WHY does anyone NEED an ASSAULT RIFLE?

[doug yowell]

You must have misunderstood what I meant, we are on the same team as far as I can tell.

GoChiefs?

[Neil D]

All I said is that it is none of your business who owns what or not. If you believe it is your business then you are no better than an o,ld biddy who puts herself into everyone's business. But, it does take all kinds in our country, thankfully. Of course I believe in the constitution.

Well, I want to know who has an assault weapon. especially when they get mad at the neighbors dog for taking a dump on their lawn for the ump-teenth time...I want to know who has a vicious temper and who is out to kill because of some turf war that I wondered into...

And speaking of the Constitution, why are you so legalistic about the 2nd amendment to it. Can you quote it without cut and pasting it on to the bbs? Do you know the history of why we have that amendment or are you listening to the NRA, a lobbyist to the gun manufacturers, whose primary job is to get keep demand for guns growing...

The rhetorical question is rather rhetorical, isn't it? We don't need assault rifles, not for hunting, not for pleasure, not for protection..

[Well now...that should get a few people to open thier can of worms....]

[Guest]

Eating by the OT standards does not make you a better person. I disagree with you and even my pastor agrees that what anyone eats or doesn't eat is not going to keep anyone in or out of Heaven.

Do you believe that what God said in the old testament concerning what He would do at the very end of time, has somehow changed, since we now have the new testament?

Consider this:

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. Isa 66:15-17

It looks to me like it will still matter at the end of time. Why else would He mention it? But if it doesn't matter what we put into our bodies by way of food, then by extension, it also doesn't matter what we put into our bodies by way of smoking, or drinking, or drug use.

Some people, by misapplying Scripture, have suggested that the health laws from our Creator were only for the Jews, though Gentile bodies are really no different! Paul's counsels on health were to the Gentiles ( 1 Cor. 6:10, 19, 20; 10:31).

And do we not consider ourselves to be the modern day Israel, according to Rom 2:28,29 and 9:4-7?

[Guest]

Do you know the history of why we have that amendment

Do you? ....Obviously NOT! Otherwise you wouldn't be posting this nonsense. It wasn't for hunting, it wasn't for pleasure shooting, it wasn't even for personal protection.

The tiniest bit of research BEFORE shooting off your mouth, would keep you from showing so much ignorance. When and IF you do find the real reason, you will see why the constitution guaranties us the right to bear what you call "Assault Rifles".

[M. T. Cross]

I grew up around guns. We shot a lot of gophers on our farms and from a young age I understood what guns did. They killed stuff. To this day I think that its fine for people to own guns for hunting and I don't see the problem with responsible people owning them. I am not really sure why people need to own semi and fully automatic guns, but some are just collectors as well. I come at this from the Canadian perspective however, and one has to jump through a lot of hoops to own a gun and purchase ammo up here. But the end result is that there are more checks in place to keep unstable folks from owning them.

Its really a tough subject. I mean really, if I want you dead I don't need a gun by any means. It just makes it quicker. That said I think there maybe needs to be a bit more background checking in the States to try and keep guns out of the hands of psychos. Gun control is not gun banning.

[olger]

In terms of farm life, its hard to feel too sorry for crop eating pests and makers of hazardous holes for livestock to step in and break a leg.

ole' !!

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

I NEED ONE FOR GROUNDHOGS !!!

Sniper rifle works better on groundhogs. I say that based on the account as told by my father of a hunter (former military sniper) visiting our farm to hunt woodchucks. One shot at just under half a mile, clean heart shot, as targeted, of woodchuck standing up to have a look around.

True Tom. I have a 22-.250 with 6-24x target scope and teardrop thumbhole with laminated stock. That can reach out pretty far, but I admit defeat at a half-mile. 3-400 yards is max for me. One hog can eat off a half acre of beans and undermine foundations.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

I NEED ONE FOR GROUNDHOGS !!!

Either they're really hard to kill or there's too many coming at ya!! A bazooka might work better.

It's self-defense, I promise !!

[Tom Wetmore]

It's self-defense, I promise !!

Well those buggers will put up a fight if you get between them and their hole. Voice of experience... Of course the strangest woodchuck was the one I saw climbing up a tree to get away.

[phkrause]

Do you believe that what God said in the old testament concerning what He would do at the very end of time, has somehow changed, since we now have the new testament?

