Ellen White & the Trinity

[Gregory Matthews]

The following article will be of interest to those who are interested in how Ellen White related to the Trinity.

 

http://www.atsjats.org/publication_file.php?pub_id=241

[wendys]

Very interesting reading.  This topic is another area that is dividing the church where it need not if the actual history was known.  A big problem is that people are failing to check out the real facts for themselves, or in some instances, ignoring the real facts when they run into them and it conflicts with their previously held assumptions - selective bias occurs then.  This article presents well documented real facts that you can use.

[JimTN]

As I said elsewhere about this topic, the truth about the Trinity was settled by the time Sister White wrote The Desire of Ages. There should be no problem with people understanding and accepting the Trinity -- the Methodist & Kellogg view were WRONG -- today Adventists know what's RIGHT, and it's been settled for over 115 years!

I especially appreciated the text on page 18 of the document wherein Sister White defined the Trinity's unity of "purpose, mind, and character"...

Remember that the entire Universe was created by it being SPOKEN INTO EXISTENCE -- "words" always follow what is in the MIND -- and what an awesome thing to think upon, THE MIND OF GOD, and how that MIND was in total unity among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

[Smurf]

Thank You for this!

[8thdaypriest]

Thank you Gregory, for that article. 

It explained the process clearly.

I am confirmed - once again - that I must see proof from the Bible. 

[8thdaypriest]

Question:

 

Are Seventh-day Adventists unique in their Tri-Theism, as opposed to monotheistic Trinitarianism?? 

 

Are there other denominations that believe God is three divine Beings, or is this a distinct Adventist doctrine? 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel asked:

 

 

 

Are Seventh-day Adventists unique in their Tri-Theism, as opposed to monotheistic Trinitarianism??

 

Individual SDA members often sound like Tri-Theists, and that may be how they think.  As I have said, this doctrine in complex, and  most, to include me do not fully understand it.

 

However, as to official SDA doctrine, SDAs are not Tri-Theists.

 

SDA doctrine proclaims one triune God which has a plurality of three persons within that Godhead.  While some might accuse me of playing with words, that position is not a Tri-Theistic position.  My statement here is based upon page 22 of the 17 FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS.  You will find my reference point (I did not quote exactly.) in Chapter 2, "The Godhead."

 

I assume that you will find the same in the 28 FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS, which, I believe, is on the Internet.

[8thdaypriest]

Gregory,

 

Monotheists believe that God is ONE Divine Being, who manifests in three ways - or as three persons.

 

SDAs are NOT monotheists.  They actually believe there ARE three divine persons, who co-operate together for one purpose. 

 

So if SDAs are NOT Tritheists - what would you call them?

 

I have not heard of another denomination which teaches that God is actually three individual persons, with three personalities. 

[Guest DennisKean]

Gregory,

Triunity is a Roman Catholic doctrine.  Triunity implies one essence with three expressions.  EGW meant what she said that there are three distinct members in the Godhead.  

 

As regards those who refer to the expression "Israel, YAHWEH your Gods are one" the objections of the monotheists is that God meant to say that He is just one God, while other pagan imagined gods are many.  That idea has aged and faded away.  What God was trying to say with the word "One" was that in the Three members of the Godhead there is unity.  Pagan gods all have different doctrines and one god requires this kind of worship, whale the other one is at cross purpose with him.  The disunity betrays that the pagan gods are human inventions and humans design their gods as per their own wishes.  With our God unity is so well settled that God calls His team as being one.  It is the same expression as God's idea of marriage.  A man and a woman become one.  We know that they are still two distinct persons, but marriage is meant for them to seek unity in purpose as God has with His own.

The distraction, which monotheists have been harassing the Trinitarians with, is irrelevant.  It bears no weight on the subject in this light.

 

Dennis

[Guest DennisKean]

And concerning the unity of our God, which is referred to being as "ONE" here is the counterpart.

• Gen_2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

And there are other instances of this useage.

• Rev 17:13  These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
• Jer_32:39  And I will give themone heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Do they have one mind?  Will all God's people have just one heart for the whole population?  Of course not...
 
 
Dennis

Edited October 12, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
overuse of large font... Overuse of bold, all caps, large font, etc. is the cyber equivalent of shouting. No need to shout. We can "hear" you just fine.

[Sojourner]

I have not heard of another denomination which teaches that God is actually three individual persons, with three personalities. 

 

This is doctrine no 3 of the Salvation Army, 

"We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead-the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory".

 

My understanding is that this is a view held by both the SDA and the Salvation Army Doctrinally? 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel:   You description of monotheists is partially correct.  Monotheists do believe that there is one god,  Some believe that God manifests in three different ways.   Others, do not believe that.  They may believe that God manifests only in one way.

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel, you asked me what I would call the God that I described.  I have already answered that.  I would call God a Triune God.  A Triune God is NOT a tri-theistic god.  There is a difference.

 

 

For more on this, you may want to check out the following URL.  NOTE: I do not agree withe every posisiton that this group has taken as to Biblical teachings.  However, on the subject of a Triune God, they have said it well.

 

https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/the-trinity/god-is-triune/

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel, Dennis Keane has said something of value in his 2nd paragraph.

