And they overcame by....

[Robert]

Rev 12:11 They (the final generation) won the victory over him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb (Christ's life laid down in death) and by the truth which they proclaimed that they were willing to give up their lives and die.

1] They overcame because of what Christ did 2000 years ago. By His death they had been justified unto life. Basically they have the assurance of salvation.

2] The evidence that this group is resting fully in Christ is that "they loved not their lives even unto death".

What does that phase mean?

[Gibs]

It means to me they would be martyrs for Him and the truth and not cave in to a lie but would die defending it and Him.

I would and I probably will if I live long enough.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Jeremiah 33:3]

I agree that Jesus death sacrifice saves us. However, despite what the Bible teaches, the modern SDA church teaches today that Jesus DID NOT COMPLETELY DIE. That some piece or part of him was still alive somewhere, because he is God.

So, how can anyone overcome, if they really and truly don't believe the Son of God died in our place? As an atonement for OUR sins?

If you really study as a Berean/wise virgin - you will find this to be the God's honest truth.

Please join the procession that the wise virgins joined today.

1844 Great Controversy, p. 250: At the call, "The Bridegroom cometh; GO YE OUT to meet him," the waiting one "arose and trimmed their lamps;" they studied the word of God with an INTENSITY of interest before UNKNOWN. Angels were sent from Heaven to arouse those who had become discouraged, and prepare them to receive the message." {4SP 250.2}

See Acts 17:11 and 2 Tim 2:15.

The parable of the Bridegroom coming and the command to GO YE OUT to meet Him refers to the close of probation not the 2nd coming. Matt 25:10 and 8T page 247

The WISE virgins JOIN the procession who are giving the midnight cry...the foolish learn too late...that they are not part of the church TRIUMPHANT. Zion the church of the firstborn. Who follow Jesus wherever He goes.

"The state of the Church represented by the FOOLISH virgins, is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." RH 8-18-1890 par. 10

[Robert]

I agree that Jesus death sacrifice saves us. However, despite what the Bible teaches, the modern SDA church teaches today that Jesus DID NOT COMPLETELY DIE. That some piece or part of him was still alive somewhere, because he is God.

A bit off topic.

[Gibs]

Yes Jesus the man died in totallity but the Deity vested in Him did not.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that "God" was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ( "God", Yahweh the Father )

Sister White, states it this way,

"(Matthew 28:5, 6; Luke 24:5, 6; 2:19; John 10:17, 18; Acts 13:32, 33.) When the voice of the angel was heard saying, "Thy Father calls thee," He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died, but Christ now proclaims over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In His divinity Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He had life in Himself to quicken whom He will." {5BC 1113.4}

"When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible." {5BC 1113.2}

God cannot be killed as He is The Eternal One and He is Spirit,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

They overcame because of what Christ did 2000 years ago. By His death they had been justified unto life. Basically they have the assurance of salvation.

Well, that's certainly what the Sunday keepers believe.

Already saved, always saved.

[Gibs]

Also what do we do then with the statement Jesus said here,

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

The idea that one is already saved without anything being required on the part of the sinner, goes against almost everything the Bible has to say about salvation.

Will both of the thieves that were beside Jesus be in heaven, or just one? Why?

[JoeMo]

I disagree. The idea that we can do anything (other than believe and trust) to affect our salvation goes against everything taught by Jesus and the apostles.

[Gibs]

JM

I think you are forgetting faith and love will do the works of faith and love, willingly and loving to do it.

Repentance enters in the picture also and the death of self broken and humbled and having Him be the Master now.

Just as you love your wife and children you do all you can for them and no doubt lay down your life for them.

Would you not do as much or more for Jesus, He is really first and best is He not?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

Also what do we do then with the statement Jesus said here,

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Heb 12:1 Therefore seeing we also are surrounded with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily ensnare us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Ecc 12:13,14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

All these expect to be saved by Christ's death, while they refuse to live His self-sacrificing life. They extol the riches of free grace, and attempt to cover themselves with an appearance of righteousness, hoping to screen their defects of character; but their efforts will be of no avail in the day of God. The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin. {COL 316}

[Robert]

The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin.

Here are statements from Ellen White:

“The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Those who follow him must share his poverty. “If any man will come after me,” he declares, “let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” “So shall ye be my disciples.”

Why didn't Jesus have a roof over His head? Why didn't He get a good paying job, build Him a house and live the good life?

Answer: "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself."

Further more Ellen states that "The lover of self is a transgressor of the law".

She says, "Self-love, self-interest, must perish."

It seems that you and everyone on CA are practicing sin - the sin of self-love!

So according to your own theology that cherished sin stands against you. Hence no heaven for you and everyone else. Satisfied?

[Gibs]

Don't worry Robert, those who do truly follow Christ will soon all be homeless. We will share His poverty in a far more grusome way though however, there won't be fellow men to offer us a stay. Angels will come and lead us to a safe place of hiding.

No the righteousness of Christ will not cover one sin to the great percent who are thinking so because they do not have that faith and love that produces any work. All they have is presumption and no love for Him to please Him.

Please also Robert bring down the whole quote you are contending with, in this case above,

"All these expect to be saved by Christ's death, while they refuse to live His self-sacrificing life. They extol the riches of free grace, and attempt to cover themselves with an appearance of righteousness, hoping to screen their defects of character; but their efforts will be of no avail in the day of God. The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." {COL 316}

Did not EGW not have any basis for that statement, yes it is in the statement and that's why we need it all!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

So according to your own theology that cherished sin stands against you. Hence no heaven for you and everyone else. Satisfied?

