Why is it hard?

[lazarus]

Why is it hard to talk about race issues? Would like to hear your thoughts.

[Johann]

Why should it be difficult? Aren't we all human?

[bonnie]

Maybe it is because so often it is seen as a one sided problem.

If it weren't for the racism of the "white race" racism might very well disappear

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think it has to do with the inability to empathize with the perceived issues of a folks of another race. One can listen, but if you don't or can't empathize and see *their* side of the problems, all the talk becomes mere worthless verbiage.

It gets a whole lot easier when you have or find relatives who are predominantly of another race.... one gains a new perspective, because it has to do with *family* now...

(and that's true not only for racial issues, but for those concerning LGBT and other groups)

[M. T. Cross]

I think one of the reasons is because we all have biases and when we are forced to face them we don't like what we see. So its just easier to avoid the subject of the bias.

Race is one of the largest things people have a bias on. That goes for every race, white, black, brown, yellow, red and whatever other we may have.

I have always found it really odd however that people would base their bias on skin colour. Really a very shallow thing. Culturalism however......... thats a whole different thing, a thing that is often mistaken for racism.

[Naomi]

Maybe it is because so often it is seen as a one sided problem.

If it weren't for the racism of the "white race" racism might very well disappear

In every nationality racism is an issue, and has been since the beginning of time. Perhaps you are correct Bonnie, and the problem is the white race. However, I believe if you look at the history of most cultures you will find racism.

In most instances the problem starts not due to nationality but due to the behavior patterns of a certain group. It's difficult to like someone (of any nationality) who has a chip on their shoulder and is always blaming someone else for their problems. Dump the attitude and see how the world responds. Personality, I have very close friends who I greatly admire and respect, of all nationalities. I also know people of all races that I attempt to treat with respect but due to attitudes or behavior I choose to keep my distance, so to speak.

Laz, I don't know what you are attempting to accomplish in this thread,I do hope you finds that which you seek.

[Bravus]

We're all human... dispensing with 'race' as a notion entirely would be a great start.

Identifying help to the disadvantaged based on their disadvantage, not their race, would also solve a heap of problems - even when there's a very strong correlation between race and disadvantage in a particular region.

[bonnie]

Identifying help to the disadvantaged based on their disadvantage, not their race, would also solve a heap of problems - even when there's a very strong correlation between race and disadvantage in a particular region.

The race word has become a convenient club to keep banging your opponent over the head.

The moral outrage is deafening,but very selective.

Remember Linda Tripp? I believe she was initially charged with felony wiretapping.She got blasted pretty good by many in the press.

Now we have Sterling.Where is the outrage over this felony wire tapping? It is illegal in Ca. While I don't have much sympathy for those that claim entrapment,this is exactly what this is.

Regardless of the scuz ball involved people should be allowed the freedom to say what they choose in their own home.

Now everyone gets on their moral high horse because it is race.

Sterling's behavior wasn't exactly a unknown prior to this.

A young man records incidences of the bullying he is subject to,has his tape erased and is charged with disorderly conduct.

If this had been a minority student,everyone would have been up in arms over racism and bigotry. Forgetting all about the "illegal wire tapping"

Derogatory racial comments are made almost daily. The level of moral outrage depends on whose mouth it is coming from.

A senator recently made some pretty despicable comments concerning black conservatives and comparing them to Nazi's. This isn't the first time and after reporting it,the press yawns and says "next"

When groups of black teens are playing the knock out game against mainly Jews,the argument here was whether or not that was the correct term. Not the damage and injury being caused to others.

Reverse that and the negative response would have been far greater.

Racism is a fact of life and all races are guilty. But as long as cleaning up racism targets only one guilty group it is unlikely to get any better.

If racism is a problem for you,then the black conservatives being called Nazi's would inspire the same outrage as a similar

comment concerning minorities.

Fairness in the law would cause you to at least object to the illegal entrapment and wiretapping of Sterling as Linda Tripp did.

But that is conveniently overlooked and the racial hobby horse gets ridden to death.

I don't have any sympathy for this man,but had this been a negative recording concerning anything but race,everyone would be yawning

[Naomi]

Why is it hard to talk about race issues? Would like to hear your thoughts.

IMO Perhaps Because we all know the only thing that it will accomplish is to give those who choose to play the poor-me race card, at every opportunity, another venue.

[Naomi]

We're all human... dispensing with 'race' as a notion entirely would be a great start.

Identifying help to the disadvantaged based on their disadvantage, not their race, would also solve a heap of problems - even when there's a very strong correlation between race and disadvantage in a particular region.

[lazarus]

I think it has to do with the inability to empathize with the perceived issues of a folks of another race. One can listen, but if you don't or can't empathize and see *their* side of the problems, all the talk becomes mere worthless verbiage.

