The God of Islam?

[Gregory Matthews]

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But according to the "scholars" it has been alleged on this thread that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship God.

We need to modify this a bit--I include myself in this modification.

Jews and Islamics are not Trinitarian, Christians, generally are Trinitarian. So, in one sense they do not worship the same God.

However, scholars, will generally say that as far as it pertains to what I will call God the Father, they do worship the same God. But, they have a different understanding about the character of God the Father.

[LifeHiscost]

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But, they have a different understanding about the character of God the Father.

Which fact then would eliminate them from salvation of the elect except they repent.

"She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”"John 8:11-12 NKJV

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:12 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Stan]

The God of Islam is the God of Abraham.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The God of Islam is the God of Abraham.

yep, and from Abraham, Jesus is directly, though distantly, related to Mohammed, since Ishmael was approx Mohammed's 67th great grandfather...

[Gustave]

Do you believe that the God of Islam is the same God as the God of Christianity and that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

Not the same God when compared to the Almighty within Orthodox Christianity...

...In Orthodox Christianity Christ was "Eternally" God.

...Who was revealed in the fullness of time.

The Koran teaches that Christ was / is a 'creature' and had he screwed up...

...The real God would have annihilated Christ.

...This is an alien concept according to the Bible.

The Seventh-day Adventist Review and Herald wrote an article about this question...

...On October the 28th, 1909.

...The link is copied below.

"I bear witness that there is no God but God and I bear witness that Mohammad is his slave and his prophet. From the above it must be perfectly clear that Mohammedanism is far from being a heathen religion as some are wont to believe. It teaches believe in God, angels and the prophets, the last day, and the resurrection of the dead. MORE THAN THIS, "About one half of the Koran is a polemic against polytheism and Trinitarianism. In fact the word Allah is an abbreviation of Al-Iah which means the one true only God."

http://docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19091028-V86-43__B.pdf#view=fit

[M. T. Cross]

There seems to be two actual conversations going on here......

One is asking and discussing if the actual being is the same. I am going with Stan on this one - JCI religions and sects all worship the same God. The God of Abraham.

The other conversation is whether all the different JCI religions and sects see and understand him/them the same. Well obviously not otherwise you just have one belief. All SDA's don't even see or understand their deity the same way.

[LifeHiscost]

The truth of the matter, however, do they admit the reality? Cain had the same God as Able but they chose different ways to solve their problems, even as Ishmael chose different ways to solve problems, than Isaac the son of promise.

http://christianityinview.com/xncomparison.html

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The Quran is the final revelation given by Allah to mankind.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:12 KJV

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near."Revelation 1:1-3 NKJV

"Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”"

Revelation 19:9-10 NKJV

SALVATION

By grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). Christianity

Achieved through good works, thus personal righteousness must outweigh personal sin (Quran 23:101-103).

Through good works, prayers and the grace of God. There is no parallel to the Christian view of substitutionary atonement." Judaeism

God cares! Jesus saves!

[hch]

The God of Islam is the God of Abraham.

[LifeHiscost]

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Mohammed did not worship God in Spirit and truth

Politically incorrect to say such but I believe it to be true.

God cares! Jesus save!

[Gregory Matthews]

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According to Webster, heathen people are unacquainted with the true God.

Here is a standard dictionary definition of the word "heathen."

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One who adheres to the religion of a tribe or nation that does not acknowledge the god of Judaism, Christianity or Islam.

[Gregory Matthews]

hch cited EGW as saying:

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Abraham's early teachings had not been without effect upon Ishmael, but the influence of his wives resulted in establishing idolatry in his family... The powerful nation descended from him were a turbulent, heathen people..." {PP 174.1}

That citation leaves out a very important part of what EGW actually said, which is:

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In his later days he repented of his evil ways and returned to his father's god, but the stamp of his character given to his posterity remained.

That is an important part of what EGW Said.

hch then went on to say:

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Abraham's 68th generation grandson, Mohammed was from the branch of the family that was a "heathen people."

Mohammed did not worship God in Spirit and truth.

Yes, Mohammed was from a heathen branch of the family. The history is very clear: Mohammed rejected the heathenism of that branch of the family. He rose up in violent opposition to the idolatry of that branch of his family. Islam is founded upon the principle of a rejection of that heathen idolatry and as Mohammed proclaimed, a return to the worship of the God of Abraham.

Yes, it is true that Mohammed did not understand the true character of the God of Abraham. But, I think that the record is clear that Abraham did not fully understand the nature and character of God and so also we do not fully understand.

But, Mohammed was not a pagan worshiper of idols. He worshiped the God of Abraham even if while lacking some knowledge. You have simply failed to understand Islam and to accurately represent it.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

The God of Islam is the God of Abraham.

Even saying it with authority does not make it so.

...

[M. T. Cross]

I keep seeing people mention that various folks within the Islamic framework do "not understand the true character of God" or that they did not "worship God in spirit or truth" or like comments.

Really?

Do you understand the TRUE character of your God? If you truly do then either you are something beyond human or he is not much of a God, or more likely you are making a really extremely arrogant statement. Each may have a view of the character of your God, but I promise you it is much much more complex than anything one may think they know of him. Trying to simplify it down is IMO really insulting to your God.

As to the "worship God in spirit or truth" bit... really? Not one person alive today sat and worshipped with Mohammed so you really can't say jack about what his spirit or his truth was. Another arrogant self righteous comment.

[Gail]

Yes, Mohammed was from a heathen branch of the family. The history is very clear: Mohammed rejected the heathenism of that branch of the family. He rose up in violent opposition to the idolatry of that branch of his family. Islam is founded upon the principle of a rejection of that heathen idolatry and as Mohammed proclaimed, a return to the worship of the God of Abraham.

