LifeHiscost Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 But when God's dietary laws are tossed out as if they do not matter, it is easier to throw out other instructions that are equally important or more so. A selected messages mentality picks and chooses personal preferences. Judging from recent programming featuring personal testimonies, that is where many of us start out. Where we end up reveals whether that is a problem in our lives. 8Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 9The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.....Philippians 4 God is Love! Jesus saves! hch 1 Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Stan Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 //we have no reason to believe the gays in Sodom and Gomorrah we getting married and adopting children. So it is quite possible they were very narcissistic//We have no reason to believe the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were gay at all. We know they were indiscriminate rapists, we don't know anything about whether any of them were gay by orientation, or the kinds of gay people who might like to marry each other. You're drawing a long, long bow on very flimsy evidence, Shane. I think gay people are people: with all the vices and virtues of people, and probably distributed in about the same ratios. hch - right: you skip the prawns and oysters, but do you also skip haircuts and shaving and wearing clothes woven from mixed fibres? All those things are in that couple of chapters too. Here's an interesting one from Leviticus 19:33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself,for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.How do *you* feel about 'illegals'? There you go, reading your Bible again, some people here may not tolerate that. Naomi, hch and D. Allan 3 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
LifeHiscost Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 There you go, reading your Bible again, some people here may not tolerate that. Busted!!!!! God is Love! Jesus saves! Naomi 1 Quote Lift Jesus up!!
D_Bishop Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 There was this guy I knew when we were in school. He was a big strong, muscular black guy. He was a Senior when I was a freshman. His name is David. Everybody liked David. He could do it all, he had it all. He was outgoing, charming, charismatic, athletic. He was a star on the football field and on the basketball court. He was good at track and field as well. He could speak. He could act. He was well liked and thought of by blacks and whites. And he was and is gay. Everybody knew it. We all liked him so much we overlooked it. I haven't seen David in decades. I do keep in touch with him via Facebook, along with scores of other people from my hometown. Reading between the lines I think he is in a relationship with a guy. I'm thinking they probably are married, but I am not sure. Whenever some sort of LGBT issue comes up in the news I think of David, and what he would say. I am sure if I went home and looked him up it would not take long to get him to give candid responses to the issues at hand. D. Allan 1 Quote
DreamWeaver Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 What is your position on homosexuality? The biblical one. Its a sin. Do you believe homosexuals can change as stated in the video? Yes. Anyone can change for Christ if they honestly want to. Some people can change completely and enter into a godly relationship. Some people have to battle the sin day by day and choose to remain single for the Lord's sake. hch 1 Quote
CoAspen Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 What is your position on homosexuality? The biblical one. Its a sin. Do you believe homosexuals can change as stated in the video? Yes. Anyone can change for Christ if they honestly want to. Some people can change completely and enter into a godly relationship. Some people have to battle the sin day by day and choose to remain single for the Lord's sake. You might want to read what you wrote and clarify your statement.The Bible doesn't declare being a homosexual as any more of a sinner than a heterosexual. There are certain practices declared to be sin for both. Your statement about change "if they honestly want to" is at the least presumptuous and they way it reads very judgmental. JoeMo and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) CoAspen, I always enjoy your input.... rarely do I find straights know what they are talking about when this topic comes up. "if they honestly WANT TOooo!" -Dreamweaver?I will school you all here folks! For up teem generations when most male gays realize they are gay they want to die and maybe later (in the church realm) entertain to cut off body parts. (some have done that) Oh to Do anything to be straight! When it comes to ignorant statements on this topic I usually stay quiet. I have to be quiet alot here. God changes us with willingness. In most Cases GOD does not change them in ways people think they oughta change. Get used to it! . meanwhile ...God is trying to change many Christian's hearts toward Homosexuals. That is not easy and We know what it looks like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is your position on homosexuality? The biblical one. Its a sin. Do you believe homosexuals can change as stated in the video? Yes. Anyone can change for Christ if they honestly want to. Some people can change completely and enter into a godly relationship. Some people have to battle the sin day by day and choose to remain single for the Lord's sake. You might want to read what you wrote and clarify your statement.The Bible doesn't declare being a homosexual as any more of a sinner than a heterosexual. There are certain practices declared to be sin for both. Your statement about change "if they honestly want to" is at the least presumptuous and they way it reads very judgmental. Edited July 6, 2015 by GayatfootofCross D. Allan 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
