Homosexuality - a moral issue?

[Twilight II]

Is homosexuality a "moral" issue?

Is it "immoral" to practice homosexuality?

Does God define it as a "moral issue" in the scripture?

[BobRyan]

Is homosexuality a "moral" issue?

Is it "immoral" to practice homosexuality?

Does God define it as a "moral issue" in the scripture?

In Lev 18, 1Cor 6 and in Romans 1 it is declared to be a moral issue.

And Peter states this same thing about those in Sodom.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Yes he does. But it also says to "hate the sin, but love the sinner." Having said that, we should not condone that lifestyle.

[Gerr]

Therein lies the rub - it's a moral issue AND ALSO a civil rights issue.

[M. T. Cross]

Is homosexuality a "moral" issue?

Is it "immoral" to practice homosexuality?

Does God define it as a "moral issue" in the scripture?

I guess that can be argued, but what can't be argued is that it is a Club Adventist obsession. I worry about people that worry so much about where people put their private bits.......

[Twilight II]

Therein lies the rub - it's a moral issue AND ALSO a civil rights issue.

Indeed.

Which is really a question of authority of morality.

Is Gods definition of morality a Christians rule?

Or is societies definition of morality a Christians rule?

[Twilight II]

There is a movement in society to impose humanistic ideologies of morality on Christians.

And many Christians fail to see this.

But just because society tells us an act is moral, does not make it so...

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

Is homosexuality a "moral" issue?

Is it "immoral" to practice homosexuality?

Does God define it as a "moral issue" in the scripture?

I guess that can be argued, but what can't be argued is that it is a Club Adventist obsession. I worry about people that worry so much about where people put their private bits.......

If it is a question of subjective morality as defined by society, then yes, it does not matter what one does with their body.

But if it is a question of objective morality as defined by God, then it does indeed matter that we understand the objective nature of Gods morality.

[Bravus]

Coveting - a moral issue?

[BobRyan]

Coveting a moral issue - yes.

Yet - coveting not found in Lev 18 and Romans 1 and 1Cor 6. Not on the list of things that God says he will wipe out even pagan nations for doing.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

There is a movement in society to impose humanistic ideologies of morality on Christians.

And many Christians fail to see this.

But just because society tells us an act is moral, does not make it so...

That is true and we are free to legislate aspects of Christian moral values that do not deal with the subject of worship or the "thought police".

in Christ,

Bob

[doug yowell]

Therein lies the rub - it's a moral issue AND ALSO a civil rights issue.

It's only a civil rights issue if one can convince others that it is. In order to make that case it is necessary to create "rights" from some amoral source and then sway public sentiment to believe that homosexual(or any other)behavior is not harmful to society (the right to drink alcohol has gone pretty well,huh?). If one can succesfully eliminate the input into the discussion of any religiously based morality then anything that an atheistic society can agree on can be determined to be a "civil right".If unrestricted personal sexual freedom can be defined as a civil right then any unrestricted sexual behavior must be allowed.

[doug yowell]

but what can't be argued is that it is a Club Adventist obsession.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

but what can't be argued is that it is a Club Adventist obsession.

Nor can it be argued that it is not a left wing political obsession. One which fills the halls of the public sector daily. One that is consistently pressuring Adventism to redefine it's Biblical worldview

Quote:

I worry about people that worry so much about where people put their private bits.......

I doubt it. My guess is that you have some concerns about the spread of aids,SD's, and child pornography. I'd be willing to believe that you would have some reservations/worries about legalizing polygamy, incest, and beastiality.

You are right Doug. I thought that by now I would not have to add the disclaimer. I worry about people that worry about where consenting adults put their private bits. As far as polygamy.......... anyone that thinks marriage is easy enough that they want to have multiple spouses has much greater problems than where they are putting their bits

[Twilight II]

Coveting - a moral issue?

Yes, coveting is a moral issue.

But I don't see the governments of the world legislating that coveting is a required aspect of daily life...

[M. T. Cross]

Coveting - a moral issue?

Or sex outside of marriage

cheating in business

selfishness

gossip

judging

lying

child abuse

spousal abuse

These are all things that I guarantee you will find within the SDA church as well. Why does homosexuality take precedence over these

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Coveting - a moral issue?

Or sex outside of marriage

cheating in business

selfishness

gossip

judging

lying

child abuse

spousal abuse

These are all things that I guarantee you will find within the SDA church as well. Why does homosexuality take precedence over these

Who said homosexuality takes precedence?

The point being made is that we have a set of secular morals being forced on Christians that hold Gods moral position by society.

Society is not forcing anyone to steal or commit adultery.

But it is trying to force people to change their moral position.

Government, secular government is decreeing morality and saying it has a higher authority than God on the homosexuality issue.

Christians then take the governments side over God, often unwittingly, because they have been convinced it is immoral to speak out against the homosexual act...

Adopting secular ideologies and thinking they are acting in a "Christian" way by doing so...

[M. T. Cross]

First of all, nothing in the original post of this thread say's ANYTHING at all about it being a U.S. based political issue.

Quote:

Who said homosexuality takes precedence?

I say it seems to. If you look around these boards you will find the matter of homosexuality discussed at least twice as much as any of these other subjects.

Quote:

The point being made is that we have a set of secular morals being forced on Christians that hold Gods moral position by society.

