And they overcame by....

[Guest]

Why did you work for your home? Answer: You love yourself! That's self-seeking.

As usual, your fanatical rantings do not jive with scripture.

Isa 65:21,22 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and my elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

No Robert, working to provide a home for yourself and your family is not a sin. As shown right here in Isa 65.

It simply means that you're not insane, or in dire need of a looney bin, or a nervous hospital. But anything can be taken to the extreme. I'm pretty sure you probably live in a grass hut.

[Robert]

Aren't you glad some gave Jesus shelter when He was here.

[Robert]

Yes, the redeemed will build houses, but no one will think of himself and therefore there will be no self-interests. You'll build for others and they for you.

Now, does this agree with the context? Yes:

verse 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years..."

As you know no death will be in heaven. So, if I build a home for you that home will always be occupied by you. How so? You'll never die. Therefore "22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them."

You need to look at Is. chapter 65 through the eyes of agape and not your love of self.

[Guest]

This also shows your extremism to be contrary to scripture:

1Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

The Acquisition of Wealth Not a Sin

The Bible does not condemn the rich man because he is rich; it does not declare the acquisition of wealth to be a sin, nor does it say that money is the root of all evil. On the contrary, the Scriptures state that it is God who gives the power to get wealth. {CS 138}

The Bible does not condemn genius or art; for these come of the wisdom which God gives. We cannot make the heart purer or holier by clothing the body in sackcloth, or depriving the home of all that ministers to comfort, taste, or convenience. {CS 138.2}

I saw that if, in the providence of God, wealth has been acquired, there is no sin in possessing it; and if no opportunities present themselves to use this means to advance the cause of God, there is no sin in still possessing it. {1T 169}

Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth..

[Robert]

The Acquisition of Wealth Not a Sin

Sure it is....It's self-seeking!

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

The Acquisition of Wealth Not a Sin

Sure it is....It's self-seeking!

You're only arguing with the Bible and EGW, not me. I didn't write any of that.

[Robert]

Quote:

The Bible does not condemn the rich man because he is rich; it does not declare the acquisition of wealth to be a sin, nor does it say that money is the root of all evil.

Matt 19: 23 "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

[Guest]

The Acquisition of Wealth Not a Sin

The Bible does not condemn the rich man because he is rich; it does not declare the acquisition of wealth to be a sin, nor does it say that money is the root of all evil. On the contrary, the Scriptures state that it is God who gives the power to get wealth. {CS 138}

The Bible does not condemn genius or art; for these come of the wisdom which God gives. We cannot make the heart purer or holier by clothing the body in sackcloth, or depriving the home of all that ministers to comfort, taste, or convenience. {CS 138.2}

I saw that if, in the providence of God, wealth has been acquired, there is no sin in possessing it; and if no opportunities present themselves to use this means to advance the cause of God, there is no sin in still possessing it. {1T 169}

Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth..

[Robert]

You're only arguing with the Bible and EGW, not me. I didn't write any of that.

Then Ellen White contradicts herself:

"Those who follow him must share his poverty"

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth."

Notice, you don't seek your own wealth, but another's wealth. Hence anything outside agape is sin. Who are you kidding?

[Guest]

Quote:

The Bible does not condemn the rich man because he is rich; it does not declare the acquisition of wealth to be a sin, nor does it say that money is the root of all evil.

Matt 19: 23 "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

It says hard, not impossible. Nor does it call being rich a sin. It is hard because with great wealth comes great temptation. To be more like the world and slip away from God. But nowhere in all the Bible does it call it a sin.

[Robert]

We cannot make the heart purer or holier by clothing the body in sackcloth, or depriving the home of all that ministers to comfort, taste, or convenience.

No kidding! You know why? Because it would be a thing of self-righteousness. "Look how poor I am" (like Gibs does).

However, if you had nothing because of agape then it would be real righteousness.

Christ had nothing, not because He was putting on a show, but because there was never in His life self-seeking and self-love.

You have because you are a sinner in a sinful world dominated by self-interests. You are a sinner and your possessions prove it!

So stop reducing the law to rules you can keep while ignoring the heart of the law - "you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself."

If you loved your neighbor as you naturally love yourself your neighbor would have your goods, but instead you love yourself. That's sin!!!!!!!!

[Robert]

Nowhere in all the Bible does it call it a sin.

No riches aren't a sin because in heaven you'll be richer than the richest man on earth now.

What's sin is how you got those riches. Did you do it through the love of self or did others live for you? Yes?

"In heaven none will think of self...."

Why? Satan invented the love of self and self-seeking.

[Robert]

It says hard, not impossible.

Wow...how you utterly twist....

24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

In other words it is impossible!!!!!

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Nowhere in all the Bible does it call it a sin.

No riches aren't a sin because in heaven you'll be richer than the richest man of earth now.

The Bible is very plain that it is not a sin to have riches here on this earth now. I have just shown you that. But you are twisted Robert, and far from the truth. I'm giving your thread back now.