Consider this:

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. Isa 66:15-17

It looks to me like it will still matter at the end of time. Why else would He mention it? But if it doesn't matter what we put into our bodies by way of food, then by extension, it also doesn't matter what we put into our bodies by way of smoking, or drinking, or drug use.

Some people, by misapplying Scripture, have suggested that the health laws from our Creator were only for the Jews, though Gentile bodies are really no different! Paul's counsels on health were to the Gentiles ( 1 Cor. 6:10, 19, 20; 10:31).

And do we not consider ourselves to be the modern day Israel, according to Rom 2:28,29 and 9:4-7?

[phkrause]

I grew up around guns. We shot a lot of gophers on our farms and from a young age I understood what guns did. They killed stuff. To this day I think that its fine for people to own guns for hunting and I don't see the problem with responsible people owning them. I am not really sure why people need to own semi and fully automatic guns, but some are just collectors as well. I come at this from the Canadian perspective however, and one has to jump through a lot of hoops to own a gun and purchase ammo up here. But the end result is that there are more checks in place to keep unstable folks from owning them.

Its really a tough subject. I mean really, if I want you dead I don't need a gun by any means. It just makes it quicker. That said I think there maybe needs to be a bit more background checking in the States to try and keep guns out of the hands of psychos. Gun control is not gun banning.

[Neil D]

The tiniest bit of research BEFORE shooting off your mouth, would keep you from showing so much ignorance. When and IF you do find the real reason, you will see why the constitution guaranties us the right to bear what you call "Assault Rifles".

I would like to hear your explanation as to what you mean and what YOU think I am saying....

When you say "why the constitution guaranties us the right to bear what you call "Assault Rifles".", I would like to know what you mean? What do you consider an "Assault Rifle"?

And when you say "us", is the "us" regarding the "well regulated militia" ? And if so, just what is meant by "well regulated"? and what is meant by "Militia"? do you consider yourself a 'militia of one'? If so, how can you be considered "well regulated"? Doesn't "well regulated" mean rules or regulation regarding those firearms/militias as to when where how they operate?

You challenged me, Richard, rather rudely, I might add...I have answered that challenge...What is your response reply to "Why does anyone NEED an ASSAULT RIFLE?"

[doug yowell]

Of course the strangest woodchuck was the one I saw climbing up a tree to get away.

Well, he is a WOODchuck.

[Guest]

It was written to guard against gov't tyranny.

[Guest]

I'll have to explain about the assault rifles tomorrow. I've had computer problems today, and it took all my time.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

Of course the strangest woodchuck was the one I saw climbing up a tree to get away.

Well, he is a WOODchuck.

[Neil D]

How can an individual be concidered to be a "well regulated militia"? The 2nd amendment never was intended to extend to the individual...An individual is not a militia and nether is he "well regulated"...otherwise, he'd have bazookas and tanks at his disposal curtious of the US government.

And your NRA is a lobbyist group, designed for gun manufacture and to keep the sales of guns going..Their primary goal is to promote the sale of gun and to not limit the manufacture of guns.

They do this by promoting the myth that the government sole purpose is to control the individual...

[debbym]

the constitutional debate goes like this....

Government could not be utterly trusted to not potentially turn against the interest of the people, so the people had the right to remain armed, in case the government needed to be overturned.

so the three branches of government keep each other in check, and if that failed the people would be able by force of arms to put a check on the government

"Tench Coxe, writing as "the Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, 1788: "The power of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for the powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from 16 to 60. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

"Thomas Jefferson: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

George Washington's address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour."

http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/articles/guns.html

this is deeply entrenched in our history and culture. The battle to change this and attempt to remove automatic and assault weapons from our country is no small task. i see no use for assault weapons in the general populace.

and a quote from Ghandi, "“Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” – Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.

deb

[Tom Wetmore]

It was written to guard against gov't tyranny.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The phrase, "being necessary to the security of a free State" has to be ignored to reach that conclusion. To provide for the security of a free State (be it individual states or the United States) it is necessary to have a well regulated militia. In order to have a "well regulated militia" it is essential that the militia be equipped and trained. The phrase "keep and bear arms" is a distinct military term for the process, training and facility for equipping and bearing those arms (arms is more than guns and ammo). And all of this is to be in the responsibility of the people that cannot be impeded. Recognizing that "the people" is a distinct and fundamental aspect of our system of governance - a government of the people, for the people and by the people. That means, among other things, we do not have a government ruling over us as a king. But it also means that our entire military is distinctly under civilian control. The people maintain the right and responsibility to regulate well the militia through equipping and training in order to assure the security of the state.