Much like Christians have forced their morals on everyone else for years. All that is being said is that religious morals belong to the religion they stem from. In a society that encompasses many different religions, one religions morals should not be the legally defining standard.

Quote:

Society is not forcing anyone to steal or commit adultery.

Nor is it forcing you to be a homosexual

Quote:

But it is trying to force people to change their moral position.

No - it is telling you that legally speaking you can not force others to take your moral position

Quote:

Government, secular government is decreeing morality and saying it has a higher authority than God on the homosexuality issue.

No - it is simply not forcing the moral values of one religious portion of its citizenry on the whole nation.

Quote:

Christians then take the governments side over God, often unwittingly, because they have been convinced it is immoral to speak out against the homosexual act...

Adopting secular ideologies and thinking they are acting in a "Christian" way by doing so...

Thats not the governments fault, it is the fault of the individual.

[Twilight II]

First of all, nothing in the original post of this thread say's ANYTHING at all about it being a U.S. based political issue.

Quote:

Who said homosexuality takes precedence?

I say it seems to. If you look around these boards you will find the matter of homosexuality discussed at least twice as much as any of these other subjects.

Quote:

The point being made is that we have a set of secular morals being forced on Christians that hold Gods moral position by society.

Much like Christians have forced their morals on everyone else for years. All that is being said is that religious morals belong to the religion they stem from. In a society that encompasses many different religions, one religions morals should not be the legally defining standard.

Quote:

Society is not forcing anyone to steal or commit adultery.

Nor is it forcing you to be a homosexual

Quote:

But it is trying to force people to change their moral position.

No - it is telling you that legally speaking you can not force others to take your moral position

Quote:

Government, secular government is decreeing morality and saying it has a higher authority than God on the homosexuality issue.

No - it is simply not forcing the moral values of one religious portion of its citizenry on the whole nation.

Quote:

Christians then take the governments side over God, often unwittingly, because they have been convinced it is immoral to speak out against the homosexual act...

Adopting secular ideologies and thinking they are acting in a "Christian" way by doing so...

Thats not the governments fault, it is the fault of the individual.

Essentially, what you are arguing is the position of moral relativity.

That there are no absolute standards of morality.

Which of course is not Gods position.

God decrees absolute morality.

Secular society is trying to replace that with subjective morality.

The morality that God decreed is being eroded by the morality that secular society decrees.

The problem with subjective moral positions is that there is never any real reason to adopt them.

So those that want to promote subjective morality over objective morality, are really removing all objective morality and replacing it with opinions of what morality should and should not be.

And that is a long slippery slope...

[Twilight II]

Quote:

Government, secular government is decreeing morality and saying it has a higher authority than God on the homosexuality issue.

No - it is simply not forcing the moral values of one religious portion of its citizenry on the whole nation.

I cannot speak for what is happening in the US, but in Europe, it is illegal in many instances to refuse homosexual acts being practiced on an individuals business premises.

There have also been cases of Pastors imprisoned, as memory serves, for speaking out against homosexuality.

So yes, people are being forced to change their moral positions on this issue.

[M. T. Cross]

I agree it is a slippery slope within a church. But the government should not and can not cater to a church. It needs to balance out the stance of its society as a whole.

[Tom Wetmore]

Much like Christians have forced their morals on everyone else for years. All that is being said is that religious morals belong to the religion they stem from. In a society that encompasses many different religions, one religions morals should not be the legally defining standard.

Essentially, what you are arguing is the position of moral relativity.

That there are no absolute standards of morality.

Which of course is not Gods position.

God decrees absolute morality.

Secular society is trying to replace that with subjective morality.

The morality that God decreed is being eroded by the morality that secular society decrees.

The problem with subjective moral positions is that there is never any real reason to adopt them.

So those that want to promote subjective morality over objective morality, are really removing all objective morality and replacing it with opinions of what morality should and should not be.

And that is a long slippery slope...

No. What he is saying is that government is not and should not be the moral authority.

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

Much like Christians have forced their morals on everyone else for years. All that is being said is that religious morals belong to the religion they stem from. In a society that encompasses many different religions, one religions morals should not be the legally defining standard.

Essentially, what you are arguing is the position of moral relativity.

That there are no absolute standards of morality.

Which of course is not Gods position.

God decrees absolute morality.

Secular society is trying to replace that with subjective morality.

The morality that God decreed is being eroded by the morality that secular society decrees.

The problem with subjective moral positions is that there is never any real reason to adopt them.

So those that want to promote subjective morality over objective morality, are really removing all objective morality and replacing it with opinions of what morality should and should not be.

And that is a long slippery slope...

No. What he is saying is that government is not and should not be the moral authority.

That does not make much sense.

All governments assume the moral authority to produce the absolute laws of morality in the land.

Don't they?

[Twilight II]

I agree it is a slippery slope within a church. But the government should not and can not cater to a church. It needs to balance out the stance of its society as a whole.

But a government should cater to a section of secular society instead?

How is that any different?

:-)

[Tom Wetmore]

No. The are the civil authority. The combining of religious/moral authority with governmental/civil authority to enforce morality by the force and power of that governmental/civil authority is the mark of the beast. One does not have to look very far to see evidence of what happens when religious ideology of any sort is enforced by force of civil authority.