Yes, it is true that Mohammed did not understand the true character of the God of Abraham. But, I think that the record is clear that Abraham did not fully understand the nature and character of God and so also we do not fully understand.

But, Mohammed was not a pagan worshiper of idols. He worshiped the God of Abraham even if while lacking some knowledge. You have simply failed to understand Islam and to accurately represent it.

Thank you for this, Gregory! Mohammed's understanding was imperfect; he saw through a glass darkly as we all do. And he was better at withstanding idolatry than the mainstream Christian church at the time.

[Gail]

I am not sure that we are yet under the great ourpouring of the Holy Spirit in the message of the angel of Rev.18, which lightens the whole world. I suspect that we will see many wonderful things then, including perhaps a better understanding of God's character AND a coming together of the true believers from every corner of the globe. The way might not be opened up just yet for the true in heart toward God for the Islamic world, but I have a hunch that they will have a window of opportunity to come forward more than they have freedom to do now.

[Gregory Matthews]

Let us talk about this a bit more:

The heart of Islamic worship is centered on the Kaaba, in the city of Mecca, as is well known by any beginning student of Islam.

Islamic belief is that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, in a place directed by God, and dedicated the Kaaba to the worship of the God of Abraham.

Their belief is that with the passage of time and years after the death of Abraham, a civil ruler transformed the Kaaba into a center of worship of pagan gods. It is believed that by the time of Muhammad, some 360 gods were worshiped in the Kaaba.

Muhammad is given credit for with some violence removing the pagan gods and restoring the worship of the God of Abraham.

See the following:

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At the time of Muhammad (570–632 AD), his tribe, the Quraysh, was in charge of the Kaaba, which was at that time a shrine containing hundreds of idols representing Arabian tribal gods and other religious figures. Muhammad earned the enmity of his tribe by claiming the Kaaba to be dedicated to the worship of Allah alone and by having all the other idols evicted. The Quraysh persecuted and harassed him continuously,. . . so he and his followers eventually migrated to Medina in 622.

With this knowledge, it is utter ignorance to claim that Muhammad was a heathen who worshiped pagan gods.

Certainly, it can be said that Muhammed did not have full knowledge of the nature and character of God. But, the same can be truthfully be said about everyone of us.

It is from this knowledge of Islamic history that it can truthfully be said that Jews, Islamics and Christians worship the same God of Abraham as long as we relate this to God the Father and understand that no one has a perfect, full, understanding of the nature and character of God.

[LifeHiscost]

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Really?

Do you understand the TRUE character of your God? If you truly do then either you are something beyond human or he is not much of a God, or more likely you are making a really extremely arrogant statement. Each may have a view of the character of your God, but I promise you it is much much more complex than anything one may think they know of him. Trying to simplify it down is IMO really insulting to your God.

Interesting that when Jesus made explanation of the character of the Creator, He chose to reveal how simple it was to know Him, whereas those who don't have a personal relationship with Him, make the characterization as to be next to inscrutable.

"Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.

“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father."John 14:9-12 NLT

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. "1 John 4:7-9 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

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If He alone is the God of all the kingdoms of the earth, how can He not be the God of Islam?

That God has given all mankind, freedom of choice. Yes, the Creator is the only God, not only of the follower, but also the rebellious. All are given time to change their mind by the evidence presented, to recognize His sovereignty. When His patience and mercy are satisfied they will never change their mind, the curtain comes down that will establish the reality of their last choice, whether wicked or righteous.

"Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near. Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”

“Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds."Revelation 22:10-12 NLT

God cares!Jesus saves!

[Sojourner]

Mohammed's understanding was imperfect; he saw through a glass darkly as we all do. And he was better at withstanding idolatry than the mainstream Christian church at the time.

I have to say that I do see some parallels there between Mohammed and Martin Luther in their rejection of Catholic Idolatory of religious icons and so forth, that is a good point Gail!

[Gail]

And if it wasn't for the Catholic church being busy with Crusades there may not have been a Reformation.

[LifeHiscost]

And if it wasn't for the Catholic church being busy with Crusades there may not have been a Reformation.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."Romans 8:28 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

Do you understand the TRUE character of your God? ... I promise you it is much much more complex than anything one may think they know of him.

[LifeHiscost]

No I don't understand Him. I don't think it's even possible for us to understand it.

[Samie]

...

In recognizing that Islam knows salvation as something achieved by personal righteous deeds outweighing the unrighteous deeds, just as many other religious organizations do, only those who recognize God as Love can continue to find their way to the feet of the Savior, without Whose shed blood there is no remission of sin.

God saves! So does Jesus!

Remission (or forgiveness) of sin had been benefited by everyone - Adam & Eve and all their descendants - Christians and non-christians alike, whether they know it or not, whether they like it or not, whether they acknowledge it or not.

What the Infinite had for us humans done, can NEVER by any finite mortal be undone.

[Lester]

It is always interesting to listen in on a discussion of this question. There is no question that Muslims don't have a full picture of God. Of course, none of us do; but they do not understand God's story of salvation including the important aspect of "God with us"--Jesus. However, I have come to this conclusion: 1) as has been mentioned, there are lots of distorted views of God even among those who are reaching out to Him. Same God, wrong understanding. Catholics as a group and many individuals in all of Christianity. A Muslim who understands Allah to be the creator God and God of Abraham is in a similar situation in my mind. 2) Since our "job" as Adventists is to show God's Glory to the world in these last days, it seems our work/mission would be to reveal and proclaim God's character, love, and salvation found through Jesus, rather than "label" someone else's understanding. Is that ok?

Muslims don't worship "idols," but I think this quotation's principle applies: "The people of the world are worshiping false gods. They are to be turned from their false worship not by hearing denunciation of their idols, but by beholding something better. God’s goodness is to be made known.” (COL 298,299)