B/W Photodude Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 One more time: the sins of Sodom were primarily (as stated in the Bible) in their treatment of the vulnerable and poor, not homosexuality. Certainly America has much to fear if it is to be called to account for those particular sins. I have seen this sentiment posted before, that Sodom & Gomorrah was all about the poor and their mistreatment. When someone actually posts a Bible text for this idea, it is Ezekial 16:49. However, it seems to be out of a long discourse on Sodom and conveniently misses the texts around it. So, for context, here is a few more texts to consider: Ezekial 16: 47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. 48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. Such is the problem sometimes with pulling out a single verse and hoping no one checks it out further and gets the whole idea being presented. And do keep in mind that the references to Sodom are in the midst of a long discourse against the whorish behavior of Jerusalem. DreamWeaver 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
LifeHiscost Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 . meanwhile ...God is trying to change many Christian's hearts toward Homosexuals. That is not easy and We know what it looks like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see any respect whatsoever for what God asks of those who see His Word as important to heed. Only an self-justification to make of none effect the penalty for those who practice such things because everyone is a sinner and deserves the same thing. 13If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.....Leviticus 20 Only repentance and a turning away from the detestable act will bring the grace of Jesus to the sinner, no matter how it became entrenched in our lives. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.....1 John 1 "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39"For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."…Acts 2 God is Love! Jesus saves! DreamWeaver 1 Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Bravus Posted July 6, 2015 Moderators Posted July 6, 2015 I have seen this sentiment posted before, that Sodom & Gomorrah was all about the poor and their mistreatment. When someone actually posts a Bible text for this idea, it is Ezekial 16:49. However, it seems to be out of a long discourse on Sodom and conveniently misses the texts around it. So, for context, here is a few more texts to consider: Ezekial 16: 47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. 48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. Such is the problem sometimes with pulling out a single verse and hoping no one checks it out further and gets the whole idea being presented. And do keep in mind that the references to Sodom are in the midst of a long discourse against the whorish behavior of Jerusalem. What you've done there is to *assume*, without any evidence from the text and in the face of the context, that 'abominations' means 'homosexuality'. I'd argue that, in context, 'abominations' refer to the treatment of the poor and vulnerable. D. Allan and CoAspen 2 Quote Truth is important
GayatfootofCross Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Oh by the way..no Offense to Dreamweaver regarding the comment I focused on. I don't know DreamWeaver. And I was focused on my own pain in that thought all my life. Focused on that echoing thought that haunt the Devil's playground. ..it is not about you personally. Forgive me, DreamWeaver. Blessings! Oh. Hi, GayatfootofCross. "if they honestly want to" Edited July 6, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
B/W Photodude Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 What you've done there is to *assume*, without any evidence from the text and in the face of the context, that 'abominations' means 'homosexuality'. I'd argue that, in context, 'abominations' refer to the treatment of the poor and vulnerable. Nice try! You may have to go read the entire chapter to see that much of the sins of Jerusalem had to due with whoring and fornication with the other nations. Little of the chapter had to do with the poor. No matter what excuse you come up with, the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were committing gross sexual sins. (I am guessing we may start hearing how heterosexuals commit fornication, now!) Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
DreamWeaver Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 I agree, LifeHiscost. God is stronger than your sins and if you desire to be set free He will know your heart and assist you if you repent and make an active effort to turn away from your sins. For example, if you're addicted to watching pornography on the web, get a filter. DO something about what sin you're struggling with. Eventually the urge to run to that sin for pleasure will decrease and even if you have to struggle within yourself until Jesus returns, you with be strengthen by God to see through His eyes why the sin is wrong and you will have a heart that the Holy Spirit can work with in order to transform you little by little until one day you are translated into a new being for the New Jerusalem! NO ONE can fight their sin alone. So it is true that it is beyond us to take care of the matter ourselves. However...if you study the bible with a love for the truth and behold Jesus you will realize that as long as Jesus intercedes for us, we have hope and help to choose whether we want to live a life with or without God included in it. And ultimately someday our decisions will be made plain by where we end up when everything is said and done. What you've done there is to *assume*, without any evidence from the text and in the face of the context, that 'abominations' means 'homosexuality'. I'd argue that, in context, 'abominations' refer to the treatment of the poor and vulnerable. Bravus, maybe you have missed Leviticus 20:13. It says clearly that it is an abomination to have sex with a man if you are a man. And it is written in Genesis that that's what the Sodomites and the Gammorians did. If mistreatment of the poor and vulnerable was all He smote them for, then our whole planet should have been visited by Jesus ages ago. Quote
hch Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Could have something to do with the title of the thread. When asked about the popularity of sex, one of Johnnie Carson's guest once mused, "That's because it's so centrally located." But isn't there a Scripture that said there are some things that are too shameful to even mention them? GayatfootofCross 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
GayatfootofCross Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 When asked about the popularity of sex, one of Johnnie Carson's guest once mused, "That's because it's so centrally located." But isn't there a Scripture that said there are some things that are too shameful to even mention them? Yes! GBU! hch, amen ..... Also what we think of People! BINGO! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
