The God of Islam?

[LifeHiscost]

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Remission (or forgiveness) of sin had been benefited by everyone - Adam & Eve and all their descendants - Christians and non-christians alike, whether they know it or not, whether they like it or not, whether they acknowledge it or not.

What the Infinite had for us humans done, can NEVER by any finite mortal be undone.

"But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”"

Joshua 24:15 NIV

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you."James 4:7 NKJV

"“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18 NKJV

"For He says:

“In an acceptable time I have heard you,

And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”

Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation."2 Corinthians 6:2 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Samie]

"God" in different languages:

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Albanian: Perendi

Arabic: Allah

Catalan: Deu

Czech: Buh

Danish:Gud

Dutch: God

English: God

French: Dieu

Finnish: Jumala

German: Gott

Greek: Theos

Hebrew: El

Hungarian: Isten

Indonesian: Allah

Italian: Dio

Latin: Deus

Filipino: Diyos

Norwegian: Gud

Polish: Bog

Portuguese: Deus

Romanian: Dumnezeu

Slovak: Boh

Spanish: Dios

Swedish: Gud

Vietnamese: Dùc Chù a Trôi

Just because the Arabs and Indonesians call Him Allah, their God is not the same God the Hebrews and the Christians worship?

[Gail]

2) Since our "job" as Adventists is to show God's Glory to the world in these last days, it seems our work/mission would be to reveal and proclaim God's character, love, and salvation found through Jesus, rather than "label" someone else's understanding. Is that ok?

Glad you mentioned it. I don't think the intention was to "label" others as much as bring out the point that it is not a matter of right and wrong as much as the angle that we are viewing God from which may be resulting in the differences in our picture of God.

Personally I do believe that all of our seeing will be "darkly, as in a glass," and imperfect, "until that which is perfect is come." And even then, will there ever be a time when we understand fully who God is?

As the best we can do is follow the best what we know and understand, the least we can do is give others the same leeway.

[phkrause]

It is always interesting to listen in on a discussion of this question. There is no question that Muslims don't have a full picture of God. Of course, none of us do; but they do not understand God's story of salvation including the important aspect of "God with us"--Jesus. However, I have come to this conclusion: 1) as has been mentioned, there are lots of distorted views of God even among those who are reaching out to Him. Same God, wrong understanding. Catholics as a group and many individuals in all of Christianity. A Muslim who understands Allah to be the creator God and God of Abraham is in a similar situation in my mind. 2) Since our "job" as Adventists is to show God's Glory to the world in these last days, it seems our work/mission would be to reveal and proclaim God's character, love, and salvation found through Jesus, rather than "label" someone else's understanding. Is that ok?

Muslims don't worship "idols," but I think this quotation's principle applies: "The people of the world are worshiping false gods. They are to be turned from their false worship not by hearing denunciation of their idols, but by beholding something better. God’s goodness is to be made known.” (COL 298,299)

Excellent post Lester very much

[Lester]

Agreed, Gail. "label" was probably not the right word because of its connotations. It sounds like we are on the same page.

[hch]

...our "job" as Adventists is to show God's Glory to the world in these last days, it seems our work/mission would be to reveal and proclaim God's character, love, and salvation found through Jesus, rather than "label" someone else's understanding. Is that ok?

Muslims don't worship "idols," but I think this quotation's principle applies: "The people of the world are worshiping false gods. They are to be turned from their false worship not by hearing denunciation of their idols, but by beholding something better. God’s goodness is to be made known.” (COL 298,299)

Well put.

IMHO

The danger in thinking that Jews and Muslims worship the true God is to think that they do not need to change.

But as I read Revelation, there are only 7 churches and there will always be 7 Churches. Thus when a church or an individual leaves God's fold, He replaces them with another that will obey and follow Him.

Thus to claim to know God is not the same as knowing and obeying God. (no matter what the dictionary says or what people believe) The Jews in Christ's day claimed to be the descendents of Abraham: Jesus was not deceived by their claim.

