Soul sleep and the incarnation.

[earl40]

IYO where was Jesus between His death on the cross and Resurrection? Also does the doctrine of soul sleep sway how you answer this?

[Robert]

IYO where was Jesus between His death on the cross and Resurrection? Also does the doctrine of soul sleep sway how you answer this?

Jesus as God or Jesus as the Son of man?

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: earl40

IYO where was Jesus between His death on the cross and Resurrection? Also does the doctrine of soul sleep sway how you answer this?

Jesus as God or Jesus as the Son of man?

The Pre-Incarnate Christ became man without ceasing to be "God"...

...Jesus as God OR the Son of Man is an Arian phrasing.

...It was covered in the Nicene Creed thread.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post439528

[earl40]

The above replies shows why I am curious. Did Jesus cease to be a man while He was in the grave? Or was Jesus asleep at that time?

Still curious if someone can answer the original question.

[Gerr]

In the tomb.

ESV |Mt 27:57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus.

58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him.

59 And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud

60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had cut in the rock. And he rolled a great stone to the entrance of the tomb and went away.

[Stan]

He was dead in the grave ((the word for grave- is sometimes (Shoel I think) translated as hell)) he raised himself from the grave.

How did he do that? Am going to ask him one day face-to-face

[earl40]

In the tomb.

ESV |Mt 27:57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus.

58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him.

59 And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud

60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had cut in the rock. And he rolled a great stone to the entrance of the tomb and went away.

So Jesus was asleep in the tomb IYO? Notice that in your post it says "his body" was in the grave. IYO was He awake?

[earl40]

He was dead in the grave ((the word for grave- is sometimes (Shoel I think) translated as hell)) he raised himself from the grave.

How did he do that? Am going to ask him one day face-to-face

Jesus said He would raise His body from the grave. Remember when he said that? It was in response to the Pharisee's in reference to the temple.

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body

[Stan]

I have seen a few bodies in graves, they were all dead. Or as Jesus called Sleeping..

I am longing for the great resurrection morning

http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/4-16.htm

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

[earl40]

I have seen a few bodies in graves, they were all dead. Or as Jesus called Sleeping..

I am longing for the great resurrection morning

http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/4-16.htm

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

So where IYO was Jesus beteen grave and resurrection?

[earl40]

Here is one more reason I ask. Can one deny the incarnation when Jesus died by saying Jesus was asleep? IMMHO this touches on an essential of the faith as defined in the creeds which were based on scripture. Each nature (human and divine) kept there atributes at the incarnation. Do we dare say that His human nature stopped or slept because He died on the cross.

[Gibs]

I wonder earl40 exactly what you are wanting to understand, but here is some words from EGW if they are of council to you,

(John 1:1-3, 14; Philippians 2:5-8; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:6, 8; 2:14-17; Hebrews 4:15). Deity Did Not Die.--Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person--the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. Christ, the sinless One, will save every son and daughter of Adam who accepts the salvation proffered them, consenting to become the children of God. The Saviour has purchased the fallen race with His own blood. {5BC 1113.2}

This is a great mystery, a mystery that will not be fully, completely understood in all its greatness until the translation of the redeemed shall take place. Then the power and greatness and efficacy of the gift of God to man will be understood. But the enemy is determined that this gift shall be so mystified that it will become as nothingness (Letter 280, 1904). {5BC 1113.3}

(Matthew 28:5, 6; Luke 24:5, 6; 2:19; John 10:17, 18; Acts 13:32, 33.) When the voice of the angel was heard saying, "Thy Father calls thee," He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died, but Christ now proclaims over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In His divinity Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He had life in Himself to quicken whom He will. {5BC 1113.4}

"I am the resurrection, and the life." This language can be used only by the Deity. All created things live by the will and power of God. They are dependent recipients of the life of the Son of God. However able and talented, however large their capabilities, they are replenished with life from the Source of all life. Only He who alone hath immortality, dwelling in light and life, could say, "I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again." All the human beings in our world take their life from Him. He is the spring, the fountain of life (MS 131, 1897). {5BC 1113.5}

