How expensive is too expensive?

[LifeHiscost]

and what should be the criteria in a world gone crazy. Should there be any criteria?

http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/oprah-winfrey-apologizes-racist-handbag-furor-110336

I'm thinking consideration of the purchase of a handbag at this price is more to be apologized for as opposed to any racial motivation in the country mentioned, especially in light of the fact there are 43,000,000 people on food stamps in America.

Quote:

Winfrey went on to say that, when she went to the boutique in Zurich to look at the $38,000 handbag, her appearance at the time was not indicative of her wealth -- not that she thinks that should have mattered.

God cares!

[phkrause]

What does foodstamps have to do with Oprah? I do agree that's a bit to expensive, but she does have the money and can buy whatever she wants! She probably helps more people with her money than you and I have made in our lifetime. Again she can do whatever she wants with her money! Are we jealous?

[LifeHiscost]

That's why I asked, is there any criteria? It would seem you believe each of us should be able to set our own criteria. Wouldn't that more or less eliminate the need of a God given book of instruction.

As to jealous, I've seen the difficulties that those with an overabundance of wealth acquire to themselves, so no, I don't think I have any jealousy. But I would believe there are plenty of places that a whole village of people could survive for a year with access to that amount, who have no one to step in and fill the gap.

I also recognize that when one discusses the matter of money, even without a gun being stuck in their face, it can raise their ire.

"And Jesus said to His disciples, Truly I say to you, it will be difficult for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven."Matthew 19:23 AMP

God cares!

[cricket]

As humans, do we not have the wherewithal to help one another boundlessly? When can it ever be said of one of us, "Well done, good and faithful servant?"

[phkrause]

but I can see that it has to do with racial profiling

dgrimm60

I saw that too dgrimm. It reminds me of a movie I saw a while back called "Pretty Woman."

[Gerr]

Something is too expensive if you can't afford it!

[Gerr]

[Gerr]

No doubt many of those 43 mil really need the help. But how many of them are able-bodied and too lazy to find work or just have no motivation to get an education because they have been raised in a culture of dependency?

[LifeHiscost]

As humans, do we not have the wherewithal to help one another boundlessly? When can it ever be said of one of us, "Well done, good and faithful servant?"

Especially the underlined. It seems the only one's not able to do that would be those who "...be stingy and lose everything." Proverbs 11:24 NLT. Interesting way the NLT puts it.

"There is one who scatters, and yet increases all the more,

And there is one who withholds what is justly due, and yet it results only in want."Proverbs 11:24 NASB

As to the second half of your statement IMHO there are those who have given to the point of earthly poverty just because they had a heart to give whenever they saw any who had less than themselves. Not necessarily a prevalent characteristic in the general society of which I'm aware.

"And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”"Luke 21:1-5 NKJV

God cares!

[cricket]

Yep.

[Gerr]

Do you think Oprah is stingy? Do you know what she does with her money? I believe she is very generous with her money. Do you know what Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Ted Turner are doing with their billions?

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Winfrey went on to say that, when she went to the boutique in Zurich to look at the $38,000 handbag, her appearance at the time was not indicative of her wealth -- not that she thinks that should have mattered.

I personally heard her interview. In the interview that I heard, she did not say what has been stated above. She said:

1) She went into the store.

2) As she was about to leave she noted the handbag and asked the clerk to show it to her. IOW, she did not go into the store to look at the handbag.

3) At that time, she did not know that it was a $38,000 handbag. IOW, she did not go into the store with the thought of purchasing a $38k handbag.

4) When she learned, from the publicity, that it was a $38,000 handbag, she immediately agreed that it was to expensive for her to purchase. IOW, she would not consider purchasing such a handbag.

I will suggest that there is considerable difference between what I heard Oprah say in a televised interview and what is cited above.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

But how many of them are able-bodied and too lazy to find work or just have no motivation to get an education because they have been raised in a culture of dependency?

Gerry, you are a physician and understand science. You understand what it would take to answer your question. You could initiate a formal study that had the scientific rigor to provide the answer.

As you know, in science, speculation is not worth much.

NOTE: I would be willing to suggest that you could get a grant to fund your study if you proposed one that had scientific merit. You have raised a question that I will suggest many would like to know and would be of value to our society today.

[Bravus]

No doubt many of those 43 mil really need the help. But how many of them are able-bodied and too lazy to find work or just have no motivation to get an education because they have been raised in a culture of dependency?

Many people who are employed are now on food stamps even though they are working, because wages have been pushed down to the point where they no longer provide a living wage.

America has sowed the wind with its inequality, and will reap the whirlwind... and blaming the victims is not helping.

[Gregory Matthews]

And with the erosion of benefits in our society today, many more are going to be pushed to the place where they will need help just to live.

[Gerr]

I am not just speculating, Gregory. Many such studies have in fact been done! One such authority was in the news recently but I can't recall his name. He started out as a liberal, studied the issue and got his PhD from either MIT or Harvard as a result of this study. He also turned conservative as a result. Here are just a few references from the Wikipedia.

^ Christopher Pierson, Beyond the Welfare State?: The New Political Economy of Welfare (Cambridge: Polity Press, 2006), 75, 78, 88, 111-112, 168, & 193

^ 2008 Indicators of Welfare Dependence Figure TANF 2.

^ Maria Cancian, Robert H. Haveman, Daniel R. Meyer and Barbara Wolfe, "Before and After TANF: the Economic Well-Being of Women Leaving Welfare," Social Services Review 76(4) (2002): 603-641.

