Moderators John317 Posted July 6, 2015 Moderators Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) By God's grace and the power of the Holy Spirit in the life, anyone-- whether homosexual or heterosexual-- can overcome their sins. However, one thing is for certain: If sinners don't realize they're sinning, they won't repent and seek God's power to overcome their sins. On the contrary, they will go right on sinning, persuaded that they're doing all right-- until it's too late. Edited July 6, 2015 by John317 GayatfootofCross, DreamWeaver, phkrause and 2 others 5 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 6, 2015 Moderators Posted July 6, 2015 ...... I'm far from convinced homosexual actions and orientations are sinful.... The Bible doesn't say anything about "orientation," but it certainly has something clear to say about homosexual behavior. The Scriptures definitely condemn all immorality as sinful, and sexual relations between members of the same gender is included among the immortal behaviors. Jesus Christ shows us that it is sinful even to desire those things. We aren't doing gays any favor by telling them that homosexual relations are not sinful. DreamWeaver, phkrause and Naomi 3 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Administrators debbym Posted July 6, 2015 Administrators Posted July 6, 2015 I have seen this sentiment posted before, that Sodom & Gomorrah was all about the poor and their mistreatment. When someone actually posts a Bible text for this idea, it is Ezekial 16:49. However, it seems to be out of a long discourse on Sodom and conveniently misses the texts around it. So, for context, here is a few more texts to consider: Ezekial 16: 47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. 48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. Such is the problem sometimes with pulling out a single verse and hoping no one checks it out further and gets the whole idea being presented. And do keep in mind that the references to Sodom are in the midst of a long discourse against the whorish behavior of Jerusalem. when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats In Matthew 25 he says, "34 Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me." Jesus identifies himself with the suffering, those whose needs are neglected. It is an abomination to live in plenty and do nothing for those who are destitute and perish for want of what you have laying around. He did not say, " away from me, you homosexuals." He did say "He that cometh to me i will in no wise cast out." Any sin is abomination, lying, stealing, adultery, disregard for your parents, wanton disregard for the lives of others, jealousy, hatred, murder, idolatry, selfishness, neglect of your salvation. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
DreamWeaver Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Some of you will get upset with me for saying this, but... There are people on this thread who seem to be under the delusion that you can read the bible and get the correct context without the help of the Holy Spirit. Some of you are using human logic and skepticism to shine a false light ahead for yourselves. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 6, 2015 Members Posted July 6, 2015 Some of you will get upset with me for saying this, but... There are people on this thread who seem to be under the delusion that you can read the bible and get the correct context without the help of the Holy Spirit. Some of you are using human logic and skepticism to shine a false light ahead for yourselves. probably would be better to discuss the topic, rather than the people who post in it... just sayin'... GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
stinsonmarri Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Some of you will get upset with me for saying this, but... There are people on this thread who seem to be under the delusion that you can read the bible and get the correct context without the help of the Holy Spirit. Some of you are using human logic and skepticism to shine a false light ahead for yourselves. Amen! First I have never heard of such nonsense sin is sin. The first two parents were put out of their home for one sin. ELOHIM made it perfectly clear if you eat the fruit of this tree they would certainly die. The problem you all do not see is that all sin has to do with appetite or desires. We all are born in sin and realize that it is wrong even when are babes and do understand almost anything. It is within us and if we do something we look at our parents to see if they are looking as a child! The problem is the act and that is oral sex as well. Now many of you don't want to hear that who are heterosexual here read what Paul said about the act or desire: Because that, when they knew ELOHIM, they glorified THEM not as ELOHIM, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed THE GLORY of the uncorruptible ELOHIM into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore ELOHIM also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of ELOHIM into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than THE CREATORS, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause ELOHIM gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain ELOHIM in their knowledge, ELOHIM gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:21-28 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7 YAHSHUA gave us a warning that when this be accepted prepare for HIS second coming and it appears that most are not prepared! Do we have a right to disrespect anyone no!!! Every one must make their own choice and the government here on earth is not ELOHIM'S government. This country is the two headed beast or the false prophet have we forgot! If anyone act like animals it is because you are what you eat and what you lust after that goes for both heterosexual or homosexual! I would hire a person base on the job requirement not his sexual orientation. However, I could not marry or participate in any type of ceremony that goes against ELOHIM! My home is my castle and I ask for respect, I would not turn anybody away! But there are things you cannot do in my castle. Finally I would like to leave all this Text: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I YAHWEH thy ELOHE am a jealous ELOHIM, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate ME; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love ME, and keep MY Commandments. Exo 20:5, 6 Blessings! Edited July 6, 2015 by stinsonmarri Quote
