Mark of the Beast - what is it? For non-SDA?

[Gibs]

I guess one can take a pick of which he will receive of three ways,

Re 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Would it make any difference to have the Mark, the name, Satan, or his number, 666. It just would mean that you have chosen him over the Great Creator.

OK, if faith and obedience in and to Christ is the bottom line the proof would be in "the pudding." You would be wholly His and your desire would be of course to please Him.

So the line in the sand becomes which one, one loves most is the one chosen to obey.

It is only when we truly Love God will we or could we ever really keep them. Love is the fulfilling of the Law of Love.

Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

One could claim to love God with all the heart and soul and not keep one of the first four of the great commandment of love and would be found guilty of all. The great commandment of love takes in all ten of the Decalogue.

Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Many of the Jews hold to keeping Sabbath by the letter but is it kept in heart is the question. The same can go for SDA's or anyone who claims to as now there is many other than Adventists and Gentiles who now hold to the Holy Sabbath that won't be SDA's.

The mark, name or number can be had by any on earth not truly and fully Yahweh's by obedience of Love and the faith of Jesus. Re 14:12 above.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Arwen]

Anything that anyone DOES is a consequence of WHO HE IS.

The outward act is secondary to who someone is.

The seal of God is a holy character.

The mark of the beast is an altogether unrighteous character.

When the great polarization comes, that which divides will do so according to character.

Whatever outward acts the evil do, it will be because they are evil. Whatever outward acts the holy do, they do because they are holy.

Sure, holy folks will Sabbath-keep, discerning God's will.

But, that truth is secondary to something much bigger.

The remnant reflect the character of Christ while the lost, the character of Satan.

Blessings,

Tony

Interesting thoughts.

[o2bwise]

Ted,

When I wrote:

Quote:

I find your writing to often be inappropriate, including exercising the province that is God's alone.

I was referring to something quite other than what you state I did when you quoted me telling you that you bore false witness (not intentionally).

Quote:

Ted:

Pot, meet kettle....

The above is untrue.

When I said you bore false witness, I stuck to the outward act. I did not assign motive. I did not veer into the affairs of your heart.

Note that I even wrote unintentionally.

The fact is you did bear false witness. No way Raul Hilberg would acquiesce on the assertion the Nazis had ZERO documentation of carrying out some holocaust unless it were true.

Even if I were wrong in my assertion, the main point is that I am NOT veering into thinking to know another person’s heart.

In the Trinity discussion, someone told me God needed a mother in order for Him to literally beget a Son. I told the person that was idolatrous. Strong words, but a fact. Regardless, if the words were untrue, the fact is I observed an outward act and did not get into the poster’s heart.

Quote:

Ted:

and several bristling responses from you

bristling - to become rigid with anger or irritation: The man bristled when I asked him to move.

That veers into thinking to know the heart.

Quote:

Ted:

but it does appear you're just as caught up in the "antagonist/protagonist" thing of arguing for argument's sake - just as some of the Trinitarian posters are.

Do you REALLY think you're going to solve that issue on this thread? An issue which has roiled the Christological study for 1600+ years now? I think not.

As for me, I will not be so vain as to think I have this totally figured out.

…

Actually, Tony, if you think you've got it all figured out after 1600+ yrs of hot debate on the point, kudos to you.

The deduction is clear. I must be vain. And it “appears” to you I am caught up in being antagonistic.

Quote:

Ted:

Every pogrom in history against the Jew was just made up? Jewish Zionist conspiracists are behind the mark of the beast? Silly me..

In this world where up is now down, left is now right, evil is now good, and the truth is now a lie...I will stick with what I have on the matter, regardless if it is "false" to contemporary interests and theories.

As always, Tony, we can agree to disagree.

Another clear deduction. Evil is now good and I am sure your take is that you are on the side of good and “as always, we can agree to disagree.” I see. I must then be on the side of evil.

And when did I ever say every pogrom in history against the Jews was just made up and what does such a libelous inference say about me? Where did I say “Jewish Zionist conspiracists are behind the mark of the beast?"