Agree.

What difference do you think the mere expression of empathy makes? I have my own views but would like to hear your take.

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It gets a whole lot easier when you have or find relatives who are predominantly of another race.... one gains a new perspective, because it has to do with *family* now...

What's the new perspective that you gained? What was the perspective you had before? Not trying to interrogate just understand.

[lazarus]

Laz, I don't know what you are attempting to accomplish in this thread,I do hope you finds that which you seek.

I thought it was quite clear. Perhaps there are other reasons why you think the thread was started.

[lazarus]

Identifying help to the disadvantaged based on their disadvantage, not their race, would also solve a heap of problems - even when there's a very strong correlation between race and disadvantage in a particular region.

I would agree with that but do you think that help based on race is a major reason as to why the conversations get so heated?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

What difference do you think the mere expression of empathy makes? I have my own views but would like to hear your take.

My view of empathy means that the person is sensitive to the feelings and needs of the other person. It doesn't solve any disagreements between the two persons, but I think it creates far more trusting (and open) interpersonal communications. If each is open to the ideas and feelings of the other, understanding is also far more likely.

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It gets a whole lot easier when you have or find relatives who are predominantly of another race.... one gains a new perspective, because it has to do with *family* now...

What's the new perspective that you gained? What was the perspective you had before? Not trying to interrogate just understand.

This is interesting, and I've thought about it a lot over the past year after finding new cousins who are African American.. I'd had no idea that a distant cousin "Red John Kincaid," a North Carolina plantation owner back in the early 1800's, had fathered children by a slave named "Tilly." By word-of-mouth, the story had been passed down from generation to generation, but they never knew if it was true, or not. DNA proved it, as one of the older descendants had a solid DNA match with me.

I had grown up with very little contact with people of a different race, be it African American, Asian, Latino, or other. While my parents never made race an issue, my one grandmother was terribly racist and would use the n-word frequently when referring to some neighbors. I was never quite sure what her reasoning was, other than there was some sort of mutual antagonism between her and the neighbor lady. I never heard my grandpa use any mean language towards anyone. My father was never racist.

On my mom's side, my grandparents were more more antagonistic to Jews than to blacks (which was strange considering one of them had a Jewish grandmother). My grandfather put up his house as collateral to bail a black man out of jail in the 1930's - he'd been accused of murder, but grandpa rightly thought he was not guilty, and the man was exonerated.

My mom, however, still make little "digs" when she speaks of Jews. I've come to the conclusion that when she was growing up, it was the Jewish community who held the bulk of the wealth in her community and lots of people resented it. Though why it should be an issue to my mom's family, is a mystery since they were quite well off.

So... my own views were somewhat reflective of my upbringing. To be perfectly honest, I resented blacks in general because I thought they were getting a better chance at success than me (due to all the social actions done in the 1960's/70's). I perceived the situation as me having to work harder for scholarships and employment, because I wasn't in the "elite" minority. It was a "them" vs. "me" mindset.

During the 80's and 90's, however, I started becoming acquainted with people of different races and found that, not only were they mostly concerned about the same things as me, but they also had the same values. That started my change of view.

But when I found my cousins, it put the whole "racial thing" on a new level - actually, it wiped out the "level." When someone starts saying the "n-word" or making other derogatory comments about African Americans, I take it personally - because it's my *family* being scorned. And I get angry and defensive. And I feel that way towards my Jewish relatives as well.

It's difficult for people to get indignant about incidents which involve their ancestors 500 or more years ago. But when it's something that happened in the past 200 years, it gets very personal.

I just received the divorce papers of my great grandfather and his 1st wife. I found that she hit him with a stick, called him filthy names, committed adultery and was mean and cruel in numerous other ways. That made me sick to my stomach. So much so, that I researched the name of the man she stepped out with...and found that his granddaughter recently died in the same small town where I live now. Not sure why I wanted to know, but, truth to be told, I do NOT want to meet up with any of those descendants, even though they are completely innocent in the atrocities against my great grandfather.

It's not so very hard to understand now why African Americans still have pain in their hearts about the slavery issues.... and why some feel like striking out.

(sorry about the length of my response....I don't usually ramble like this)

[LifeHiscost]

Why is it hard to talk about race issues? Would like to hear your thoughts.

I'd like to suggest that it is hard for most since there is no valid reason why one person should feel in the least superior to another, whether based on the color of the skin or the size of the nose or supposed intelligence, and that last would be a misnomer based on the supposition that we are created with some having more brain cells than others. It is humbling to admit individually we have no preeminence over another, something difficult to conclude when we see ourselves as rich and increased with goods and in need of nothing, not recognizing that we are all poor and naked and wretched and blind.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

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When someone starts saying the "n-word" or making other derogatory comments about African Americans, I take it personally - because it's my *family* being scorned.