bonnie Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Many of you keep replying as if it has been suggested that a homosexual should be shunned,condemned or maybe stoned. No one opposed to "gay marriage" has even come close to that.So why is that always thrown in there ? Anyone should be welcomed in our churches with the same respect you show the most respected member of the congregation. constitutional right. Even Justice Keagen in her confirmation hearings said No there is not constitutional right. He did not say, " away from me, you homosexuals." He did say "He that cometh to me i will in no wise cast out." What will those living a homosexual lifestyle when Christ returns hear? Will it be the same as the thief,liar etc. Our will Christ in no wise cast them out? Is caring for the poor and destitute all that is required of us? I have known a man,raised SDA for many years. very successful and wealthy High functioning alcoholic,gambles has complete disregard for the sabbath,cusses like a sailor and is extremely generous to those in need. He has helped to educate many students in our schools,very generous with food shelves and soup kitchens,helps many families privately that are struggling. So will God wink at all that and say Well Done,you have taken care of the poor,enter? It is an abomination to live in plenty and do nothing for those who are destitute and perish for want of what you have laying around. As it is an abomination to live a homosexual lifestyle,but for some reason many seem reluctant to admit that is so Any sin is abomination, lying, stealing, adultery, disregard for your parents, wanton disregard for the lives of others, jealousy, hatred, murder, idolatry, selfishness, neglect of your salvation. No one has disagreed with that,Is living a homosexual lifestyle as much of an abomination as say adultery. Is anyone being asked to ignore or make them of lesser importance if you feed the poor Edited July 6, 2015 by bonnie Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
D_Bishop Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 The question ' what is my opinion on homosexuals' is an odd question. They exist. My opinion will not change anything. This is like a trap question. If I lean too far to the left or right I will be judged. So I am somewhere in the middle. Quote
bonnie Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I think the term homosexuality was meant to indicate the lifestyle rather than the orientation. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
D_Bishop Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 The lifestyle, the orientation they both exist. I am not ready to listen to an openly gay pastor preach to me. It may come to that. Also, watching to gay people hugging one another in church would be disconcerting. Gays have always been in church, but they were discreet. Naomi 1 Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The lifestyle, the orientation they both exist. I am not ready to listen to an openly gay pastor preach to me. It may come to that. Also, watching to gay people hugging one another in church would be disconcerting. Gays have always been in church, but they were discreet. It takes a lot of discipline and deception ... to keep all that fabulousness discreet! # well ..as long as the Church is comfortable.... ............... Thank you for your thoughts. D_Bishop! GBU! Yes Gays were always a sweet part of Church. God Bless You All! Edited July 7, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
stinsonmarri Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) No one should be shun at our churches and should be given love. But as you show all have sin that includes us all! Anyone without sin cast the first stone. In my home a person who was an a homosexual needed a place to stay. This person grew up with my grandchildren and they nor me look at him any different. When he return home he had changed and he share with me his experiences. He was raised in the church but left as some of my grandchildren have done. One is not married and lives with his lady friend who I adore. Both of these youth are doing things they were taught were not in tune with ELOHIM. However, both know my stand and have respected me. Did I talked to both about their choices, yes I have! But you don't pound them and shun them, just love them. You pray for them and leave it in the POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT! In my youth I fail short and left the church and did things I am not happy about. My mother prayed for me and I return due to prayer. I, would you believe, used to deal in drugs before crack came out!!!! So the pot cannot talk about the kettle. What the pot does is get clean and live by example! Sin is sin but take heed with love and warning, no type of sin will make it into the Kingdom of ELOHIM! You can seemed to make it ok, or talk nice about it does not change that homosexual will not make it in as a liar, backbiter, adulterer, fornicator. smoker, drinker, dope dealer, dope taker, Sabbath breaker, unclean meat eater, trinity believer, counterfeiting