[OzarkWoman]

Same old....same old!!!! Gotta laugh at the same old rhetoric from everyone and anyone about guns. We are a smidgen away from being under tyranny anyway, but of course the libs don't care. They just have no idea that it will be just as bad for them as it is for anyone else, except of course, the elite. I have watched many of our freedoms and rights go right out the door over the last few decades and I am sick of it. If the libs don't like guns then don't have one but they should just shut up about our right to own them. Maybe they should all move to NY where they can only drink 16-oz or smaller sweet drinks.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Same old....same old!!!! Gotta laugh at the same old rhetoric from everyone and anyone about guns. We are a smidgen away from being under tyranny anyway, but of course the libs don't care. They just have no idea that it will be just as bad for them as it is for anyone else, except of course, the elite. I have watched many of our freedoms and rights go right out the door over the last few decades and I am sick of it. If the libs don't like guns then don't have one but they should just shut up about our right to own them. Maybe they should all move to NY where they can only drink 16-oz or smaller sweet drinks.

"same ol' same ol"? ARe we changing the constitution??? I am sorry, but the ends DO NOT justify the means....

If you don't live by the law of the land, then you are either a criminal or a terrorist and no friend of the country that you live in! How unpatriotic! How subversive! How elitist to favor gun owners to promote chaos and tyranny for a few who have weapons! Brings to mind the movies of Mad Max post apocalyptic US.....

And you say that we are about to be taken over by the goverment? Where is your evidence? There are no work camps, as the ones that Germany did for the jews, nor Ghettos in which some class of citizens are walled off.. What freedoms are being "taken away" and are removed from the Bill of Rights? Where are your fading freedoms that do not infringe upon the underclassed citizens?

And you have the gall to say "If the libs don't like guns then don't have one but they should just shut up about our right to own them." ....Your "right" to have guns, infringes upon my right to live." Because you insist on having guns in our society, we have gettos of racial gangs with guns waging turf wars...And you say that it ain't the guns that kill people!!! I have leaders with poor hunting skills shooting fellow republicans with buck shot. I have people who kill thier spouses because they haven't taken a gun course in 20 years...I have people who have just gone thru gun courses who can not respond to a sudden threat of a gun being shot in thier vicinity.....And yet, you gun owners claim that you can take out bad guys without a problem! foolish people,...Even the experts, the police talk about loosing thier skills if they don't practice with scenerios in less than 2 months.....The physiologic reaction of the human is designed to RUN....

Conclusion: you guys deny the obvious, swell your pride in the ability to take out "bad guys"...what false pride! What foolishness....

[Guest]

No Tom, it doesn't protect the right of the militia to bear arms, it specifically protects the right of the "people". And for good reason. These people had just escaped from tyranny, and they knew what it would take to stop it from happening again.

Consider this:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, (COMMA)

(That was a statement of fact. Ok we have to have a militia, that's a given. And due to that fact....

the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

It creates a balance, between the militia and the people. Because there is a militia, the people will also be allowed to keep arms.

But even if you don't want to believe that, notice that it doesn't grant the militia anything. Only "the people" are the object of this whole ammendment. And the only ones granted anything.

[phkrause]

Same old....same old!!!! Gotta laugh at the same old rhetoric from everyone and anyone about guns. We are a smidgen away from being under tyranny anyway, but of course the libs don't care. They just have no idea that it will be just as bad for them as it is for anyone else, except of course, the elite. I have watched many of our freedoms and rights go right out the door over the last few decades and I am sick of it. If the libs don't like guns then don't have one but they should just shut up about our right to own them. Maybe they should all move to NY where they can only drink 16-oz or smaller sweet drinks.

Just curious as to what government tyranny we are talking about?? The one where the government will be forcing us to go against the 4th Commandment? So I'm guessing that Jesus has told us to pickup our weapons and defend ourselves against this? I'm pretty sure he didn't have that in mind.

[OzarkWoman]

I love God first but I also love my country second and I would be willing to lay my life down by fighting for the constituion of my country. It may not be what GHod wanted but he also said to follow man's law as long as it didn't go against God. The commandment is "Thous Shalt Not Murder" not Thous shalt not kill. There is a huge difference in the meaning.

[Guest]

That's true..