Question about Sabbath

[OzarkWoman]

First off, let me explain what I believe, just my opinion of course.

Concerning the people who worship on Sundays; if they do it being ignorant of the true Sabbath then God will have Grace and forgiveness toward them. On the other hand, if people worship on Sundays after they have learned about the true Sabbtah, then they will be considered as breaking the 4th command ment and will be judged accordingly by God.

My question is...are there any scriptures in the Bible that people can use, and maybe do use, that supposedly says it is ok to have Sunday as the Sabbath? If so, what are they please?

[Robert]

Please read

[bonnie]

First off, let me explain what I believe, just my opinion of course.

Concerning the people who worship on Sundays; if they do it being ignorant of the true Sabbath then God will have Grace and forgiveness toward them. On the other hand, if people worship on Sundays after they have learned about the true Sabbtah, then they will be considered as breaking the 4th command ment and will be judged accordingly by God.

My question is...are there any scriptures in the Bible that people can use, and maybe do use, that supposedly says it is ok to have Sunday as the Sabbath? If so, what are they please?

Be careful of the suggested author. As you read keep in mind

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death

[BobRyan]

First off, let me explain what I believe, just my opinion of course.

Concerning the people who worship on Sundays; if they do it being ignorant of the true Sabbath then God will have Grace and forgiveness toward them.

Which is also true of those natives in remote areas that live their lives - naked, with multiple wives, eating any kind of meat they wish. (according to Paul in Romans 2)

That is also true of Catholics worshiping idols and praying to Mary and other dead people. For "to him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - to HIM it is sin" James 4.

But in 2Thess 2 God says that at the end of time "they perish who did not receive a LOVE of the truth". Those that run from the truth - fearing that they might learn of some teaching - inconvenient to their current life style and practices - have a problem according to Paul himself - in 2Thess 2.

in Christ,

Bob

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

First off, let me explain what I believe, just my opinion of course.

Concerning the people who worship on Sundays; if they do it being ignorant of the true Sabbath then God will have Grace and forgiveness toward them.

Which is also true of those natives in remote areas that live their lives - naked, with multiple wives, eating any kind of meat they wish. (according to Paul in Romans 2)

That is also true of Catholics worshiping idols and praying to Mary and other dead people. For "to him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - to HIM it is sin" James 4.

But in 2Thess 2 God says that at the end of time "they perish who did not receive a LOVE of the truth". Those that run from the truth - fearing that they might learn of some teaching - inconvenient to their current life style and practices - have a problem according to Paul himself - in 2Thess 2.

in Christ,

Bob

I agree!!!

[OzarkWoman]

Please read

Nice but didn't answer my question.

[BobRyan]

Please read

caveat emptor - whenever reading anything by Jack.

[Robert]

Let the buyer beware, funny.....

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Please read

Nice but didn't answer my question.

We are no longer under law. In the New Testament, under the NC, God writes in our hearts the principles of the last 6 commandments.

Faith (or love) in Christ replaces the first four.

Hence there's only one way to heaven - through Christ.

Therefore you shall have no other gospels - just the one.

And you should rest in Christ as a sign that God's work in Christ is finished. That will be the issue with the Mark of the Beast, which is future.

No one has the Mark of the Beast. Basically, the Sabbath is not yet a test of faith for the Christian.

Ellen White: "Sunday keeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this idol Sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet."

[OzarkWoman]

Robert, are you trying to say that the 10 commandments don't mean anything anymore? If you are, then you and I are in complete disagreement.

[Robert]

Robert, are you trying to say that the 10 commandments don't mean anything anymore? If you are, then you and I are in complete disagreement.

Look in the NT...anytime the commandments are mentioned it refers only to the last 6:

Matt 19:17 If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'

Gal 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

1 John 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

The list goes on and on....

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Robert, are you trying to say that the 10 commandments don't mean anything anymore? If you are, then you and I are in complete disagreement.

Look in the NT...anytime the commandments are mentioned it refers only to the last 6:

Matt 19:17 If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'

Gal 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

1 John 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

The list goes on and on....

Sorry, but I know the scriptures you cited but they do not follow the 10 commandments. You lose. Now, try again, only this time use something that really backs up what you say.

[Gibs]

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[OzarkWoman]

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Thank you Gibs. Just what I was needing.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

My question is...are there any scriptures in the Bible that people can use, and maybe do use, that supposedly says it is ok to have Sunday as the Sabbath? If so, what are they please?

Try Acts 15 and Acts 21:24-25. While these verses do not sanction Sunday; they do not sanction Sabbath, either. Don't try to tell me that the Gentiles already knew about the Sabbath. IMO Sunday worship was sanctioned in the early Catholic church as an incentive for pagans to become Christians, since most of them were already worshipping the sun on Sun-Day. Was it a compromise? Maybe. Will all those who were proponents of this compromise burn in hell-fire? Not my call.