ELOHIM'S NAMES and that THEY are THREE SUPREME INDIVIDUAL BEINGS and the sins goes on and on!!!!!! Get the sin out of you life before you try to move the sins out of others! Blessings! Edited July 7, 2015 by stinsonmarri debbym 1 Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 No one should be shun at our churches and should be given love. But as you show all have sin that includes us all! Anyone without sin cast the first stone. In my home a person who was an a homosexual needed a place to stay. This person grew up with my grandchildren and they nor me look at him any different. When he return home he had changed and he share with me his experiences. He was raised in the church but left as some of my grandchildren have done. One is not married and lives with his lady friend who I adore. Both of these youth are doing things they were taught were not in tune with ELOHIM. However, both know my stand and have respected me. Did I talked to both about their choices, yes I have! But you don't pound them and shun them, just love them. You pray for them and leave it in the POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT! In my youth I fail short and left the church and did things I am not happy about. My mother prayed for me and I return due to prayer. I, would you believe, used to deal in drugs before crack came out!!!! So the pot cannot talk about the kettle. What the pot does is get clean and live by example! Sin is sin but take heed with love and warning, no type of sin will make it into the Kingdom of ELOHIM! You can seemed to make it ok, or talk nice about it does not change that homosexual will not make it in as a liar, backbiter, adulterer, fornicator. smoker, drinker, dope dealer, dope taker, Sabbath breaker, unclean meat eater, trinity believer, counterfeiting ELOHIM'S NAMES and that THEY are THREE SUPREME INDIVIDUAL BEINGS and the sins goes on and on!!!!!! Get the sin out of you life before you try to move the sins out of others! Blessings! Well I think our convictions of sin does very to each individual. We cannot compel the conscience. Nice to meet you, stinsonmarri. GBU! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Administrators debbym Posted July 7, 2015 Administrators Posted July 7, 2015 He did not say, " away from me, you homosexuals." He did say "He that cometh to me i will in no wise cast out." What will those living a homosexual lifestyle when Christ returns hear? Will it be the same as the thief,liar etc. Our will Christ in no wise cast them out? Is caring for the poor and destitute all that is required of us? I have known a man,raised SDA for many years. very successful and wealthy High functioning alcoholic,gambles has complete disregard for the sabbath,cusses like a sailor and is extremely generous to those in need. He has helped to educate many students in our schools,very generous with food shelves and soup kitchens,helps many families privately that are struggling. So will God wink at all that and say Well Done,you have taken care of the poor,enter? The Holy Spirit convicts people of sin and provides grace at the same time. I am not God, i cannot convict anyone of sin and provide grace. My voice is not the voice of God. i can be about the business of pointing out everyone's sins as far as i believe and it will do neither me nor anyone else any good. i cannot provide any grace or forgiveness. i cannot measure anyone else's relationship to God. Just because i see something doesn't mean other's see it, just because i say something to them. i know God loves and speaks to everyone personally and He alone can judge, so i leave all that to God. What God requires of me is to love Him and to be like Him in all my associations as He empowers me. sometimes it involves providing for those in need, hungry, or without shelter, sometimes it is something else. God has not asked me to point our anyone's sins. God is able to do that work and offer full grace and power and love for the sinner, and this i cannot do. CoAspen 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
bonnie Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 The Holy Spirit convicts people of sin and provides grace at the same time. I am not God, i cannot convict anyone of sin and provide grace. My voice is not the voice of God. i can be about the business of pointing out everyone's sins as far as i believe and it will do neither me nor anyone else any good. i cannot provide any grace or forgiveness. i cannot measure anyone else's relationship to God. Just because i see something doesn't mean other's see it, just because i say something to them. i know God loves and speaks to everyone personally and He alone can judge, so i leave all that to God. What God requires of me is to love Him and to be like Him in all my associations as He empowers me. sometimes it involves providing for those in need, hungry, or without shelter, sometimes it is something else. God has not asked me to point our anyone's sins. God is able to do that work and offer full grace and power and love for the sinner, and this i cannot do. I don't believe anyone asked or suggested that. What has been stated is that anyone opposing the legalizing of gay marriage is doing so. Anyone that opposes gay marriage is painted as victimizing homosexuals. No one has disagreed with ... sometimes it involves providing for those in need, hungry, or without shelter, sometimes it is something else. God has not asked me to point our anyone's sins. No one has suggested before you are willing to help someone or welcome them you first find out if they are gay/lesbian. Nor if you know they are to barr them from your home or church. That seems to be your take on it. A homosexual lifestyle is as wrong as adultery,stealing lying or any other sin you can name.Not more ,not less. However those sins were not passed into law as just and a matter of equality. Quite the opposite,most don't have any problem saying it is wrong .For some reason saying a homosexual lifestyle is wrong does seem to be a problem Given an opportunity to vote on gay marriage I would vote no.Does that mean to you that is pointing out someone else's sins? