen the things you have seen on here as a pagan, I would have forgotten about Christianity long ago. Thanks for your persistance. maybe someday, we Christians as a people group will start living and talking as God wants us to.

[Woody]

How is the killing of innocent men, women and children (And babies) EVER considered JUST?

[Woody]

Quote:

(I also get the sarcasm in your first statement.)

Yes - beautiful use of sarcasm.

[Robert]

They were filthy pagans that worshipped unholy Gods. They didn't really count as people.

Really? So Christ died only for those "good enough"? He didn't die for those pagans?

[Robert]

When God commands it, it is a Holy and just war.

Funny, God doesn't demand it any more....Ever since the coming of Christ I can't find one word uttered by God to take up arms and destroy. In fact I'm not sure it was ever God's will to allow the Jews to take up arms. Just like it wasn't His expressed will to allow polygamy & slavery....

[Guest]

Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[M. T. Cross]

They were filthy pagans that worshipped unholy Gods. They didn't really count as people.

[M. T. Cross]

Hey MT,

I for one appreciate your continued presence here. If I had seen the things you have seen on here as a pagan, I would have forgotten about Christianity long ago. Thanks for your persistance. maybe someday, we Christians as a people group will start living and talking as God wants us to.

Dude, someone has to represent the other side around here

Plus I find many of the views here fascinating.

[Woody]

Quote:

Apparently you missed the sarcasm there Robert...

Yeah. IF there were more who used this lost art - then those here might have a greater appreciation for it. :)

[Robert]

Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Ah, yes...God and weapons. Today it's God & guns. Yeah boy..., but back then it was God and swords. Now, I suppose, you are trying your best to prove that Jesus loved swords and that He promoted self-defense.

Well, look at His life. Did He have a sword strapped to His side? No.

Then why did Jesus authorize the purchase of two swords? Snakes and such? Wild animals? I'm not sure, but one thing I'm sure of is that it was not for personal defense. Case in point:

Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him , "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."

BTW, guns don't kill people...no, people with guns kill people.

[Gerr]

Do you have a problem that God wiped out the whole antediluvian populace save 8?

And do you have a problem that in the end, He will also blot out of existence all the wicked?

[Robert]

Do you have a problem that God wiped out the whole antediluvian populace save 8? And do you have a problem that in the end, He will also blot out of existence all the wicked?

Keep in mind Ellen White states that many were laid to rest before the great flood.

God is not the author of sin and death. However, since He has allowed Lucifer to build his kingdom of self on this planet God assumes the blame....So God says "I will destroy..." The same was said of Sodom and Gomorrah, yet as we found out God abandoned those cities. So God goes, trouble follows.

God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36.

[doug yowell]

We have a commandment that tells us to not murder, but God did command the forces of Israel to attack the local people in the holy land. How do we explain this?

First,if you continue reading the whole story you'll notice that much of the time the inhabitants of the land were the ones doing the attacking.Second,God prohibits murder not war against evil. Third, the land of Caanan and quite frankly all the earth belonged to God and He could give it to who(m?)ever He felt would treat it best.The Amorites had their four hundred+ year chance and not only failed to respond to God's standard of care but actually had become so evil that they were sacrificing their own children to false gods. Fourth,if you read the entirety of God's instructions you'll find that each city approached by Israel was first given the opportunity to surrender. Why do you think God spared Rahab and her family? In our sophisticated,NT informed contempory culture of love,love, love (alleged)we seem to overlook just how perverted and evil the land of Caanan actually was. We tend to project that they were just like we are today here in the USA.The short answer would be that there is no contrediction (sorry for the extra commentary)

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Do you have a problem that God wiped out the whole antediluvian populace save 8? And do you have a problem that in the end, He will also blot out of existence all the wicked?

Keep in mind Ellen White states that many were laid to rest before the great flood.

God is not the author of sin and death. However, since He has allowed Lucifer to build his kingdom of self on this planet God assumes the blame....So God says "I will destroy..." The same was said of Sodom and Gomorrah, yet as we found out God abandoned those cities. So God goes, trouble follows.

God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36.

Uh, you still believe Satan brought on the Flood, Rob? When, as EGW said, he even feared for HIS life?

Will Satan bring on the hellfire that will consume him?

That's why Isaiah calls the act of destruction by our holy God who is the creator of all that is good, a "strange act."

[JoeMo]

Hey MT,

You asked the question "Did he (Jesus) die for those that will never choose to follow his path? " The answer is yes, He did. In context, scripture says that people must accept that sacrificial death by faith to obtain salvation; kinda like people have to cash or deposit a $1 million check before they get the money. I can't back it up biblically (and I'll catch some flack for stating it), but I do entertain the idea that at the resurrection of judgement (i.e., at the end of the prophesied millennium), Christ will give all those who never had an opportunity to know the "real" Jesus (not the one their denominations taught them about) before judgement; and make an informed decision whether or not to follow Him. Just a pet theory with no Biblical basis.

No attempt at converting you in this post - converting you is not my job. Just sharing my beliefs with you as you have shared so openly with us.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gerry,

I for one have no problem with anything God did or didn't do to/for people in the OT. Many things happened (and still happen) as a natural consequence of nature or man's own stupid or self-serving decisions. I have my own theory about why the flood was a good thing given other non-human (or partially human) beings who also inhabited the earth at that time; but that is a topic for another thread - maybe not a topic at all. God is sovereign; and He can do whatever He wants. I don't think He's any different now than He was in the OT; I think circumstances are different. Jesus' sacrificial death changed everything.

[Robert]

you still believe Satan brought on the Flood, Rob?

Never said Satan brought it on, but then again sin brings disaster....

[Robert]

...God prohibits murder not war against evil.