Isn't it great when it's found that all of us have the same DNA as Adam and Eve? And even more so, as Jesus.

"“Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters."Matthew 23:8n NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Isn't it great when it's found that all of us have the same DNA as Adam and Eve? And even more so, as Jesus.

DNA is not as simplistic as that. But aside from that, the "family of God" type of platitudes sound really nice, but in reality, very few people seem to believe it's true or act on it, except for perhaps an hour or two on Saturdays or Sundays.

[LifeHiscost]

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but in reality, very few people seem to believe it's true or act on it, except for perhaps an hour or two on Saturdays or Sundays.

Watching the secular news gives me the tendency to agree with you, however I assume comparably I only have very few close acquaintances and don't feel assured the secular news gives a very balanced picture of people in general. Therefor I believe to accept what is written in the Word pretty much defines last day events.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Bravus]

Laz, I suspect that 'unfair' assistance to some based on race is a pretext used by those with a racist barrow to push, so no, I don't think resolving that particular issue would *either* fix racism or make race easier to discuss. It was intended more as an illustration of my first point: that we are all human. Everything that reminds us of that and reinforces it is helpful. Everything that sets up barriers and boundaries is unhelpful.

But maybe that's me finding the discussion of race unconfortable? I don't *think* so: I just think it's a problematic construct in the first place. No-one's 'race' is pure, and we're all Africans originally anyway. Our differences are literally only skin deep. Our similarities go to the heart and the bone.

[LifeHiscost]

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we're all Africans originally anyway.

I heard that was apes!

God's image! Jesus' character!

[Johann]

Laz, I suspect that 'unfair' assistance to some based on race is a pretext used by those with a racist barrow to push, so no, I don't think resolving that particular issue would *either* fix racism or make race easier to discuss. It was intended more as an illustration of my first point: that we are all human. Everything that reminds us of that and reinforces it is helpful. Everything that sets up barriers and boundaries is unhelpful.

But maybe that's me finding the discussion of race unconfortable? I don't *think* so: I just think it's a problematic construct in the first place. No-one's 'race' is pure, and we're all Africans originally anyway. Our differences are literally only skin deep. Our similarities go to the heart and the bone.

Excellent!

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Laz, I suspect that 'unfair' assistance to some based on race is a pretext used by those with a racist barrow to push, so no, I don't think resolving that particular issue would *either* fix racism or make race easier to discuss. It was intended more as an illustration of my first point: that we are all human. Everything that reminds us of that and reinforces it is helpful. Everything that sets up barriers and boundaries is unhelpful.

But maybe that's me finding the discussion of race unconfortable? I don't *think* so: I just think it's a problematic construct in the first place. No-one's 'race' is pure, and we're all Africans originally anyway. Our differences are literally only skin deep. Our similarities go to the heart and the bone.

Excellent!

[lazarus]

It's not so very hard to understand now why African Americans still have pain in their hearts about the slavery issues.... and why some feel like striking out.

(sorry about the length of my response....I don't usually ramble like this)

Wow! Thanks for the description of your recent experience and your honesty. It's interesting to see how that when you realized that African Americans were part of your family that your feelings changed. Hope that's an accurate reflection. This is the experience that all Americans need.

Your are right. African Americans still have a lot of pain. The trauma has passed from generation to generation. I'm glad you can see that.

[lazarus]

But maybe that's me finding the discussion of race unconfortable? I don't *think* so: I just think it's a problematic construct in the first place. No-one's 'race' is pure, and we're all Africans originally anyway. Our differences are literally only skin deep. Our similarities go to the heart and the bone.

It is definitely a problematic construct, but it the construct that has shaped interpersonal relationships particularly in the USA and to varying degrees countries all over the world. I would say that our physiological differences are skin deep but that is where our similarities begin to diverge. Our experience in the world leads to vast differences in how we see the world. In my view, for example, European-Americans and African-Americans see America in very different ways because their experience.

Let me illustrate:

If I were to ask a white person what it means to be white they would have a hard time giving an answer to that question.

If you were to ask a black person what it means to be black they could talk for hours.

This is a fundamental question of identity. One group has not had to reflect on their racial identity. One group is forced to reflect every day.

[LifeHiscost]

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The trauma has passed from generation to generation. I'm glad you can see that.

It's been the same from the beginning of time, some end up being slaves, others end up being self-proclaimed master. Get acquainted with and join yourself to the only Person Who has the right to be our Master and you have the promise of being able to reign with Him.

"I have learned how to be content with whatever I have."Philippians 4:12 NLT

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Revelation 20:6 KJV

God blesses! Jesus cares!