Silly you?

For what? For you making an assertion that has no purpose unless it applies to myself when in fact it is baseless and libelous and does not apply to myself at all? And then characterizing yourself in contrast to that baseless and libelous assertion?

To summarize, you sometimes veer into critically characterizing other poster’s hearts. You do not stick to the outward act. THAT is what I mean by you partaking of province that is God’s alone.

You do not know if I bristled or if I was actuated by vanity or if I have the kind of heart qualified by “every pogrom in history against the Jew was just made up.”

Now, you wrote “pot calling kettle.”

If you believe I ever veered into characterizing your or anyone else's heart, please offer a citation and if I unfortunately erred in that manner, I will gladly retract because personally, I despise doing so.

Tony

[Ted Oplinger]

Tony,

Regardless of whether you assigned motive or not, you made the charge of "bearing false witness" based upon the sole point that I am speaking from a uniquely different subset of facts and experiences than what you reference. It does not matter that you "stuck with the outward act" - it is still a disagreement based solely upon two very different sets of evidences and experiences.

Disagreeing on a contested point based upon a difference of evidences, is not the definition of "bearing false witness". It never will be, either. Using "false witness" charges in such a way, though, will make most people bristle. That is why I put in a word of caution as a brother in Christ.

The point I have a different perspective, based on evidences and experiences different from your own, does not make mine "false witness" just because you believe it to be such, nor is it "false witness" just because it does not line up with your own particular subset of evidences and experiences.

You complain how inappropriate my conveyance of points are, yet you will not see how your own words come across, particularly as you assign to me "reactions" I "must" be thinking of you as.

I do not consider you vain, nor evil, nor any other negative trait you can think of - that is something you are projecting onto me by reading what I write in a manner I have not written. It does appear that our differences in perspectives on the Trinity thread, you carry with you to every thread we cross paths on.

It does appear that you cannot even respect a simple wish to agree to disagree, for the lack of more constructive communication.

Blessings,

[o2bwise]

Quote:

You complain how inappropriate my conveyance of points are,

I complain about ONE THING. Characterizing the heart.

I wish to note that a false statement of an outward act is altogether different than characterizing the heart and therefore "pot meet kettle" is frankly a fallacy.

Quote:

Ted:

for the lack of more constructive communication.

Quote:

Ted:

Every pogrom in history against the Jew was just made up? Jewish Zionist conspiracists are behind the mark of the beast? Silly me..I simply thought the mark was to be set up by the image of the Sea Beast, in turn made by the Earth Beast, according to Revelation 13. Who knew?

Quote:

Tony (responding to "Silly me":

For what? For you making an assertion that has no purpose unless it applies to myself when in fact it is baseless and libelous and does not apply to myself at all? And then characterizing yourself in contrast to that baseless and libelous assertion?

For the lack of more constructive communication.

Such as making critical libelous statements, assigning them to another and then lacking the wherewithal to retract them? That kind of "constructive level" is pointedly apparent.

Constructive communication indeed.

I'll skip with the "it appears" and just let the words stand on their own merit, or the lack thereof.

[hch]

If you please

[Gibs]

When Satan comes forth personating Jesus Christ in what appears great glory and tells all that Sunday now is his day of worship, that will sort the men from the boys.

There will be many Sabbath keepers that will Capitulate. There is a lot of Sabbath keepers that are not SDA and it will be few that will not capitulate. Many SDA's and other Sabbath keepers will be taken in by Satan and his strong delusions as he and his have become super experts in the art of NLP.

The mark will be the same for SDA's and all. He will require all to keep his Sunday, mark or his name or his number, 666.

