Soul sleep and the incarnation.

[Gibs]

The above sounds like you think Jesus was uncousious between the cross and resurection. Jesus was totally alive at that time for He says He would raise His body.

[Gustave]

The SDA's are Anthropormorphite in their view of the Pre-Incarnate Christ, God the Father, Lucifer and all the other angels therefore they would reject the Hypostatic Union. According to Ellen White God the Father, Michael & Lucifer the archangels, the other archangels and of course the lower angels all had hominid bodies of "flesh". Thus there would be no need of a H.U.

The theology equates to the pre-Incarnate dropping His hominid body of flesh so that He could be born into human flesh along with His conditional deity. This was covered in the "why SDA's reject the Nicene Creed" thread on page 2.

[earl40]

So was the thief awake with Jesus in paradice IYO?

[earl40]

The SDA's are Anthropormorphite in their view of the Pre-Incarnate Christ, God the Father, Lucifer and all the other angels therefore they would reject the Hypostatic Union. According to Ellen White God the Father, Michael & Lucifer the archangels, the other archangels and of course the lower angels all had hominid bodies of "flesh". Thus there would be no need of a H.U.

The theology equates to the pre-Incarnate dropping His hominid body of flesh so that He could be born into human flesh along with His conditional deity. This was covered in the "why SDA's reject the Nicene Creed" thread on page 2.

If true that is not good, not good at all.

[Gustave]

Ellen White wrote a great deal on the importance of "The Personality of God" to SDA's...

...The SDA's devoted a literal ton of space in their publications as to what that term meant.

...It meant one thing - God the Father, Michael and Lucifer the arcangels & all the other angels.

...Had hominid bodies of FLESH complete with every organ and part of a perfect man.

I've documente this directly from their own archives.

[Gustave]

So was the thief awake with Jesus in paradice IYO?

The spirit the thief who Jesus forgave was aware he was WITH Christ...

...The mortal body of the theif was killed by the romans and was "sleeping".

Romans 8,37

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death , nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

Are you or your Grandpa ( who died ) separated from each other's love? To God all in Him are alive according to Scripture - thus death does not separate those in Christ from Christ.

Romans clearly states that the Christian who is right with God has "already" conquerored "death" ( through Christ )....

...And that's why death is specifically mentioned as not being able to separate us from Christ.

[earl40]

Originally Posted By: earl40

So was the thief awake with Jesus in paradice IYO?

The spirit the thief who Jesus forgave was aware he was WITH Christ...

...The mortal body of the theif was killed by the romans and was "sleeping".

Romans 8,37

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death , nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

Are you or your Grandpa ( who died ) separated from each other's love? To God all in Him are alive according to Scripture - thus death does not separate those in Christ from Christ.

Romans clearly states that the Christian who is right with God has "already" conquerored "death" ( through Christ )....

...And that's why death is specifically mentioned as not being able to separate us from Christ.

The body of the thief was dead and not sleeping. Sleeping is a metaphor that was and is used to described someone as being dead...as in dead as a doornail. I hope you meant such. Though I will not quibble on how you use "spirit" instead of soul for I hope to believe there may be no substantive difference in the opinion that man has 2 aspects of his humanity. One being the material the other being immaterial.

[Gustave]

The body of the thief was dead and not sleeping. Sleeping is a metaphor that was and is used to described someone as being dead...as in dead as a doornail. I hope you meant such. Though I will not quibble on how you use "spirit" instead of soul for I hope to believe there may be no substantive difference in the opinion that man has 2 aspects of his humanity. One being the material the other being immaterial.

What are you trying to say? Both the Thief and Christ were "dead as a doornail"...

...Yes, sleeping was simply AKA death.

...Yes, the spirit ( soul ) of man is imaterial and does not die with the body.

[Robert]

Did Jesus cease to be a man while He was in the grave? Or was Jesus asleep at that time?

Romans 6:6 "For we know that our old self (our life from Adam) was crucified with him (Christ) ...."

At the incarnation the Son of God (Deity) was mysteriously combined with our humanity from the womb of Mary. Hence Christ was both God (Deity) and the Son of man (human).

At death Christ's assumed humanity died forever. That old life never came up. That old life was our life after the fall.

[Robert]

he raised himself from the grave

Acts 2:31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact

[Robert]

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.

When the voice of the mighty angel was heard at Christ's tomb, saying, Thy Father calls Thee, the Saviour came forth from the grave by the life that was in Himself. [Ellen White]

Christ's humanity (our humanity) died the 2nd death. That life didn't come up from the grave. At the resurrection God the Father called forth Christ's Deity (which was dormant) all through Christ's human life. Christ then rose up with life that was in His Deity. He also came up with a glorified humanity free from indwelling sin.