[Gregory Matthews]

One of the things that I do is to take complex theological statements and to re-state the in very simply terms.  I have hesitated to do this in our discussion of the Trinity, but, I have decided that I will do so:

 

I have a rope.  It has three separate strands.  They are united together into one rope:  One rope with three strands.  Each of the three strands is identical.

[8thdaypriest]

Thank you Gregory, and others - for your explanations. 

 

I do not believe as you do, but it is good to understand where you are coming from. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel:

 

My mission in life is not to convert you to my set of beliefs.  In my thinking, the Holy Spirit is your spiritual guide and teacher.

 

But, I am willing to dialogue with you and if better communication and understanding can be established, this is good.

[JimTN]

Dingdong wrote: >>What about those 'adventist" pictures of the second coming? Very Arian......only Jesus coming back to get us (without showing either God the Father or the Holy Spirit)?<<

I've always wondered how the 2nd Coming could start in the distance as "a small black cloud about half the size of a man's hand"...(Great Controversy pg640)...

Then it occurred to me that if God the Father was BEHIND Jesus and the cloud of angels, the cloud would appear back lit! Thus the cloud might appear dark, with the brightest light behind it...?

Remember, it's seeing God the Father that can kill us, so maybe Jesus and the angels are out in front "blocking our view" until the Redeemed are translated into their perfect bodies?....

[Gregory Matthews]

I do declare:  We have posters who are dabbling in Rorschach theory!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I do declare:  We have posters who are dabbling in Rorschach theory!

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Many years ago, I read a book about subliminal perception of embedded images in advertising media.  [NOTE:  It was probably a 1974 book by Wilson Bryon Key, but I am not certain.]  I became an expert (in my mind) at seeing embedded images in advertising.

 

Then, one Sabbath I looked at the cover of the bulletin and I saw embedded in the painting, by a SDA artist, of a religious theme dear to members, an erotic image.

 

With that observation, I became convinced that what I was reading in the book was supposition, unsupported by science.  I gave it up.

 

Previous posts have reminded me of those past events in my  life.

[8thdaypriest]

This is doctrine no 3 of the Salvation Army, 

"We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead-the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory".

 

My understanding is that this is a view held by both the SDA and the Salvation Army Doctrinally? 

 

What does "in essence" mean?  Sounds like just another way of saying that God is one essence, who manifests as three. 

[8thdaypriest]

Let me give you a little history - where my belief concerning the Godhead is concerned. 

 

Back about 1990, a dear friend of mine came to believe that God is NOT a Trinity.  Well, I was absolutely determined to set her right.  That is when I began my search thru all the published writings of Ellen White.  My friend was a strong believer in her prophetic gift, so I thought I could show her EGW quotes and that would be the end of it. 

 

I found the progression of Mrs White's understanding, from just One Being, who beget a Son (a second Being) to "three Beings of the heavenly Trio".   I ended up like a Muslim, trying to decide whether to follow the earlier writings or the later writings.  That is when I began my search of Scripture. 

 

I decided to read straight thru the NT, noting every passage that had anything to say about the nature of God - as One Being or Two or Three.   I just wanted to KNOW the truth. 

 

I noted the references on legal pads - one pad each for One Being, or Two Beings, or Three Beings.

 

I ended up with a whole stack of legal pads for Two Divine Beings - Father and Son. 

I almost filled one legal pad with references for One Divine Being. 

I only had part - like six legal pages - of references which suggested Three Divine Beings. 

 

So it became obvious where the weight of the evidence was tending. 

 

Then I began reading commentaries like mad, looking at those references which suggested Three. 

 

Where I ended up, after some six years of study, is obvious to you here on this forum. 

I AM still open to a change of opinion, but so far, no one has shown me reason from Scripture to believe that my God is three coequal Divine Beings. 

 

Question: 

When Jesus addressed His Father or spoke of His Father, was Christ speaking of one divine Being - "God the Father" - the "One who sits on the throne" ? 

Or was He speaking of the two other divine Beings? 

 

Respectfully,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel asked:

 

 

What does "in essence" mean?  Sounds like just another way of saying that God is one essence, who manifests as three.

 

Rachel, in the creed, the intent of the word "essence" is to say that the constituent nature (substance) of each member of the Godhead was exactly the same.
 

It was not intended to say anything about a God manifesting in three.  That idea was condemned by the early church.

 

It is not my intent to say that the Creeds are correct.  It is not my intent to say that all actions of Church councils were correct.

 

Rather, I am simply telling you what the word "essence" meant to the people who used it in the creed, as can be documented in Church History.

[Guest DennisKean]

One of the things that I do is to take complex theological statements and to re-state the in very simply terms.  I have hesitated to do this in our discussion of the Trinity, but, I have decided that I will do so:

 

I have a rope.  It has three separate strands.  They are united together into one rope:  One rope with three strands.  Each of the three strands is identical.

 

 

Very good definition.  The only tiny element you might want to accentuate is to state that the three ropes are distinct from one another, useable on their own.  The three persons in the Godhead have each a distinct function. 

1. The Son is charged with Justification. 
2. The Holy Spirit is deals with Sanctification
3. The Father is in charge of the compliance to the Law

In their functions they each perform their specialty on their own.

 

That way, it is clear that their personality is distinct, concurrent and independent.

 

Dennis .