This is Information All SDA's Should Know Of

[joeb]

He was different from us in that He never had any cultivated tendencies or propensities, because He never sinned. By the time WE come to Jesus, we are full of them. Bad habits galore, at least in my case.

Imagine if you didn't have any bad habits to overcome when you gave your life to Christ.It would still be in your nature to sin because of your heredity. But it would not be ingrained in you by habit.

So as long as you didn't break your connection to the almighty...

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

He was different from us in that He never had any cultivated tendencies or propensities, because He never sinned. By the time WE come to Jesus, we are full of them. Bad habits galore, at least in my case.

Imagine if you didn't have any bad habits to overcome when you gave your life to Christ.It would still be in your nature to sin because of your heredity. But it would not be ingrained in you by habit.

So as long as you didn't break your connection to the almighty...

And it is impossible for us to overcome the natural tendencies of our hearts without the power of the Holy Spirit.

Stop trying to minimize the power of our fallen nature. If it wasn't too much for us to overcome we wouldn't need the power of the Holy Spirit.

Who said anything at all about not needing the power of the Holy Spirit? You're arguing with a straw man. LOL!

I even said in the quote you used: "As long as you don't break your connection to the Almighty"

Who did you think I was talking about?

Even Jesus needed, AND USED the power of the Holy Spirit. That's how He did it! That's what He was showing us. He didn't use his divinity. If He had, then He couldn't be our substitute.

You can't even stay on the same page evidently. Carry on...beat that straw man!

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit, were you?

The conceptus, Jesus, was referred to as that "holy thing," were you considered holy when you were born or conceived?

Of course not, but I'm not the Son of God. That's an impertinent question.

That's one of those questions that redw**d used to ask when he was contending that there is no need for obedience of any kind.

I expected more than that from you. There is an underlying reason why you would rather ask stupid questions than to be honest with yourself, and look at the evidence objectively. And I know what it is, but I'm not sure you do.

But if you want to cling to it that desperately, then go ahead.

Stupid question? You have been claiming that Christ was born with the exact same sinful nature that we have. Now you call it a stupid question because the answers to my questions point to the fallacy of your position!!! If He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, then He could not be like me nor me like Him because like David, I was conceived in sin. If He was born holy, He could not be like me nor me like Him because selfishness was already inherent in the unholy me!!!

How could someone conceived of the Holy Spirit and born holy have propensities that are naturally evil? EGW CLEARLY says He came as the Second Adam.

[CoAspen]

Hang in there, Gerry, but it's a lost cause! When a individual can't give a straight answer, the solution is to attack the person asking the question! Samo-samo.......

[Gerr]

Stupid question. Straw man. Stop hiding behind those kind of excuses Richard. But if you want to cling to an error, go ahead. :)

[Gibs]

RLH and I have retired of this discussion as it has gotten out of line. Not profitable to continue.

[Gerr]

RLH and I have retired of this discussion as it has gotten out of line. Not profitable to continue.

That's because you can't defend your position.

[Guest]

I prefer to speak for myself, Gibs.

And Gerry doesn't want me to go. :)

[Gibs]

RLH, I certainly will allow you that privilege. Love you Brother, Gibs.

[Felix Florimon]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Of course not, but I'm not the Son of God. That's an impertinent question.

That's one of those questions that redw**d used to ask when he was contending that there is no need for obedience of any kind.

I expected more than that from you. There is an underlying reason why you would rather ask stupid questions than to be honest with yourself, and look at the evidence objectively. And I know what it is, but I'm not sure you do.

But if you want to cling to it that desperately, then go ahead.

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Stupid question? You have been claiming that Christ was born with the exact same sinful nature that we have. Now you call it a stupid question because the answers to my questions point to the fallacy of your position!!! If He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, then He could not be like me nor me like Him because like David, I was conceived in sin. If He was born holy, He could not be like me nor me like Him because selfishness was already inherent in the unholy me!!!

How could someone conceived of the Holy Spirit and born holy have propensities that are naturally evil? EGW CLEARLY says He came as the Second Adam.

[/quote']

There is not a better way to help ourselves and others going to God the Father and being able to enjoy eternal life than having an ability to establish a good personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. We could only establish a good personal relationship with Jesus only when we truly comprehend and understand who Jesus Christ really is.

Our Lord Jesus is the only person born on earth who was holy from the moment His human body was conceived in the womb of a woman to the last minute He said His last words and exhaled His last breath. The first man on earth was Adam, just someone who became a living being. Jesus, the last Adam with bones and flesh is much more than a man, He is a life giving Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45).

About: "... have been claiming that Christ was born with the exact same sinful nature that we have," this does not mean that He had an inner tendency to break God's laws or that He had to struggle against those tendencies. The real meaning of those words is that in order to stay focus on His mission to save the human race, Jesus needed to spend time praying with much more intensity and a higher frequency than Enoch the great grand father of Noah. Even though Jesus was sinless and without any propensity to sin, we don't find it difficult to visualize Him so emotionally overwhelmed as to be able to imagine Him weeping with a much higher frequency than Adam, Eve, Set, Abel or Enoch. Our Lord Jesus even had the ability of fearing for His own life before His time was due (John 7:5-9). The "exact same sinful nature that we have" does not refer to a tendency to sin but on the effects of sin on such human nature. The ability of feeling overwhelmed by a particular circumstance and taking steps to avoid such circumstance. A clear example of this is seen when at times His earthly brothers had the ability of putting Him in such emotionally difficult situation that, during His youth and before His public mission, He preferred to spend a significant time away from His home in order to spend more time with Lazarus and his sisters Martha and Mary.

Jesus, a holy individual did not have any propensity or inclination to sin. He was born with a mission to save us from our sins. This is a mission that not even the holiest of the holiest created angels was able to carry out. The effects of sin on His human nature gave Him the ability to feel discouraged to proceed on His mission to save us. In the eyes of Heaven, it also created a situation of having a real need to send Moses and Elijah to encourage our Lord Jesus to proceed on His mission of salvation for the human race. However, within the mind of our Lord Jesus Christ there was never the smallest doubt of Him finally doing just the will of the Father.

FF

[joeb]

Who said anything at all about not needing the power of the Holy Spirit? You're arguing with a straw man. LOL!

I even said in the quote you used: "As long as you don't break your connection to the Almighty"

Who did you think I was talking about?

Even Jesus needed, AND USED the power of the Holy Spirit. That's how He did it! That's what He was showing us. He didn't use his divinity. If He had, then He couldn't be our substitute.

You can't even stay on the same page evidently. Carry on...beat that straw man!

Yes, Richard, how about staying on point? How about replying to the main gist of my post, not a tangent/straw_man that you created?

If Christ, as you say He was, was born with our depraved natures, both physical and spiritual, then He needed a Savior as He was born sinful, and had to overcome sinfulness itself. In your position He was born without the divine character Ellen White says he maintained throughout His lifetime here on earth. We cannot maintain a character throughout our lifetimes which we did not begin our lives with. We can only grow_into/achieve a character which we did not start life with. That's what you and I must do, but that's not what Ellen White says Christ did.

Change_of_character does not equal maintaining_a_character. They are two widely disparate concepts.

[CoAspen]

Agree!!

Now if someone can explain how a person with a sinful nature, save anyone?

If that is possible, why can't we save ourselves?