"I am the resurrection, and the life." He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. {5BC 1113.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[earl40]

I wonder earl40 exactly what you are wanting to understand, but here is some words from EGW if they are of council to you,

(John 1:1-3, 14; Philippians 2:5-8; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:6, 8; 2:14-17; Hebrews 4:15). Deity Did Not Die.--Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person--the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. Christ, the sinless One, will save every son and daughter of Adam who accepts the salvation proffered them, consenting to become the children of God. The Saviour has purchased the fallen race with His own blood. {5BC 1113.2}

This is a great mystery, a mystery that will not be fully, completely understood in all its greatness until the translation of the redeemed shall take place. Then the power and greatness and efficacy of the gift of God to man will be understood. But the enemy is determined that this gift shall be so mystified that it will become as nothingness (Letter 280, 1904). {5BC 1113.3}

(Matthew 28:5, 6; Luke 24:5, 6; 2:19; John 10:17, 18; Acts 13:32, 33.) When the voice of the angel was heard saying, "Thy Father calls thee," He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died, but Christ now proclaims over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In His divinity Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He had life in Himself to quicken whom He will. {5BC 1113.4}

"I am the resurrection, and the life." This language can be used only by the Deity. All created things live by the will and power of God. They are dependent recipients of the life of the Son of God. However able and talented, however large their capabilities, they are replenished with life from the Source of all life. Only He who alone hath immortality, dwelling in light and life, could say, "I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again." All the human beings in our world take their life from Him. He is the spring, the fountain of life (MS 131, 1897). {5BC 1113.5}

"I am the resurrection, and the life." He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. {5BC 1113.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Here is the point I am trying to make by asking the the following questions. Did the incarnation cease at the death of Jesus? Now I understand many think that by using the word "incarnation" that Jesus only took on a physical body but if so what became of His human soul when He died? Was that asleep? IOW did the human nature cease to exist at His death IYO?

[Gibs]

Jesus was born a man, one of us and His Father was God. When He died on the cross He died the same as any other human and the same as Jesus said of Lazarus, he sleepeth. The Father dwelt in that human body and was the Deity in Him and of course did not die but went to the grave with that body which was the power within Him to raise himself and when the time came He did just that.

There is more to it than that but is hard for trinitarians to see I believe. There is ONE GOD and He was in Him, Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself. Jesus could say He was the first and last for this reason, the eternal pre-existant one. Only one can say I am the first and Jesus did. Yes for He and the Father are truly ONE.

He died that we need not die the second and eternal death.

You may get all kinds of views on this.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[earl40]

Jesus was born a man, one of us and His Father was God. When He died on the cross He died the same as any other human and the same as Jesus said of Lazarus, he sleepeth. The Father dwelt in that human body and was the Deity in Him and of course did not die but went to the grave with that body which was the power within Him to raise himself and when the time came He did just that.

There is more to it than that but is hard for trinitarians to see I believe. There is ONE GOD and He was in Him, Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself. Jesus could say He was the first and last for this reason, the eternal pre-existant one. Only one can say I am the first and Jesus did. Yes for He and the Father are truly ONE.

He died that we need not die the second and eternal death.

You may get all kinds of views on this.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I read your post a few times and are you saying you do not believe in the Trinity? I appears you are saying something that is so different I can not make heads or tails of such "The Father dwelt in that human body and was the Deity in Him".

[Gerr]

Jesus the man died. His divine nature did not die. It cannot die. We are dealing with a mystery beyond my comprehension.

[12tribes]

The humanity of Jesus died but, not His divinity. I do not know how that works and I do not think we could ever fully comprehend that.

[Gustave]

The above replies shows why I am curious. Did Jesus cease to be a man while He was in the grave? Or was Jesus asleep at that time?

Still curious if someone can answer the original question.