^ Lawrence M. Mead, The New Paternalism: Supervisory Approaches to Poverty (Washington D.C.: The Brookings Institution, 1997)

^ David T. Ellwood and Lawrence H. Summers, "Poverty in America: is Welfare the Answer or the Problem", NBER Working Paper Series 1771 (1985).

^ Kent R. Weaver, Ending Welfare as We Know It.( Washington, D.C.: The Brookings Institution, 2004).

^ Robert Lieberman., Shifting the Color Line: Race and the American Welfare State (Boston: Harvard UP, 2002).

^ "Social Security Act of 1935. United States Statutes at Large.

^ June Axinn and Mark J. Stern, Social Welfare: A History of the American Response to Need, (White Plains, NY: Longman Publishers, 2007)

^ Robert M. Cohen. "Labor Force and Unemployment in the 1920's and 1930's: A Re-Examination Based on Postwar Experience", The Review of Economics and Statistics, 55(1) (1973): 46-55.

^ Stanley Feldman and John Zaller, "The Political Culture of Ambivalence: Ideological Responses to the Welfare State," American Journal of Political Science, 36(1) (1992): 268-307.

^ Christina D. Romer. "What Ended the Great Depression." The Journal of Economic History, 52 (4) (1992): 757-784.

^ Jerold Rusk. Interview (2008).

^ David Frum, How We Got Here: The '70s. (New York: Basic Books, 2002).

^ The Negro Family: The Case for National Action. 1965. Office of Policy Planning and Research, United States Department of Labor. Washington D.C.

^ "Average Monthly AFDC/T ANF Benefit per Recipient in Constant 2006 Dollars." 2006. Department of Health and Human Resources. http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/indicators08/apa.shtml#ftanf2. (Retrieved November 16, 2010)

^ "Number in Poverty and Poverty Rate: 1959 to 2008". 2009. U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey.

^ "United States – Unemployment Rate (1890–2009)." 2010. U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey

^ Lawrence M. Mead, Beyond Entitlement: the Social Obligations of Citizenship. (New York: the Free Press, 1986)

^ Oscar Lewis, Five Families: Mexican Case Studies in the Culture of Poverty, (New York: Basic Books, 1959)

[Stan]

Does the choice come down to this?

Either have companies pay a livable wages, or the Gov't provides food stamps?

Seems like they are subsidizing the Walmart's... or is that too simplistic of a solution?

?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

No doubt many of those 43 mil really need the help. But how many of them are able-bodied and too lazy to find work or just have no motivation to get an education because they have been raised in a culture of dependency?

Many people who are employed are now on food stamps even though they are working, because wages have been pushed down to the point where they no longer provide a living wage.

America has sowed the wind with its inequality, and will reap the whirlwind... and blaming the victims is not helping.

Notice that I did not say we shouldn't help people who need help. There are indeed people who could not help but be dependent on others. I am totally aware of that. That is why a good chunk of my income goes to helping other people. But 43 MILLION on food stamps? That's 2x the population of Australia (as of 2010 anyway)!!! That boggles my mind!

My family could have played the victim too. My father had a 5th grade education. I don't even know how much education my mother had, but I doubt she had any more than my father. My father worked in the sugar cane plantation in Hawaii. What I am about to say is in no bragging but just to show that one's destiny and position in life is largely in one's own hand, especially in the USA which a lot of people in the world still consider the land of opportunity.

My brother, my sister, and myself all went to SDA colleges. As you well know, they are not inexpensive. We took longer to finish college than most who graduated in 4 years because we worked.

[Gregory Matthews]

My Friend:

There may have been studies done, I was pretty certain that they had been done. But, what did they discover? What are the facts?

You have not cited any specific facts.

Your statement was carefully worded in a matter to imply, without directly saying so, that large numbers fill into a certain catagory.

Due to that, your comment was speculative and it was not factual.

[Gerr]

What Walmart is doing is unconscionable, imho. But Walmart or flipping burgers for many should only be a temporary solution.

[Tom Wetmore]

Does the choice come down to this?

Either have companies pay a livable wages, or the Gov't provides food stamps?

Seems like they are subsidizing the Walmart's... or is that too simplistic of a solution?

?

That post was a bit like Toto pulling back the curtain...

Yes, who exactly is being subsidized by the government the most, really! It is time the ruse ends and we recognize that we have been duped.

[Gerr]

In the early 1960s, President Lyndon B. Johnson began his War on Poverty by introducing many new elements to welfare, including Medicare, Medicaid, increases in subsidized public housing, and more. David Frum (2002) believed such increases in government programs were counterproductive, because he found positive correlations between government aid and those who could not stay above the poverty line without such aid. Frum concluded that welfare only bred dependence on the government.[14]

During the Johnson administration, sociologist and U.S. Senator, Daniel Patrick Moynihan published a study on the impacts of welfare on behavior during the 1960s. His report, "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action" (1965) is commonly referred to as the "Moynihan Report".

The Moynihan Report advocates for increased welfare for poor black families, but also expressed that welfare does not empower the destitute to find solutions to their financial troubles. Moynihan states: "The breakdown of the negro family has led to a startling increase in welfare dependency," and that welfare, although helpful, constituted a reactive measure, failing to address the true roots of poverty. Moynihan concluded that more proactive means to empower black families include the promotion of vocational training and a value in education.[15] Wikipedia

[Bravus]

...but the fact that real wages (in inflation-adjusted dollars) have been falling for decades has nothing to do with increasing poverty...

[cricket]

...and everything to do with greed.

[Gerr]

...and everything to do with greed.

As Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is good." That's probably why it's popular not only among many of the "haves" but also the "have-nots".