bonnie Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Jude 1:7 doesnt say anything about the poor and vulnerable as I remember. As important as tsking care of those two groups is, is that all Sodom and Gomorrah was all about? DreamWeaver 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
hch Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 What is your position on homosexuality? The biblical one. Its a sin. Do you believe homosexuals can change as stated in the video? Yes. Anyone can change for Christ if they honestly want to. Some people can change completely and enter into a godly relationship. Some people have to battle the sin day by day and choose to remain single for the Lord's sake. Even sinners can be likable and even liked. Even I have a few friends. Luke 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." It's not my job to point out who's the biggest sinner (straight or gay). I'm supposed to point folks to JESUS. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
GayatfootofCross Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Even sinners can be likable and even liked. Even I have a few friends. Luke 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." It's not my job to point out who's the biggest sinner (straight or gay). I'm supposed to point folks to JESUS. it is all about JESUS! everytime! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
hch Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 it is all about JESUS! everytime! So true, but lest we forget. JESUS is very particular. "Confession will not be acceptable to God without sincere repentance and reformation. There must be decided changes in the life; everything offensive to God must be put away. This will be the result of genuine sorrow for sin. The work that we have to do on our part is plainly set before us: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:16, 17. " {SC 39.1} GayatfootofCross 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
DreamWeaver Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) People always love to stuff words in my mouth when I speak on this subject. Since when did I ever say that homosexuals are the biggest sinners? Can't I answer this thread's primary questions without being accused of stuff? And also, while we're on the subject, there are varying degrees of sin in the bible. I may not have every drop of information in the bible to tell you in what order certain sins are in relation to each other, but some sins are greater than others. And homosexuality is in some ways higher up than some other sins. Please don't take offense, but its true folks. In fact, one reason why it's probably a bigger sin than some, is because its such a stubborn one to remove from the sinner. Its deeply rooted in a lot of things that may seem unrelated but those things all tie together to create a distorted picture of who God is. Edited July 6, 2015 by DreamWeaver Quote
DreamWeaver Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Oh by the way..no Offense to Dreamweaver regarding the comment I focused on. I don't know DreamWeaver. And I was focused on my own pain in that thought all my life. I accept your apology. I just don't feel like getting a literal headache when I notice certain behavior in people's replies. That's why I don't bother arguing any more beyond what I feel the need to say. Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 I accept your apology. I just don't feel like getting a literal headache when I notice certain behavior in people's replies. That's why I don't bother arguing any more beyond what I feel the need to say. Thank you! DreamWeaver! BTW the 'get used to it' comment is not meant as snarky. But.... as practical advice regarding meeting people where they are. How long can I sanely loathe myself without it becoming self sabotage/destruction? It is better to get used it. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
GayatfootofCross Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 “Whenever the church, consciously or unconsciously, caters to one class it loses the spiritual force of the “whosoever will, let him come” doctrine, and is in danger of becoming little more than a social club with a thin veneer of religiosity." - MLK, Jr. Dr. Shane 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Dr. Shane Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 The belief that homosexuality was practiced in Sodom comes from a combination of the story of the men wanting to have sex with the angels and the verse in Jude stating that they went after strange flesh. As the link I posted previously stated, strange flesh can also be fornication, It is an academic exercise because the Biblical condemnation for homosexuality does not rest on the sin of Sodom. The heaviest condemnation comes from Romans, 1 Corinthians and Timothy. It is seems apparent from the story in Genesis that homosexuality was certainly one of the sins of Sodom. Like most sin, homosexuality is weaved together with many other sins. A liar is not normally just guilty of lying nor is a thief normally just guilty of stealing. Sin is terribly destructive in our lives, families and societies. This is why those involved in 12-step recovery programs do a personal inventory so they can see the impact all of their character defects have on those they interact with. Yes, there were homosexuals in Sodom. We know that from the story. We also know that those living in Sodom had a wealth of food and neglected to help the poor. What we don't know is if those two sins were related to each other which is simply an academic matter and not one that would determine a religious doctrine. Naomi 1 Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 6, 2015 Administrators Posted July 6, 2015 Part of the problem with this "abomination = homosexual behavior" is that it is taking a roof texting approach that ignores how the would abomination (really Hebrew and Greek words translated as such) is used throughout Scripture. There are numerous things that are described as an abomination. Homosexual behavior is not all by itself as an abomination. Do a word search to see how frequently it is used and look at the context in each case. GayatfootofCross and D. Allan 2 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
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