So everyone living indoors is going to hell? Can you not hear how foolish that sounds?

I guess a little bit of fanaticism can take a person way waaaay of course. Especially when you couple it with a desire to somehow get around a plain thus saith the Lord.

Abraham, Job, David, etc. etc. all had way more than just a roof over their head. And yet the scriptures proclaim that they were righteous. ("Have you considered my servant Job?") So your theory doesn't hold up.

I don't think you really hold that belief though. It's just a distraction. Which is what you do anytime your "theology" is refuted by plain scripture. You say something so absurd that it takes attention off of that fact.

[Guest]

So back to some biblical facts:

Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty..

If one will not confess and forsake, by God's grace, then they are still guilty. And still cherishing their sin.

[Robert]

Don't worry Robert, those who do truly follow Christ will soon all be homeless.

But for now you are indulging the flesh, right?

[Robert]

So everyone living indoors is going to hell?

Did I say that? No! The question is how did you get a roof over your head? Was it from the agape of others (hence a gift), or did self-interest and self-love get that roof over your head? If the latter, that's iniquity...that' sin.

[Robert]

If one will not confess and forsake, by God's grace, then they are still guilty.

Then forsake your love of self & your self-interests! Again, EGW:

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439]

That love which is not self-seeking is agape. Agape is the fulfillment of the law. Self-love is the fulfillment of sin. So, you can keep the law outwardly (as the Pharisees) and yet be keeping sin.

[Robert]

"Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself."

Did Jesus have an education? Yes! What did He do with it? He lived for others. As the Bible says He was servant of all! He lived not for Himself.

Now read Ellen White:

"At such a time as this, what is the trend of the education given? To what motive is appeal most often made? To self-seeking. Much of the education given is a perversion of the name. In true education the selfish ambition, the greed for power, the disregard for the rights and needs of humanity, that are the curse of our world, find a counterinfluence."

What's the reason we get educated? To have things....That's self-seeking. Christ never lived for Himself in a world dominated by self-interests. Hence He had nothing.

You holy Joes (who make is so hard for others to enter the Kingdom of heaven) say we must not have any cherished sins, yet you live in self-indulgence. You are like the young rich ruler compared to Christ's poverty.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

So everyone living indoors is going to hell?

Did I say that? No! The question is how did you get a roof over your head? Was it from the agape of others (hence a gift), or did self-interest and self-love get that roof over your head? If the latter, that's iniquity...that' sin.

So then, everyone who has a roof over their head, but had to work for it, is going to hell.

I see.

[Robert]

So then, everyone who has a roof over their head, but had to work for it, is going to hell.

Why did you work for your home? Answer: You love yourself! That's self-seeking. Agape has no self in it. It lives only for others. Would you like to see evidence? Good:

You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439]

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

[Gibs]

Robert, like you maybe, when it rains we just have a tarp we keep over our computers so we can be online and keep dry.

You talk of agape, now if one truly does have AGAPE LOVE he does fulfill the law from his love for Him of Him who it is a transcript of.

Since you preach agape and don't add love to it you make me wonder.

Love, Charity is the bond of perfectness,

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

1Co 16:14 Let all your things be done with charity.

Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

I project then that it must be AGAPE LOVE to Him and our fellow man and we will do no wrong toward either.

Just as great as our agape love to Him will be the measure of which we please Him.

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

The closest thing to the above was seen in the early church:

Acts 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind (there was unity on the gospel). No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. (There was no self-interests) ... (the result?) 34 There were no poor persons among them.

[Robert]

....when it rains we just have a tarp we keep over our computers so we can be online and keep dry.

Wow! ....Holy Joe!. Christ had nothing because there was never any self-seeking and self-interests in His life.

You guys preach to others to be perfect, stop sinning, don't have any cherished sins, while you condone sin yourself. Hypocrites!

"Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption." RH Sep 25, 1900

[Gibs]

Aren't you glad some gave Jesus shelter when He was here. Except when it was rather warm out I rather think He was welcomed in or was in a synagogue somewhere preaching.

Would you have welcomed him in since He preached overcoming pretty strongly. I know you don't welcome my and others testimony on it. Perhaps though you would give us shelter I hope if needed. The agape in you would I'm sure.

For sure nothing we have is ours, it is His and we are His, twice, first by creation and then by redemption.

I am His, I am His subject, I will to do His total will and love to do it. I have come to hate sin. I want no part of it and detest to ever give over to Satan the very least.

We must be fully consecrated to Him. It will take our all to be in that Heavenly Kingdom He has for us.

After the transgression of Adam in Eden it was Christ whom God gave to us, not that we might be saved in our sins, but that we might be saved from our sins, that we should return to our loyalty to God and become obedient children. As we yield our minds, our souls, our bodies, and our all to the controlling Spirit of God, it is then that the Spirit of truth is with us and we can become intelligent in regard to this great plan of redemption. {1888 74.3}

It is true that God gave His only-begotten Son to die for us, to suffer the penalty of the [broken] law of God. We are to consider this and dwell upon it. And when our minds are constantly dwelling upon the matchless love of God to the fallen race, we begin to know God, to become acquainted with Him, to have a knowledge of God, and of how Jesus Christ, when He came to our world, laid aside His royal robes and His kingly crown and clothed His divinity with humanity. For our sakes He became poor that we through His poverty might be made rich. The Father sent His Son here, and right here on this little atom of a world were enacted the grandest scenes that were ever known to humanity. {1888 75.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world