"I saw that the two-horned beast had a dragon's mouth, and that his power was in his head, and that the decree would go out of his mouth. Then I saw the Mother of Harlots; that the mother was not the daughters, but separate and distinct from them. She has had her day, and it is past, and her daughters, the Protestant sects, were the next to come on the stage and act out the same mind that the mother had when she persecuted the saints. I saw that as the mother has been declining in power, the daughters had been growing, and soon they will exercise the power once exercised by the mother. {SpM 1.4}

Here is a writing to show you that Satan is the beast of Revelation 13:11-18,

" In Revelation we read concerning Satan: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:13-17). . . . {3SM 393.1}

Did you notice the verses she quoted, now read verses 11 through 18 and see if the context can be broken, it keeps telling you of the beast of verse 11.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

People who have washed their minds in Hollywood will find the beast irresistible on that day. Take the TV out before it's forever too late.

[Gibs]

The TV is the smut window piped right into your home. My wife has alzheimer’s and has depression and so the game channel on the TV is her only thing. I have to subscribe to Diredtv to get 24 hr game channel.

She don't care for one thing else on the thing. She don't even know how at times to get the thing back to the game channel if someone comes and takes it off. Her sister comes and helps me take care of her and they have Time Warner Cable and don't get the 24 hr game channel and so she is here quite often with my wife watching the thing.

It looks like flashes of full nudity is in now and expletives.

I agree that for a canidate for Heaven to get there with a TV in the house you've made a mountain to climb over you don't need, and may not make it because of it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

The mark of the beast is the mark of Cain. Cain sought to compel or control the reason of his brother. So in these last days the beast and its image will seek to compel or control the reason as church and state shall unite to impose their decrees upon all. Sunday worship will be the means by which to accomplish this. In these last days it will be the conquest of the people not only in the churches but in all the world. It is the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes and those who shall oppose it will be singled out and persecuted. Those who shall oppose this are represented by Antipas in the message to the church at Pergamos.

Nico: to dominate (clerical spirit; spirit of domination)

Laitanes: laity

Anti: against, opposed to

Pas: plural of pa pa papacy

So the message to the church at Pergamos applies wherever this doctrine is held. This is where Satan's seat is. This is where Satan's methods are used to bring men under the control of men.

sky

[Gibs]

That decree will come right out of the mouth of Satan,

"I saw that the two-horned beast had a dragon's mouth, and that his power was in his head, and that the decree would go out of his mouth. Then I saw the Mother of Harlots; that the mother was not the daughters, but separate and distinct from them. She has had her day, and it is past, and her daughters, the Protestant sects, were the next to come on the stage and act out the same mind that the mother had when she persecuted the saints. I saw that as the mother has been declining in power, the daughters had been growing, and soon they will exercise the power once exercised by the mother. {SpM 1.4}

Satan the one proclaimed to be wiser than Daniel.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[joeb]

Personally, I have no problem with anyone wanting to keep the Sabbath, but as for the the Mark of the Beast,....

What about all the devout Sabbath-keepers who would crucify Jesus all over again? Jews who hate Christ are keeping the Sabbath far better than most of us ever could.

So I still say it comes down to Ephesians, where it is the Holy Spirit that is the seal of God, so therefore the opposite of that would be expressing a loyalty to Satan. To acquire this "mark", all one has to do is deny Christ, and then one will be allowed to "buy and sell" and go on with life. Otherwise,..."Off with your head!"

"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33

I'm curious how you think that someone who doesn't believe in Christ can keep the Sabbath, a day made to honor Christ for He is the Creator.

How is a legalistic "keeping" of the Sabbath as part of a set of rules, while dishonoring Christ's sacrifice, acceptable to the Father or the Son?

[phkrause]

a day made to honor Christ for He is the Creator.

Interesting comment joeb, but on another thread, I believe the Trinity thread, someone made a post saying the creator was God the Father. Not to derail this thread, or maybe we should start a new one, and ask the Question: "Who do you think created this universe?" The Son or the Father?

[Bird's Eye View]

Originally Posted By: Bird's Eye View

Personally, I have no problem with anyone wanting to keep the Sabbath, but as for the the Mark of the Beast,....

What about all the devout Sabbath-keepers who would crucify Jesus all over again? Jews who hate Christ are keeping the Sabbath far better than most of us ever could.

