Ted Oplinger Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Originally Posted By: RLH It was written to guard against gov't tyranny. Why? What historical president is quoted? We [the weak colonies] just got thru beating the then world's greatest army into submission into letting us have our freedom.... ....and then, we make this 2nd amendment to guard against...whom...US??? Where are our priorities at that time? Against government or for creating the best possible freedom loving government that we can provide? Doesn't that context have influence to our understanding of the Second Amendment??? Rebuttal? Reading the Founding Father's views on the subject is quite educational, Neil. Whether it is Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Hamilton, Washington, or Adams - all were quite united on this subject. The tools of the soldier's trade - the sword, the rifle, the pistol, and the cannon - were not to be denied to the able-bodied men making up the militia. The militia's purpose was to defend against all threats, foreign and domestic. All of the Founding Fathers wrote extensively for the need of the people to hold in check the government by four boxes: Soap Box - the First Amendment, with the rights to protected political speech, dissent, and petition; if that fails, then Ballot Box - Vote the rascals out; if that fails, then Jury Box - Jury nullification, in refusing to convict people due to unconstitutional laws and/or government actions. Last resort: the Ammo Box, to re-institute government such as they see will recognize their God-given rights once more. The Founding Fathers equated a strong central government - particularly the executive branch - as well as a standing army/police force (at the executive call) - as greater threats to our nation than any potential foreign invasion. It is specifically stated in our Declaration of Independence that the Founding Fathers deemed government to be the supreme shepherd in recognizing and defending the God-given rights of the common man. They also wrote that when government ceases to recognize those rights, and instead works to devalue and denigrate the common man, then people not only have the right, they have the moral duty to rise up, bearing arms as necessary, and re-institute government so to correct that. In the language of the day, writings for the Second Amendment - and its counterparts in every state constitution - all depict that arms- the equipment of the soldier - were necessary for the people to be able to protect themselves from their government as well as the criminal and foreign invader, should the need arise. The thought of keeping them around merely for sports and hunting was not even a serious consideration. Even more, Neil, they feared a break-down of the 3 branch system through political parties. One party rule was just as anathema to them as the thought of a king or dictator. Think today's situation is any different than what the Founding Fathers fears were? Our time and their's have much more in common, in the matter of danger to the individuality and populace of the common man, than you think. It has been that way for decades, Neil. Reagan was the only president since JFK to give us a government the common masses were not fearful of. Every other president - of BOTH parties - has worked to destroy the common man, up to and including our current president. Think long and hard on that. In a nut shell, I would that my government be more afraid of what I should do to it, than I should be of what my government to me. Honest and right government need not fear its people, and people do not fear honest and right government. We do not have honest and right government today. I do not foresee it appearing again until the day I see it in Christ's Kingdom. Blessings Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Kountzer Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I get the impression you are associated with Texas A&M U. some kind of way. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I don't know how Ted knew exactly what I was going to say, before I said it. Oh well, there it is. :) Quote
BelizeMissionary Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Reading the Founding Father's views on the subject is quite educational, Neil. Whether it is Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Hamilton, Washington, or Adams - all were quite united on this subject. The tools of the soldier's trade - the sword, the rifle, the pistol, and the cannon - were not to be denied to the able-bodied men making up the militia. The militia's purpose was to defend against all threats, foreign and domestic. Thank God the founding fathers were smart enough to realize that the government of the free nation that they were working so hard to form could end up being just as tyrannical as the super power they had defeated. Thank God that they weren't so closed minded and tyrannical as the gun control nuts of today. Quote
GoLions Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 I see the whole matter this way. Choose your poison, if you don't want people to own guns...for protection. Then only criminals and the government will own the guns. I have seen in the news here in America that the police aren't responding to certain 911 calls due to budget cuts. That is a bad situation if you don't own a gun or the possibility of having one. Officers of the law are not necessarily upright citizens. There are some vary bad people hiding behind a badge. History is plenty full of examples of governments turning on their own, much easier to do if the citizens are unarmed. (doesn't mean they wont try even if you are armed.) On the other hand, do you want all these uneducated, crazy, gang led, demon possessed, mobs and mobsters having guns? Shooting up Churches, schools, malls and theaters? Seems like we have the worst of both worlds right now. Choose your poison, either way, you, your family or your friends, sooner or later will pay an awful price for OUR decision. Quote
GoLions Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Gen. McChrystal: Assault rifles are for battlefields, not schools Former Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who led the war in Afghanistan, endorsed strong gun control laws Tuesday on Morning Joe. “I spent a career carrying typically either an M16 or an M4 Carbine. An M4 Carbine fires a .223 caliber round which is 5.56 mm at about 3000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It’s designed for that,” McChrystal explained. “That’s what our soldiers ought to carry. I personally don’t think there’s any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America.” This man is in the business of killing people, he has made a career of it, of course he wants to be the only one to have these guns. By the way, where are the battlefields today? are they not at schools? Quote
olger Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Gen. McChrystal: Assault rifles are for battlefields, not schools Former Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who led the war in Afghanistan, endorsed strong gun control laws Tuesday on Morning Joe. “I spent a career carrying typically either an M16 or an M4 Carbine. An M4 Carbine fires a .223 caliber round which is 5.56 mm at about 3000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It’s designed for that,” McChrystal explained. “That’s what our soldiers ought to carry. I personally don’t think there’s any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America.” Hey. You agree with Stan for....like the first time ever. That's great! Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
M. T. Cross Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Why can't we all just through tomatoes at each other... Quote
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