[Robert]

"I am the resurrection, and the life." He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. {5BC 1113.6}

Let's break this down:

"I (Divinity) am the resurrection, and the life." He who had said, "I lay down my life (my human life), that I might take it again," (in a glorified state) came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. {5BC 1113.6}

[earl40]

Originally Posted By: earl

The body of the thief was dead and not sleeping. Sleeping is a metaphor that was and is used to described someone as being dead...as in dead as a doornail. I hope you meant such. Though I will not quibble on how you use "spirit" instead of soul for I hope to believe there may be no substantive difference in the opinion that man has 2 aspects of his humanity. One being the material the other being immaterial.

What are you trying to say? Both the Thief and Christ were "dead as a doornail"...

...Yes, sleeping was simply AKA death.

...Yes, the spirit ( soul ) of man is imaterial and does not die with the body.

Both of the bodies were dead. The human soul's of Jesus and the thief were awake after their bodies died.

[earl40]

Originally Posted By: Stan

he raised himself from the grave

Acts 2:31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact

So what of the quote from the bible that Jesus said He would raise His body? I do not disagree that scripture indeed say's all 3 members of the Trinity say they raise the body. My point is that human nature The immaterial soul) of Jesus was awake after the cross and before the Resurrection and that the joining of the divine with the human nature NEVER ceased after the cross.

[Gerr]

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

Neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that day. Put the comma after "today" and you will have it correct.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

Neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that day. Put the comma after "today" and you will have it correct.

Just to add to that Jesus said this after the Resurrection.

John 20:17 KJV

(17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

[Gerr]

Both of the bodies were dead. The human soul's of Jesus and the thief were awake after their bodies died.

KJV 1900 | ‎Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

ESV | ‎Ge 2:7 then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

ESV | ‎Ec 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. ‎6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

ESV 1 Tim 6:15-16he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, ‎16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light,

ESV | ‎Ps 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

ESV | ‎Ps 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

ESV Gen 3:19 you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

NRSV | ‎Ec 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

Neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that day. Put the comma after "today" and you will have it correct.

Exactly Gerry.

[phkrause]

[Just to add to that Jesus said this after the Resurrection.

John 20:17 KJV

(17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

[Robert]

So what of the quote from the bible that Jesus said He would raise His body? I do not disagree that scripture indeed say's all 3 members of the Trinity say they raise the body. My point is that human nature The immaterial soul) of Jesus was awake after the cross and before the Resurrection and that the joining of the divine with the human nature NEVER ceased after the cross.

Read #571876 again

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

Neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that day. Put the comma after "today" and you will have it correct.

Right, Jesus died Friday, but the thief died later. Common sense.

[earl40]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

..."Today [ not tomorrow or the end of time ] you shall be with me in paradise".

Neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that day. Put the comma after "today" and you will have it correct.

Then how could He (Jesus) raise His body like He said He would?

Your post is exactly why I brang this topic up....For Scripture says specifically that He would raise His body. Can't do that if one is asleep. Or rent the human nature (iommaterial) apart from the divine nature after the cross.

[earl40]

..."Today Just to add to that Jesus said this after the Resurrection.

John 20:17 KJV

(17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This is in reference to the bodilly assention which indeed had not happened yet.

[earl40]

Originally Posted By: earl40

So what of the quote from the bible that Jesus said He would raise His body? I do not disagree that scripture indeed say's all 3 members of the Trinity say they raise the body. My point is that human nature The immaterial soul) of Jesus was awake after the cross and before the Resurrection and that the joining of the divine with the human nature NEVER ceased after the cross.

Read #571876 again

I read it again and do indeed say ALL 3 members of the Trinity were involved in the resurrection. Do you deny such? Read what Jesus said "I will raise".

[Dr. Waite]

ear140 states:

"So what of the quote from the bible that Jesus said He would raise His body? I do not disagree that scripture indeed say's all 3 members of the Trinity say they raise the body. My point is that human nature The immaterial soul) of Jesus was awake after the cross and before the Resurrection and that the joining of the divine with the human nature NEVER ceased after the cross."

Then how could He (Jesus) raise His body like He said He would?

Your post is exactly why I brang this topic up....For Scripture says specifically that He would raise His body. Can't do that if one is asleep. Or rent the human nature (iommaterial) apart from the divine nature after the cross.