So I still say it comes down to Ephesians, where it is the Holy Spirit that is the seal of God, so therefore the opposite of that would be expressing a loyalty to Satan. To acquire this "mark", all one has to do is deny Christ, and then one will be allowed to "buy and sell" and go on with life. Otherwise,..."Off with your head!"

"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33

I'm curious how you think that someone who doesn't believe in Christ can keep the Sabbath, a day made to honor Christ for He is the Creator.

My answer would be,...are all the Jews who keep the Sabbath believers in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, or Him being anywhere anywhere near equal to the Father?

[Bird's Eye View]

And while I'm here, as a non-SDA, let me ask you all this...How do you know you have the identity of the "Beast" correct, let alone what it's "mark" will be?

[Gibs]

In answer to PK, it was actually the Father who did the creation, read,

Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

Pr 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

Pr 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Pr 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

Many can't get it in their heads, that before bethlehem no Son of God was born yet and that the Redeemer at that time was a division of the Father Himself and named Yahweh of Hosts, ref, Isa 44:6, don't you see this is what was possessed in the beginning before anything and did all the creation.

Then Yahweh of Hosts, Heaven was emptied of and came in Jesus Christ at Bethlehem and so was God with us in that Body. The fullness of the Father was in Him, Col 1:19 and Col 2:9.

And now to answer Bird's Eye View.

There is two beasts in Rev 13, the one introduced Rev 13:1 and the one Rev 13:11.

Rev 13:1 is the "image" beast as it too has 7 heads and 10 horns and now with the horns crowned. This is the clue that a change has been made of the king power as before 1798 the crowns were on the heads, Rev 12:3, please read it.

So the truth is before 1798 this image beast was Satan's Old World Order, OWO and now since 1798 a new system of Satan's rule began to rise up out of the sea of peoples, the New World Order, NWO.

Satan powers and sends his "IMAGE BEAST"

Re 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Then Going to Rev 13:11-18 we find this going on and this beast is Satan and no one else,

Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Re 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Re 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Re 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Number of a man? Yes, Read!,

Eze 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Any out there go ahead and deny the truth of the case if you want, but it is in your faces today and if you are not seeing it, well God help you.

B.E.V., yes ole Gibs don't agree with the popular SDA view of this but who is right? Many see what I do, what do you see?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[o2bwise]

Hi,

I entered the following in a blog. There was a bit of discussion around this and I discern it is appropriate to provide balance this one time.

In the aim to not derail, I suggest no one replies to this post and whether or not anyone does, I will not provide any additional post on this sensitive subject here.

Blessings, and below is something I recently wrote in a blog.

Tony

I think my motive for writing this is a passion for wanting to defend the falsely accused.

The only holocausts of the 20th century I am aware of are 1)the Jewish holocaust against Russians, 2)the Jewish holocaust against Ukrainians (holodomor), 3)the Jewish holocaust against Armenians, 4)the Jewish holocaust against Germans, and 5)the Jewish holocaust against Palestinians.

Once emotionalism is removed, I find the purported German holocaust against Jews to be astonishingly simple to realize it is nothing but a total hoax.

The subject is too lengthy to dissect for this forum, so just a couple of pointers…

What Made You First Question the Holocaust (codoh forums)?

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6441

Top Reasons for Rejecting the Holocaust (codoh forums)

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6441

Part of my purpose in citing the above two sites is so one can see the “astonishing” lack of “anti-semitism” in the posts.

Examples of some of the utterly absurd Nuremberg Testimonies

http://www.cwporter.com/partone.htm

I will here add that even Raul Hilberg has acknowledged there is not ONE document of a German plan to exterminate Jews. He now says it was carried out by a collective telepathy. (Yeah, right!)

Two technical experts who once believed in the holocaust examined evidence for alleged gassing – Fred Luechter and Germar Rudolf. They came away convinced gassings did not take place. This from a purely scientific perspective. Rudolf went to jail for his views.

So much more could be said, but I add two more. You can google David Cole’s videos and “one third of the holocaust.”

The camps were labor camps for the purpose of fueling a war effort. The many dead was primarily due to typhus and starvation largely due to allied severing of supply lines.

