Question about Sabbath

[Woody]

Quote:

You ask, "Who determines whether or not I am desacrating the Sabbath?"

You do JoeMo and I stated that it was your call. Most don't regard it highly enough for sure these days. It is kept by too many too loosely.

Just because they are not keeping the Sabbath tightly enough to meet your high standards does not mean they are keeping it too loosely. Just like you said, it is my call on how I keep the Sabbath. It is your call on how you keep the Sabbath. It is everyone else's call on how they keep the Sabbath. It is not for you or me to judge whether or not they are keeping it too loosely, to rigidly, or "just right".

Do not judge, lest ye be judged.

[JoeMo]

Thanks, Woody!

We all need to stand up and declare that Jesus is our judge; and that He has already judged us worthy of salvation by the fact that He paid the penalty for any shortcomings we may have when He willingly died the second death on our behalf. In response we say:

“You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Blessings to you; and Happy Thanksgiving,

JoeMo

[Woody]

Most excellent JoeMo. And just what we need to hear during this season.

[Gibs]

I guess JoeMo I see too much, and my statement is true. Many play ball and go to ball games and such. Do you believe that is Sabbath keeping? What do you think EGW would say about how people are doing on the Sabbath these days?

Here is one,

"Dear children, are you as careful as you should be in keeping the Sabbath? You have something to do besides laying aside your work and amusements on that day. If you, on that day, lay plans of what you will do when the Sabbath is past, or talk of your work, amusements and clothes, you pollute the Sabbath. The Prophet has in another chapter told us how to keep the Sabbath from polluting it, and nothing short of doing as he has pointed out will be keeping the Sabbath holy. He says: {YI, February 1, 1853 par. 2}

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, [that is, from treading it down, or breaking it,] from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words," &c. {YI, February 1, 1853 par. 3}

When you are speaking of your hope in God, of Jesus and of his soon coming, and of the beauties of the New Earth, you are not speaking your own words. Of these things you may freely speak on the Sabbath. On six days you may talk of business matters, and lay plans that are necessary; but the Sabbath is holy time, and all worldly thoughts must, on that day, be dismissed from the mind. The blessing of God will then rest upon you, and you will have the sweet consolations of his Spirit, and you will also have confidence when you approach the throne of grace."

E. G. W. {YI, February 1, 1853 par. 4}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Thanks for the quotes and encouragement, Gibs. You have a gift for finding dark clouds in the silver lining.

Like we both said (at least I thought we both said it) it is not for us to judge.

[CoAspen]

I'm with you!The sabbath is to be a delight! Walk, hike, ride, enjoying nature, enjoying your gkids at the zoo or even a museum, visiting with friends, napping, reading, etc, etc,etc......tis also a day of rest from all our worries and these other things that we do assist in that.

Ya, I remember the days of 'sabbath observance fear', wasn't much of a delight! If we aren't finding or seeing God all around us, every day, in what ever we do, ain't going to happen on any particular day of the week either! Yep, sabbath is a special day to get away from all our work and worry and that means spiritual work and worry also!!!!

[M. T. Cross]

The thing I remember most about the Sabbath is there was a lot discussion about what was allowed and what was not. If things were allowed they were only allowed in a certain context. I hated the Sabbath more than anything else in the world. Day of rest? Not likely! It was a day of 24 hours of boredom, nagging and debate about the day itself.

I think holy days should involve celebration of the day, mixed with some quiet contemplation and some time spent getting to know your deity a little bit better. I think a great number of SDA's really miss out on the celebration part.

[BobRyan]

Bob,

You state:

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

As the chapter progressed - Paul dealt with all men - Jew and Gentile contrasting the ceremonial law (that did not matter) with the moral law of God "the Commandments of God" that DO matter.

Addressing the ceremonial law (which didn't matter?)first, God said in Genesis 17:10-14 -

Quote:

This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

This was before the 10 commandments. How can it be called ceremonial? It appears Paul is advising people to IGNORE God's everlasting covenant? How dare he!

Your response ignores what Paul says about circumcision being ceremonial both in 1Cor 7 and in Romans 2.

Romans 2

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

(At this point your entire argument about circumcision not being symbolic and ceremonial has fallen apart)

29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

This is why Paul and argue in 1Cor 7

17 Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches.

18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

A perfect contrast between ceremonial law - and moral law.

impossible to miss.

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

Hey MT,

Nice to hear from you.

Yeah; I remember those days, too! I "quit" church for a long time because what was supposed to be a joy was a total drag. I'm so glad I was finally shown something different! Now Saturday is a great day. We just thoroughly enjoy family and friends all day long. We play together "pray" together (more like party with God), hang out, and ignore the secular "world".

[JoeMo]

Hey CoAspen,

Isn't it great to just kick back - maybe go to the mountains, maybe go to the Museum of Science and Nature or the Zoo, maybe take a long nap. I like kickin' back with my guitar or my keyboard, too - just doing stuff I don't to the rest of the week. I love Saturdays!

[JoeMo]

Bob, you (and Paul)say:

Quote:

Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

A perfect contrast between ceremonial law - and moral law.

impossible to miss.

It may be impossible to miss in this particular verse. Here's a couple other things that are impossible to miss:

Quote:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph. 2: 8-9)

Quote:

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? (Gal. 3:2-5)

These verses seem to say that we are saved by grace and faith, not by works (commandment keeping). Is Paul contradicting himself, or is he telling us that the power to keep God's commands is the RESULT of our salvation by grace; not that commandment keeping is the PREREQUISITE for our salvation?

Impossible to miss!

[JoeMo]

I like the verses you quoted out of Colossians; but I don't understand your explanation of them. ???

[BobRyan]

Bob, you (and Paul)say:

Quote:

Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

A perfect contrast between ceremonial law - and moral law.

impossible to miss.

It may be impossible to miss in this particular verse.

[BobRyan]

Here's a couple other things that are impossible to miss:

Quote:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph. 2: 8-9)

Quote:

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? (Gal. 3:2-5)

These verses seem to say that we are saved by grace and faith, not by works (commandment keeping).

[Robert]

what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Bob - the commands about marriage....stop taking this out of context~!

[BobRyan]

you have yet to show your claim holds up when we actually read the chapter of 1Cor 7.

Given that fact - why keep insisting that you have made the case for it??

Who is going for that?

[BobRyan]

The fact that Paul speaks to the subject of Marriage in vs 1-7 does not allow us freedom to delete all remaining details in the chapter "as if" marriage is the only part of the chapter that is of interest to us.

Obviously "the details" of vs 17-19 go far beyond the narrow scope of marriage.

Quote:

1Cor 7

17 Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.

Here Paul obviously speaks to ALL gentile and Jewish Christian regardless of marriage status - and deals specifically with ONE aspect of the ceremonial law that signified all other aspects of the ceremonial law according to Eph 2.

Quote:

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

20 Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.

21 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that. 22 For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.

25 Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy.

As the chapter progressed - Paul dealt with all men - Jew and Gentile contrasting the ceremonial law (that did not matter) with the moral law of God "the Commandments of God" that DO matter.

he also contrasted slavery with being free.

And Paul also dealt with the unmarried within the church.

Trying bend or wrench all these topics into "nothing more than advice to the married person" is to ignore half the chapter. here again is another common point where I think we can all agree.

in Christ,

Bob

[12tribes]

The 7th day was blessed at the creation of this earth, no other day was blessed. There is no text in all the Bible stating God has removed that blessing or blessed any other day. This shows the importance of the Sabbath of the Lord has not changed.

[BobRyan]