If Jews Muslims and Christians ALL worshiped the same GOD, it would be good for god-fearing Christians to become Jews or Muslims.

But all roads do not lead to salvation. The more widely accepted the idea that godless religions follow the true God, the more dangerous and deadly they become.

[Gregory Matthews]

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If Jews Muslims and Christians ALL worshiped the same GOD, it would be good for god-fearing Christians to become Jews or Muslims.

Not according to the Bible.

Christ called upon people to worship both in Spirit and in Truth.

Just because one is worshiping the true God does not mean that the worship is in Spirit & in Truth.

[Dr. Waite]

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If Jews Muslims and Christians ALL worshiped the same GOD, it would be good for god-fearing Christians to become Jews or Muslims.

Not according to the Bible.

Christ called upon people to worship both in Spirit and in Truth.

Just because one is worshiping the true God does not mean that the worship is in Spirit & in Truth.

"in Truth"

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Who did Jesus worship? Did he worship a unity of three co-eternal persons? Did he worship himself? Did he worship "GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT" - a separate person from himself and his father? Or did he worship only his Father who was his God and My God?

Who did Jesus say is the "only true God"?

[8thdaypriest]

May I suggest a few resources that really explain the difference.

1. "Two Messiahs" by Jeff Morton - compares the Jesus of Christianity with the Jesus of Islam.

2. "Escape from Darkness" by Daniel Shayesteh - a former radical Muslim reveals the foundation of modern Islamic beliefs and actions.

3. "The Challenge of Islam" with Sam Shamoun (an Arab-Christian) published by ENVOY

Before doing some research, I did not realize that the Muslims are also expecting Christ to return. But they believe that Jesus was only a prophet FOR God. He was not himself God. He should NOT be worshiped. And they place Mohammed ABOVE Jesus, as Allah's prophet.

Under Islam a husband may beat his wife - albeit with a rod no thicker than his thumb. I would want to see the size of any prospective husband's thumb. Muslims believe that women are inherently EVIL, and Hell will be mostly populated by women. Men are taught to fear and distrust all women. They do not feel free to love a wife.

[Felix Florimon]

Response to post 701111 (70-11-11: just a coincidence)

Yes, Mohammed was from a heathen branch of the family. The history is very clear: Mohammed rejected the heathenism of that branch of the family. He rose up in violent opposition to the idolatry of that branch of his family. Islam is founded upon the principle of a rejection of that heathen idolatry and as Mohammed proclaimed, a return to the worship of the God of Abraham.

Yes, it is true that Mohammed did not understand the true character of the God of Abraham. But, I think that the record is clear that Abraham did not fully understand the nature and character of God and so also we do not fully understand.

But, Mohammed was not a pagan worshiper of idols. He worshiped the God of Abraham even if while lacking some knowledge. You have simply failed to understand Islam and to accurately represent it.

[LifeHiscost]

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How frequently we have seen people quoting the teachings of Jesus in order to literally kill “infidels” even if those killing “infidels” need to kill themselves in that process? Why those nations legislating death sentence for those who leave their faith are mostly from Islamic nations? Who is best equipped to really define what Islam stands for: Christians, Secular or atheist individuals who don’t live under a jurisdiction of Sharia Islamic laws? Secular Muslims who don’t feel any burning desire for Islamizing the rest of the world and who live in secular nations? Would not make more sense to define Islam based on how Muslim leaders from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, etc. justify give logistic and financial support to those who use the name of Allah and his well-known prophet to create terror in those that dare say something wrong about Islam no matter which version of Islam is being quoted?

I agree with your logic to a point. However Jesus seemed to feel free to use those His Father (or perhaps even Himself) had chosen to pass the Truth along.

"And he said also unto his disciples....Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."Luke 16:1,29-31 KJV

"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Amos 3:7 KJV

And I would also like to include this text to give emphasis where we can stand for certain when we are uncertain as to the acceptance of where other's beliefs might lead us.