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators debbym Posted July 7, 2015 Administrators Posted July 7, 2015 i believe in freedom of religion, and if someone who is gay wants to have a church marriage based on their religion they ought to be able to do it. I do not believe any church should should be required to provide gay marriage services if it is against their belief system. God is able to sort out his own. Denying others their gay marriage, wherever they find it, does not bring anyone closer to the Kingdom of heaven. Criminalizing gay marriage is not something God has called me to do. Jesus is coming and he will call all of his own from where ever they are. I will not want to be found standing between Jesus and any of His lambs. I have friends in prison ministry, they do not go there and stand around telling the inmates how sinful their conduct is or has been in order to make sure they know what is right or wrong. God's Spirit reveals to each of His own what they need to understand about their condition as sinners at each step of their walk with Him, and he does the same for me. God does not reveal to any all that he might. we are all deeper in this sin problem then we really are able to comprehend, and Jesus loves sinners. And i am so grateful i am one sinner that Jesus loves. GayatfootofCross, Gail and JoeMo 3 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
bonnie Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) i believe in freedom of religion, and if someone who is gay wants to have a church marriage based on their religion they ought to be able to do it. I do not believe any church should should be required to provide gay marriage services if it is against their belief system. God is able to sort out his own. Denying others their gay marriage, wherever they find it, does not bring anyone closer to the Kingdom of heaven. Criminalizing gay marriage is not something God has called me to do. Jesus is coming and he will call all of his own from where ever they are. I will not want to be found standing between Jesus and any of His lambs. I have friends in prison ministry, they do not go there and stand around telling the inmates how sinful their conduct is or has been in order to make sure they know what is right or wrong. God's Spirit reveals to each of His own what they need to understand about their condition as sinners at each step of their walk with Him, and he does the same for me. God does not reveal to any all that he might. we are all deeper in this sin problem then we really are able to comprehend, and Jesus loves sinners. And i am so grateful i am one sinner that Jesus loves. Here we go again. Who besides you has come up with the suggestion that those that who oppose gay marriage would like to see it criminalized.It would be nice if you would not keep inserting an implication here and there. Churches were performing gay marriage prior to this There has been more than one clergy faced with the demand for gay marriage against their religious beliefs This is redefining marriage to accommodate what as a group wants the definition to be. Pick your sin ......... Jesus is coming and he will call all of his own from where ever they are. I will not want to be found standing between Jesus and any of His lambs. Does this mean he will call the adulterer his own when he returns and calls him from the bed of someone else's spouse? The one caught in the act of stealing when he returns? Will those committing adultery,theft,lying,drunkeness,living a homosexual lifestyle when Christ returns be called by Him. If so it must not be true that we will all have made our decision by then. they do not go there and stand around telling the inmates how sinful their conduct is or has been in order to make sure they know what is right or wrong. I would hope not.But on the flip side of that do the inmates insist on those in prison ministry celebrate and to help get laws passed so their behavior is no longer considered a sin in God's eyes? I don't think people should be subject to the demands of the gay community when they see it as wrong either. But they are,they are losing their business and facing monstrous fines church marriage based on their religion they ought to be able to do it. The push is not for those that agree with them,it is to punish those that don't and make them knuckle under to their demands. The fall out from this will reach far beyond a gay marriage. What I find so interesting is following several SDA's on facebook. for gay marriage,yet the prospect of plural marriage becoming legal in time is beyond unthinkable. A classic response is,"Everybody knows that is wrong" Completely opposed. Is that a case of standing between Christ and His lambs. Edited July 7, 2015 by bonnie DreamWeaver 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Would I want a gay pastor if he promoted the gay lifestyle as has been done here? After all Jesus will sort it out Would I want a known gay/lesbian teaching my kids in SS. Especially if they are taught what is promoted here. Should those of a gay/lesbian lifestyle be accepted in our church.Yes,but not with the privilege of holding office. Anymore than a drunk should.Do I believe we should change the definition of marriage to suit man,Nope. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