The term sleeping as applied to death was a common one used by both Greeks, Romans and Jews...

...Jesus 'died' like ANY other man would die.

...God became man w/out ceasing to be 'God'.

Subsequent to Jesus' death His soul was in "paradise" with the thief and the other souls of the righteous...

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

[earl40]

Jesus the man died. His divine nature did not die. It cannot die. We are dealing with a mystery beyond my comprehension.

I agree that it was the human nature that died but did that nature become unconscious IYO? If so what does that do to the doctrine that Jesus took on a human nature at His birth? IOW what do you do with the hyp[ostatic union at His death. Do you think it ended?

[earl40]

Originally Posted By: earl40

The above replies shows why I am curious. Did Jesus cease to be a man while He was in the grave? Or was Jesus asleep at that time?

Still curious if someone can answer the original question.

The term sleeping as applied to death was a common one used by both Greeks, Romans and Jews...

...Jesus 'died' like ANY other man would die.

...God became man w/out ceasing to be 'God'.

Subsequent to Jesus' death His soul was in "paradise" with the thief and the other souls of the righteous...

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

Do get me wrong the point of my original post was to show that humans do not sleep when they die. To insist so rips apart the hypostatic union of the 2 natures of Jesus.

Now no doubt it appears we agreee with this but I am concerned on your view of the Trinity as I read in your previous post.

[Gibs]

Yes I think the term is right. The fleshy body dies your soul, spirit dwells in and then the LORD keeps your soul, spirit till the first or second resurrection. But it sleeps until then. It is plain the dead, sleeping know nothing and take part in nothing under the sun.

We have the tendency to think our body is the real you but it is not, your spirit, soul is. It don't die unless you are partaker of the second resurrection and then you are raised to meet your Maker and realize why you are to then be no more eternally.

Yes I feel we sleep until resurrected again. Let's all make it the first one!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[earl40]

Yes I think the term is right. The fleshy body dies your soul, spirit dwells in and then the LORD keeps your soul, spirit till the first or second resurrection. But it sleeps until then. It is plain the dead, sleeping know nothing and take part in nothing under the sun.

We have the tendency to think our body is the real you but it is not, your spirit, soul is. It don't die unless you are partaker of the second resurrection and then you are raised to meet your Maker and realize why you are to then be no more eternally.

Yes I feel we sleep until resurrected again. Let's all make it the first one!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So the humanity of Jesus slept between the cross and His resurrection IYO?

[Gibs]

Not exactly as you state, "So the humanity of Jesus slept between the cross and His resurrection IYO?". His Body lay there and was not to be dead long enough to see corruption, the spirit, which is the life of the body was to re-enter it before it did and it did and He became a living human again. Deity vested in Him of the Father took care of the situation.

For sure He took no part as a human in anything that went on, but the Father that was in Him was not asleep. But the Spirit of the man left the body and He, Jesus slept. When He came back it was as if only a nites sleep.

Please any and all, I'm not into texting and the abeviations used lots of times used I don't get them. They may be common to you but not to all of us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[earl40]

Not exactly as you state, "So the humanity of Jesus slept between the cross and His resurrection IYO?". His Body lay there and was not to be dead long enough to see corruption, the spirit, which is the life of the body was to re-enter it before it did and it did and He became a living human again. Deity vested in Him of the Father took care of the situation.

For sure He took no part as a human in anything that went on, but the Father that was in Him was not asleep. But the Spirit of the man left the body and He, Jesus slept. When He came back it was as if only a nites sleep.

Please any and all, I'm not into texting and the abeviations used lots of times used I don't get them. They may be common to you but not to all of us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The above sounds like you think Jesus was uncousious between the cross and resurection. Jesus was totally alive at that time for He says He would raise His body.

[Gustave]

The above replies shows why I am curious. Did Jesus cease to be a man while He was in the grave? Or was Jesus asleep at that time?

Still curious if someone can answer the original question.