"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”" John 8:31-33 NKJV

"Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”"

John 14:5-7 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

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But they believe that Jesus was only a prophet FOR God. He was not himself God. He should NOT be worshiped. And they place Mohammed ABOVE Jesus, as Allah's prophet.

Correct.

[Gregory Matthews]

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Muslims believe that . . . Hell will be mostly populated by women.

I would be interest in your citing a passage from the Quran to support the above.

I will respond to this myself:

The bottom line is that you will not find that teaching in the Quran. You will find it in the Sahih al-bakhari, which in the oral tradition of the Sunni Islamics.

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Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. These prophetic traditions, or hadith, were collected by the Persian Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari, after being transmitted orally for generations. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the three most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim and Muwatta Imam Malik.[1] In some circles, it is considered the most authentic book after the Quran.[2][3] The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.[4]

So, that is the teaching of one major group. but, it is not the teaching of the other major group.

Perhaps, it would be better to say that some Muslams believe that . . . . Rather than to generalize beyond what is accurate.

What you have done would be the same as if you were to say:

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Christians believe the Mary, the Mother of Jesus now is alive in heaven acting as our intercessor before Christ.

Well, while such a statement would be true for some Christians, it would not be true for the majority of Christians.

In your descriptions of Muslims, you have failed to recognize the differences that exist between the Islamic sects.

[Gregory Matthews]

Islam is a religion that is based upon oral tradition. The Quran is actually a written record of what is oral tradition of what Allah said to Mohammed and the Quran was placed in written form years later. The death of Mohammed occurred about 632 and the Quran began to be placed in written form beginning about in 650.

The Quran is believed to be the actual words that Allah spoke to Mohammed, which of course were in Arabic. From this standpoint, the Quran only exists in Arabic. Allah did not speak to Mohammed in any other language. Therefore it only exists in Arabic.

The Quran is accepted as the actual word of Allah by all Islamic groups. As such, it is accepted as the primary authority for Islamic teachings by all.

However, there are other collections of oral tradition that exist that typically claim to be the teachings of Mohammed. These collections may be accepted by some, but not accepted by others. These collections are generally known as the Hadith.

It should be noted that these are known as the teachings of Mohammed, while the Quran is the teaching of Allah.

One such collection is the Sahih al-Bakhari which is accepted as the teachings of Mohammed by the Sunni group. There are other collections in the Hadith which are accepted by some.

Getting back to the Quran (Which in some languages is transliterated as Koran.) which only exists in Arabic:

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia contains the ancient cities of Mecca and Medina which are holy to all Muslims. As such Saudi Arabia believes that it has been given a special responsibility to maintain the elements of Islam to be open to all believers. This comes from the standpoint that all are expected to travel once to Mecca and Medina. As part of this responsibility, The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd Complex has attempted to make the message of the Quran available to people who do not read Arabic.

They have published such in the English language, which on each page contains the Quran in Arabic, an English translation and a commentary of the meaning of the Arabic. The English version that I have contains more than 2,000 pages, which I have read as it pertains to the English language.

The Quran is organized into what I will call in English, chapters and verses. The version that I have contains an index of subject matter. So, if I want to see what the Quran says about women, I go to the Index and will find the chapters and verses that say something about women. The Index in my book contains some 30 verses in various chapters that speak about women.

This Index is a very brief index and other entries contain comments abut women. E.G. the reference on the need for women to be modest contains comments that are not found in the reference on women in general.

In short, the Quran does not contain the statement about women and hell that is referenced in an earlier comment. That comment comes from an oral tradition that is accepted by the Sunni sect, but not be Islam in general.

[Felix Florimon]

Do you believe that the God of Islam is the same God as the God of Christianity and that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

We need to look into this question from a different angle:

If Muslim and a Christian truly worship God, will God ignore such worship or will God inspire a person worshiping Him into action?

Could a person be worshiping Satan truly believing that he/she is worshiping God?