I do not believe there is a larger example of a people so horrifically falsely accused. The holocaust was primarily conceived by a depraved people who had just butchered tens of millions and who went on to rape and murder tens of thousands of German women from ages 8-80. Projection of their own evil onto an innocent people they also butchered.

And I for one am sick and tired of the unjustness leveled at Germany.

[Bird's Eye View]

Gibs, I don't know that everyone can agree on who is controlling these systems today.

Find out who is at the top of the "pyramid" and controlling the money system and that might help to make sense of things.

I just don't believe it is the Catholic church.

Don't SDAs mostly all assume that is the Beast because of the Sunday Sabbath issue?

[o2bwise]

Hi Bird,

My present sense is that the synagogue of Satan is basically Talmudic Judaism and the beast that rises out of the sea is papacy/Vatican.

As typical the former are a bit in the shadows and are "advisors" of the latter.

According to the encyclopedia judaica, Rothschild's title was Crown Agent, that being "guardian of the Vatican treasury."

I think you can see both powers with a dark influential hand in the last days.

Quote:

From:

http://www.texemarrs.com/Merchant2/merch...mystery_babylon

Solving the Mystery of Babylon the Great

Are the Pope, the Roman Catholic Church, the Jesuit Order, and the Zionist elite working together in the most horrific conspiracy against both God and Man?

That is exactly what attorney and Christian researcher Edward Hendrie investigated and now reveals in one of the greatest exposés of all time. Solving the Mystery of Babylon the Great is a book you don’t want to miss. Never before have the crypto Jews who seized the reins of power in Rome been put under such intense scrutiny.

Discover how the Rothschild's became the bankers for the Vatican; how murderous, secretive Jews founded the conspiratorial Jesuit Order and today direct its global activities. Read how the practices and dogma of ancient Babylon and the Masonic Lodge were integrated into the Catholic Catechism and how sinister Popes have made today’s one billion-strong Catholic Church a bastion of Judaic treachery and Babylonian magic. See also how Communism sprang up from the psychopathic minds of Jews like Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky, but was disseminated around the world by Jesuit priests.

Find out how the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles have been removed from Catholic teachings while the demonic rituals and dogma of the Jewish Kabbala and Talmud have been elevated and promoted, even as the loyal Catholic faithful have been deceived and led into satanic worship and kabbalistic sorcery. Discover how crypto-Jews have infiltrated the Vatican and are now teaching the Cardinals and Bishops to applaud Judaism, and how both religious systems are big on black magic, talismans, charms, and idols. Read about the pedophilia of the sexually perverted priests and rabbis and the Secret Doctrine of Lucifer adopted by the Jews and embraced by the Pope.

The Jewish Connection to Rome can no longer be disputed. The Roman Catholic Church is nothing more than a "Christian Front" for a Judaic/Babylonian World Religion. The monstrous tentacles of this global beast now grip the White House and the capitals of Europe. Meanwhile Judeo/Catholicism is using American power to gobble up the Islamic nations and steal their oil.

I think it is more than plausible to see the Whore of Babylon as having dual application where one is the literal apostate church within literal Babylon that crafted the Babylonian Talmud and whose "spiritual lineage" crucified our Savior.

Blessings,

Tony

[joeb]

My answer would be,...are all the Jews who keep the Sabbath believers in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, or Him being anywhere anywhere near equal to the Father?

I think we're coming at this from two different perspectives when we think "keep".

The Jews can only "keep" the Sabbath purely from a perspective of earning salvation through obedience to a set of rules when they deny Christ as their Savior.

The Christian can truly "keep" the Sabbath because they are honoring Christ, making Him, and their relationship with Him, the center of the day. Not because of a set of rules, but because of who He is and what He has done.

This gets into what Dietrich Bonhoeffer says about obedience to Christ. He said, only he who believes can obey. And only he who obeys can believe. This is a very profound truth that goes to the very basis of Christianity and our discipleship to Christ.

[Tom Wetmore]

Moderator Note:

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