In general, I agree with Robert and the article he posted. as EGW stated, the Sabbath is not yet and end-time testing truth. Nonetheless, who/what we worship will be an End-Time testing truth when the End comes; and the Sabbath could very well come into play at that time.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Please read

Nice but didn't answer my question.

[BobRyan]

Try Acts 15 and Acts 21:24-25. While these verses do not sanction Sunday; they do not sanction Sabbath, either.

Nor do they mention "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 nor do they mention "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18.

Nor do they list all the things James mentioned in James 2 or what Paul said in Eph 6:1-3.

Turns out - no NT statement sliced the Bible down to "5 verses in Acts 15" and I think we can all agree on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

I'm not trying to reduce the entire law to 5 verses. The lady asked for some verses sanctioning (or not sanctioning) the Sabbath; and I offered some.

[BobRyan]

I see - so Acts 15 sanctions the Sabbath because in the Christian church of the first century "Moses is read every Sabbath in the Synagogues"?? That is what you meant by your reference to Acts 15 and the Sabbath?

[John317]

In general, I agree with Robert and the article he posted. as EGW stated, the Sabbath is not yet and end-time testing truth. Nonetheless, who/what we worship will be an End-Time testing truth when the End comes; and the Sabbath could very well come into play at that time.

That isn't what Ellen White wrote. What she said is that people don't receive mark of the Beast until Sunday-keeping is enforced and all people everywhere must make up their minds between obedience to God or obedience to man.

The Sabbath is a test today and it shows whether people are willing to obey all of God's commandments. That's what the Third Angels Messages are all about-- which include the message for people to keep the Sabbath commandment, to "worship Him who made heaven and earth, and the sea, and the fountain of waters."

[John317]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Robert, are you trying to say that the 10 commandments don't mean anything anymore? If you are, then you and I are in complete disagreement.

Look in the NT...anytime the commandments are mentioned it refers only to the last 6:

According to that reasoning, Robert, believers in Christ don't need to obey the first four commands in the Decalogue, which concern our relationship with God. We can therefore worship other gods, make idols, use God's name in vain, etc. Is that right?

Evidently not, because it says in 1 John 5:21:

Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

Faith in Christ doesn't mean that believers are released from obedience to God's moral law summarized in the Ten Commandments.

If that were the case, Paul wouldn't have said what he did in 1 Cor. 6: 9-10:

Quote:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Every one of those behaviors are a violation of one of the Ten Commandments, and we see that their continued violation, without repentence, will lead to death and separation from God--- even if a person claims to have faith in Christ.

[Robert]

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

[Robert]

No such "just the last six commandments"

If the Sabbath of the moral law was written on the heart & mind folks would instinctively know that they should rest on the 7th-day of the week, but they don't.

Does the guy who has accepted Christ through nature (see Romans 1:20) start keeping the Sabbath? No! Does he know intuitively that murder, adultery and stealing are wrong? Yes....

So, God writes in the heart the principle of agape and therefore it is the last six commandments that are written in the heart. That's why Paul states, "the whole law" is "love your neighbor as yourself"!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Mt 5:17 ¶ [color:#FF0000]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The law here, refers to the Torah - the OT. Christ came to fulfill the OT.

Does Christ's fulfilling God's law mean that humans no longer need to obey God's law?

It definitely means people don't obey the law in order to be justfied or saved, but does Christ's obedience to God's Ten Comamndment law mean that God's people can disobey God's law with impunity?

That's what Satan would like for believers to think but it's false.

Paul said:

Romans 6:1-2

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? [2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 6:15

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

The real purpose of God's grace is so that His people will be enabled to obey the righteous requirements of the law:

Romans 8:3-4

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, [4] in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

[Robert]

According to that reasoning, Robert, believers in Christ don't need to obey the first four commands in the Decalogue, which concern our relationship with God. We can therefore worship other gods, make idols, use God's name in vain, etc. Is that right?

Technically speaking, no one will be saved by the law. Christ came to save us from the curse of the law. He did it by taking us into Himself and when He died, all died. So the law has been answered. We (our corporate humanity) died in Christ. Hence we are no longer under the jurisdiction of the law. No longer can it say, "obey & live - disobey & die".

Does that mean that believers can enjoy known sin as a lifestyle. No! The believers conscience will not give him/her peace, but neither does it mean they are living Christ's life that answers the whole law perfectly. All believers have sinned and are failing to live Christ's selfless life of service.... There's still self-love & self-seeking, but hopefully less.

In the New Testament believers have accepted Christ as their righteousness because there's no other way to satisfy the demands of the law. No one will make it to heaven any other way. This fulfills "you shall have no other God's before Me"

And, they are resting in Christ's finished work. They don't try to add to it through a works program. Their rest is 7 days a week, 24 hrs a day if you get my meaning.

This is faith in Christ. They are resting in what He did 2000 years ago and they are depending on His righteousness and therefore they have no other gods - no other methods to gain heaven.