JoeMo Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Someone above said their opinion of gays doesn't matter - that they exist. I disagree. If "do not judge lest ye be judged" is still enforced, it may be true that if I "judge a person based solely on their sexual orientation or some other "objectionable" trait, I may be judged likewise (based on some "objectionable" trait of mine). But as I've said before, accepting all people as they are (just like Jesus accepts us wherever we are) is a far cry from celebrating their sin. Jesus accepted all people where they were, but He never celebrated their sin. I think one of His favorite sayings after He healed or delivered someone was go and sin no more. All that being said, I and my church will continue to minister to gays and all others that are coming to Jesus because they realize their need. I'm a believer cuz I realize my need. I'm a twisted and jaded individual that is certainly doomed to burn without the redemption and grace from a Saviour. But we won't celebrate sin by ordaining it in a religious service. I have been in a second marriage for 33 years now. When we got married, we couldn't find an SDA pastor to marry us because we had not left our first marriages for the only biblical reason -unfaithfulness). We understood; and got married elsewhere where they didn't care about previous marriages. We are still Adventists, because the church still accepted us even though they wouldn't marry us. I think it should be the same with gays. There ARE churches out there who will marry them. There ARE bakeries out there who will make cakes for them. The ones that won't do those things will suffer the consequences in the market - that's one of the consequences of preferring God's ways ove the ways of the world. They government has no right to force on faith-based organizations that which they are morally and spiritually opposed to. Quote
Administrators debbym Posted July 7, 2015 Administrators Posted July 7, 2015 Here we go again. Who besides you has come up with the suggestion that those that who oppose gay marriage would like to see it criminalized.It would be nice if you would not keep inserting an implication here and there. Churches were performing gay marriage prior to this There has been more than one clergy faced with the demand for gay marriage against their religious beliefs This is redefining marriage to accommodate what as a group wants the definition to be. Pick your sin ......... Jesus is coming and he will call all of his own from where ever they are. I will not want to be found standing between Jesus and any of His lambs. Does this mean he will call the adulterer his own when he returns and calls him from the bed of someone else's spouse? The one caught in the act of stealing when he returns? Will those committing adultery,theft,lying,drunkeness,living a homosexual lifestyle when Christ returns be called by Him. If so it must not be true that we will all have made our decision by then. they do not go there and stand around telling the inmates how sinful their conduct is or has been in order to make sure they know what is right or wrong. I don't think people should be subject to the demands of the gay community when they see it as wrong either. But they are,they are losing their business and facing monstrous fines church marriage based on their religion they ought to be able to do it. The push is not for those that agree with them,it is to punish those that don't and make them knuckle under to their demands. The fall out from this will reach far beyond a gay marriage. What I find so interesting is following several SDA's on facebook. for gay marriage,yet the prospect of plural marriage becoming legal in time is beyond unthinkable. A classic response is,"Everybody knows that is wrong" Completely opposed. Is that a case of standing between Christ and His lambs. Do you honestly fear that somehow there will be a government attempt to force your pastor to perform a gay wedding? You think this is the crucible, the test that will reveal the Righteousness of God in mercy and grace, and holiness in those who live by the Spirit? Those who stand in the last day stand in Jesus alone. no one will be expecting approval for anything that they are or are not. The glory of the goodness of God towards unworthy sinners will be demonstrated, and all sincere in heart will respond, and live. When we show our love and loyalty to God in the end it will not be to save anyone. Everyone will have made their final decision, it will be to glorify God, and show what the power of the cross is able to do in fallen humanity. The existence of "Sunday Sabbath" observance has done no harm to the Seventh-day Sabbath. You cannot harm God, you cannot change what God has ordained. You can think to change, but you cannot make void what God has ordained. God is above human devising. Marriage remains what God made it to be, nothing has changed that. Bonnie said, I would hope not.But on the flip side of that do the inmates insist on those in prison ministry celebrate and to help get laws passed so their behavior is no longer considered a sin in God's eyes? Human legislation has no authority or power over God. And i cannot imagine anyone ever thinking this, except some ecclesiastical bodies like the Jews in Jesus time. People invent their way all the time, but that does not void righteousness. You not holy and righteousness without Jesus. And nothing can harm or invalidate the Righteousness of CHrist. No human culture is eternal and holy before God, that is why we depend on Jesus. There has been all kinds of laws, made and remade but they are not holy and righteous before God, whatever they are. They are Human stuff. i do not live by the legislature of my government i live by the power and love of Christ. CoAspen 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