Now after having prayers to God, when the Parliament of a Muslim nation makes a legislation in order to put to death any Muslim converting to Christianity or when after Friday prayers in a Mosque, a charismatic and zealous Imam is able to get few dozens of devout and prayerful Muslims to take up arms in order to go to Syria, Iraq or Libya with a goal in mind to fight for an “Islamic state,” are those Muslims inspired by the same God teaching Christians to turn the other cheek and to love and pray for their enemies?

The question needs to be paraphrased in the following way: Could any group of people claim to be worshiping God when in fact they are worshiping someone or something very different to God?

FF

[Gregory Matthews]

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So, is the entity "Gabriel" that spoke to Mohammed in the cave the same as the angel "Gabriel" of the Bible?

Different subject.

Different issues--God vs. angel.

Potentially a different answer.

[Gregory Matthews]

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The question needs to be paraphrased in the following way: Could any group of people claim to be worshiping God when in fact they are worshiping someone or something very different to God?

It depends.

Maybe, yes & maybe, no.

There are three (3) MAJOR religious groups that all claim to worship the God of Abraham. Other religions do not make such a claim.

The Hindu does not claim to worship the God of Abraham. That Hindu may (or may not) claim to worship a Christian avatar. But, if such a claim is made that is not the same as claiming to worship the God of Abraham.

IOW, a Himdu might worship Christ as an avatar of Brahman, but such a claim would not be a claim to worship the God of Abraham.

[Gregory Matthews]

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Could a person be worshiping Satan truly believing that he/she is worshiping God?

A person may believe whatever they chose to believe. That choice does not make it reality.

In the Christian sense, a god is not God.

[Gregory Matthews]

There is another issue here that has not been mentioned. This issues: Does the religion of Islam today represent the religion of the Quran and that of Mohammed?

The most successful Christian groups that are working to convert Islamics are those who allege that Christian principles are found in the Quran and they present those basic Christian principles based upon the Quran.

AT the 2010 General Conference a native Arabic speaker had a both in which he present a ministry which attempted to convert Islamics based upon the teachings of the Quran. He was the conversion process as being a series of steps. Little by little he led people to accept some very basic Christian principles, all based upon the Quran. Once he had led them to a better understanding of Christ, he was able to lead them to further understandings outside of the Quran and on to Adventism.

All of this began with the basic Christian teaching that was centered on the God of Abraham.

The God of Abraham is central to Islam. Once you say that Islam does not worship the God of Abraham, you have cut off all communication and any opportunity to bring them to a better understanding.

[Gregory Matthews]

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It's not really a different subject, since the "Gabriel" of the cave provided Mohammed with the revelation of "Allah". This "Allah" is the god of the cave entity "Gabriel".

A very different subject.

The Islamic claim for Gabriel is that of a messenger. A messenger may come from a false god.

[Gregory Matthews]

A discussion of the Hindu gods and goddesses become quite complex and generally beyond my level of knowledge. In any case the issues, while complex are interesting.

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Saraswati is also a prominent figure in Buddhist iconography – the consort of Manjushri.

So, we have Sarawwati who is the consort of Manjaushri in Buddhist thought and of Brahma in Hindu thought.

Well, this just illustrates the connection between Hindu and Buddhist religion.

[Gregory Matthews]

Joe;

A very interesting thought.

[Felix Florimon]

The God of Abraham is central to Islam. Once you say that Islam does not worship the God of Abraham, you have cut off all communication and any opportunity to bring them to a better understanding.

[LifeHiscost]

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when after Friday prayers in a Mosque, a charismatic and zealous Imam is able to get few dozens of devout and prayerful Muslims to take up arms in order to go to Syria, Iraq or Libya with a goal in mind to fight for an “Islamic state,” are those Muslims inspired by the same God teaching Christians to turn the other cheek and to love and pray for their enemies?

The question needs to be paraphrased in the following way: Could any group of people claim to be worshiping God when in fact they are worshiping someone or something very different to God?

Duh! Seems to be a no-brainer.

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And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

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god is not(the concerned Creator) God.

God cares! Jesus saves!