I can't believe I let you keep me from serious Bible study for this long.

[Robert]

Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth..

You have life, right? What do you do with it? You sin....Hugh Hefner (Playboy) is very rich. Who made that possible? God! Does God approve? No, but He gave him life and he serves himself.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

It says hard, not impossible.

Wow...how you utterly twist....

24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

In other words it is impossible!!!!!

Read the next verse!

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

NOT IMPOSSIBLE!!!

[Robert]

The Bible is very plain that it is not a sin to have riches here on this earth now.

Right, but though self-seeking it is sin. If I give build you a house and give it to you because I love you more than myself it is not sin for you to have that wealth.

God is building you mansions in heaven now. It's a gift and it's not sin for you to have it.

[Robert]

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

NOT IMPOSSIBLE!!!

In other words if a rich man can't make it to heaven who can? That's how the Jew in Christ's day thought. Why? Because to the disciples a rich man was a good man blessed of God because of his obedience.

Yes, Christ can save even the rich man because He has delivered the believer from under law. Under law you must stop all self-seeking...you must stop your love of self. Comprehend?

"therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."

[Robert]

"therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."

My point in all this is stop demanding of believers that which you are not doing yourself.....!

[Gibs]

Robert, you are telling us to sell all etc., I think from that Robert prob. operates under a tarp or under a bridge. But they kick people out around here camping out under a bridge.

We had a mild winter here last winter but most of them it does get down to -20degrees and so ya needs more than a sleeping bag under a tarp and someone willing to let you camp on their property, them people is hard to find. There used to be a song, "may I sleep in your barn tonight mister" but these days that sing prob. wouldn't get ya a place.

He wanted disciples to sell all they had and follow Him and be supported by the gospel and He and they were.

Satan supports the givers of the false gospel in a very far more luxurious life, their is lots of them, yes and doing miracles. They commit more sin than any in their church following I'd suspect. They are having their heaven now. Trouble is it is so short, don't go for it.

We are not to support such in means or by voice and action, but,

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)

2Co 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

2Co 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

In other words if a rich man can't make it to heaven who can? That's how the Jew in Christ's day thought. Why? Because to the disciples a rich man was a good man blessed of God because of his obedience.

Ellen White:

They had been taught to look upon the rich as the favorites of heaven; worldly power and riches they themselves hoped to receive in the Messiah's kingdom; if the rich were to fail of entering the kingdom, what hope could there be for the rest of men?

[Robert]

Robert, you are telling us to sell all etc.

No, Christ tells the self-righteous to sell all their possessions because under law it requires agape love. You are either under law or not. If under law you better stop sinning. Sell all you have and give it to the poor and don't except any praise because that too would be sin.

[Robert]

He wanted disciples to sell all they had and follow Him and be supported by the gospel and He and they were.

“The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Those who follow him must share his poverty. “If any man will come after me,” he declares, “let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” “So shall ye be my disciples.” [RH 7-4-1912]

BTW, the disciples didn't give up all they had out of agape love. No, they did it for self-centered motives.

Matt 19:27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"

You know what...I just helped the little old lady next door. Isn't that righteous of me?

What I didn't tell you is that I did it so she would remember me in her will since she is about to kick the bucket anyway.

Get my drift?

The law requires even your motive to be correct....

[Gibs]

How would you know Robert what we are doing? Besides I and we don't demand anything of you or anyone. We are trying to point out one can be an overcomer in this life and He expects it since He has made the way for each to do it.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

So please don't sit in judgement on me or those who teach overcoming as it is plainly possible.

At this point we see you can't find it to be one who can overcome. I truly wish you could and I labor to help you to find the way of it.

Can we walk as Christ walked? Yes indeed! That is what He came for, first to die for you and me and wash us clean of our sin and all who will come and then that He would come and dwell in you that you too could walk the walk as well as the talk.

"The service of Christ demands prompt obedience. We are to walk as he walked, following closely in his footsteps, manifesting his meekness and lowliness. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" "He that saith he abideth in him, ought himself also so to walk even as he walked." The service of Christ is pure and elevated. The path he traveled is not one of self-pleasing, self-gratification. He speaks to his children, saying, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." The price of heaven is submission to Christ. The way to heaven is obedience to the command, Deny thyself, take up thy cross, and follow me. As Jesus journeyed, so we must journey. The path he followed, we must follow; for that path leads to the mansions he is preparing for us." {RH, April 24, 1900 par. 9}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Quote:

There was not one trace of selfishness in the life of Christ.

That's what is required of all of us under law!

Now, let's read on:

"All who are laborers together with God will have the same spirit (attitude) as their Master had. They will be continually growing away from selfishness, and renouncing self-indulgence, even in things that had once appeared innocent to them. . . [LHU 325]

So we can't be under law because it requires "not one trace of selfishness". However, as we remain with Christ by faith we "will be continually growing away from selfishness."