bonnie Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Do you honestly fear that somehow there will be a government attempt to force your pastor to perform a gay wedding? You think this is the crucible, the test that will reveal the Righteousness of God in mercy and grace, and holiness in those who live by the Spirit? Those who stand in the last day stand in Jesus alone. no one will be expecting approval for anything that they are or are not. I don't think there is any doubt as the more freedoms we lose and the more man made freedoms are bestowed on special interests. I think gay marriage is one more step. I believe there will be gays teaching in our schools in the not to distant future. Many that define themselves as christian,SDA's included begin to circle the wagons defend the gay agenda and condemn those that don't as "pointing out the sins of others" The sin of a homosexual lifestyle is a sin that is defended by many like no other. The existence of "Sunday Sabbath" observance has done no harm to the Seventh-day Sabbath. You cannot harm God, you cannot change what God has ordained. You can think to change, but you cannot make void what God has ordained. God is above human devising. Marriage remains what God made it to be, nothing has changed that. I wonder what God believes Sunday observance has done to the meaning of His Sabbath? You can certainly make what God has ordained void in this world and heap a world of hurt on others.In the end God will win. Again a few days ago a homosexual couple ,armed with a tape recorder and approached a business they knew would turn them down,based on religious beliefs. Bet if you ask them the tremendous fines and court costs represent the gay agenda holding sway over their lives at this time Bonnie said, I would hope not.But on the flip side of that do the inmates insist on those in prison ministry celebrate and to help get laws passed so their behavior is no longer considered a sin in God's eyes? Human legislation has no authority or power over God. And i cannot imagine anyone ever thinking this, except some ecclesiastical bodies like the Jews in Jesus time. People invent their way all the time, but that does not void righteousness. You not holy and righteousness without Jesus. And nothing can harm or invalidate the Righteousness of CHrist. No human culture is eternal and holy before God, that is why we depend on Jesus. There has been all kinds of laws, made and remade but they are not holy and righteous before God, whatever they are. They are Human stuff. i do not live by the legislature of my government i live by the power and love of Christ. There have of course been good laws ,bad laws invented by mankind. That has what do to with the question I asked you? You brought up prison ministries. If inmates responded to those ministering to them the same way supportive christians and gay/lesbians respond to any that disagree with them what would the response of those involved in prison ministries be ? DreamWeaver 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
DreamWeaver Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Debbym, I can see that you're trying to express patience and gentleness to people so they can come to Jesus eventually. And, correct me if I'm wrong about you, but you seem to be in agreement that homosexuality is a sin. But your position is confusing and I think you jump too quickly to the conclusion that everyone who has clearly made their stance on this thread is in someway mean to people who practice homosexuality. And you seem to be under the impression that people who are more apparent about their position are in need of correction concerning how they interact with people offline. Edited July 7, 2015 by DreamWeaver Quote
Administrators Gail Posted July 7, 2015 Administrators Posted July 7, 2015 There are two gays in this thread who do not promote homosexual behaviour. I am sure they have both endured both support and condemnation from all sort of people. It would be interesting to read their take on what attitude non-gays could take towards them that is helpful and not harmful. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators Bravus Posted July 7, 2015 Moderators Posted July 7, 2015 Some of you will get upset with me for saying this, but... There are people on this thread who seem to be under the delusion that you can read the bible and get the correct context without the help of the Holy Spirit. Some of you are using human logic and skepticism to shine a false light ahead for yourselves. The problem with this, of course, is that it is invisible to others. Others' thinking is invisible to us, and the actions of the Holy Spirit even more so. What it means is that someone can say "*You* are using 'human logic and skepticism', *I* am being guided by the Holy Spirit"... and there's no way to check that. It boils down to 'disagree with me, disagree with God'. It should be possible to support a case with Scripture, not claims of private revelation unavailable to others. Quote Truth is important
LifeHiscost Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Yes Gays were always a sweet part of Church. God Bless You All! Would you also consider those who commit adultery, murder, rape, child molestation, etc. a "sweet part" of the church (body of Christ), especially if they promote their freedom to choose that behavior will not be condemned by God (Jesus)? My understanding of a sinner's acceptance is their repentance or turning away from what they were before the indwelling Christ gave them power to turn away from their past. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him....Genesis 4 God is Love! Jesus saves! I would have an addendum to my last post with this Word. 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.....Matthew 5 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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