What is your position on homosexuality?

[Robert]

All this talk about homosexual sex...

I am a sinner....I love me.  That's how I was born, at no fault of my own. Selfishness is selfishness....Perversion is perversion, i.e., sin is sin.  And yes, homosexual sex (sodomy, etc) is sin...it's perverted.  Yes, I know that heterosexuals do this to (the man to the woman).  It's all wrong!  Sodomy is unhealthy and perverted. 

Does Paul agree?

Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ...24 Therefore God gave them up to the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

Paul is not writing about falling into sin (besetting sins).  Paul is writing about men & women who know of God, yet reject their need of Him.  This is evident from verse 32:

"they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

So the mindset here is practicing sin as a lifestyle.  There's no repentance and no need of Christ and His righteousness.

What is the fruit of ungodliness (living one's life without God)?  Verses 29-31 gives a list of the sins the ungodly practice and condone.  They include homosexual acts:

Verse 27: Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Robert

[GayatfootofCross]

I am a sinner....I love me.  That's how I was born, at no fault of my own. Selfishness is selfishness....Perversion is perversion, i.e., sin is sin.  And yes, homosexual sex (sodomy, etc) is sin...it's perverted.  Yes, I know that heterosexuals do this to (the man to the woman).  It's all wrong!  Sodomy is unhealthy and perverted. 

Does Paul agree?

Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ...24 Therefore God gave them up to the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

Paul is not writing about falling into sin (besetting sins).  Paul is writing about men & women who know of God, yet reject their need of Him.  This is evident from verse 32:

"they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

So the mindset here is practicing sin as a lifestyle.  There's no repentance and no need of Christ and His righteousness.

What is the fruit of ungodliness (living one's life without God)?  Verses 29-31 gives a list of the sins the ungodly practice and condone.  They include homosexual acts:

Verse 27: Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 

 

 

 

 

I understand there is a knee jerk response to filth.

If you really look at sex [turns the fan on], it in of itself is pretty disgusting and primal.

[hears howlings and cats fighting and crickets and birds and bees]

It is exciting for the moment for many of us.

You will never see me say Gay Sex is not a Sin here.

But for me.....

It comes down to this....

When Straight Men think of Gays ..they think of uhhh  aaaall the Sex they must for sure golly whillakers be a havin.

When God thinks of Gays ..He thinks of People.

I think much of the debate will go away when we follow GOD.

GBU! Robert!

 

[turns the fan off]

.

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[LifeHiscost]

I have long believed we should be tolerant of homosexuals, just as we extend tolerance to people who use tobacco or alcohol and adulterers (all these can be forgiven--even the polygamy of Biblical patriarchs). We must still, of course, point homosexuals to the Scriptures which plainly show their behavior to be judged by God as sinful, and urge them to receive therapy for what is in fact an aberrant behavior. But what God cannot be tolerant of is a direct challenge to His authority, when people presume to redefine what marriage is, defying God's definition. If same-sex unions were called unions, or partnerships, or anything other than marriage, there would be no problem. But daring to defy God's authority in one of the two divine institutions God established in Eden, before the Fall of Mankind, can only lead to the significant removal of divine protection from our nation and from our world. Today's Supreme Court 5-4 split decision is the real and true beginning of the end for America. The troubles that will now come on America in the form of natural disasters and man-made disasters, will eventually lead people to be willing to enforce a Sunday Law, where everyone is required to go to church for "moral instruction" on Sunday. If you have ever wondered what would lead to America accepting a national Sunday Law, this is it. The End of Time has begun.

I cannot say how long I have waited for someone besides a professional preacher, to see the Word as a major influence in their assessment of where and why we (very broad term) are where we are. I just listened to an excerpt from a comment by Billy Graham, appearing to be in possible life threatening health circumstances, stating probably the most important words he or anyone else could ever have made. "I have preached to many people. I am still a sinner in need of a Savior." 

When the final chip falls, while many things will influence our usefulness in the Lord's army and the rewards we may or may not receive because of them, there is only one that will suffice to keep our names in the book of life. Did we accept the blood of Jesus as our only hope after answering His knock on our door?

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me....Revelation 3

 

¹⁷ For a ^[a]covenant is valid only when ^[b]men are dead, ^[c]for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. ¹⁸ Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. ¹⁹ For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, ²⁰ saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” ²¹ And in the same way he sprinkled both the ^[d]tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. ²² And according to the ^[e]Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

²³ Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. ²⁴ For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us....Hebrews 9

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[Robert]

One more time: the sins of Sodom were primarily (as stated in the Bible) in their treatment of the vulnerable and poor, not homosexuality. Certainly America has much to fear if it is to be called to account for those particular sins.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication , and going after strange flesh (compare Rom 1:27), are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 

[GayatfootofCross]

Do I have to turn the fan on again?

[Bravus]

1. Right. You have chosen one text among many. I said 'primarily'. Look at *all* the texts, and see what predominates.

2. You have interpreted 'strange flesh', based in your own set of assumptions, to mean 'of the same sex', rather than - as seems more likely in the OT context (of the story, not this NT commentary on the story) - 'foreign'. Is there a Greek scholar in the house who can clarify the meaning of the word(s) used?

[GayatfootofCross]

1. Right. You have chosen one text among many. I said 'primarily'. Look at *all* the texts, and see what predominates.

2. You have interpreted 'strange flesh', based in your own set of assumptions, to mean 'of the same sex', rather than - as seems more likely in the OT context (of the story, not this NT commentary on the story) - 'foreign'. Is there a Greek scholar in the house who can clarify the meaning of the word(s) used?

Thank you for saying something. It doesn't work when I say the same thing. I wonder why !

Pssst.. Man with man is same flesh ( i won't get out the pictures) and also Strange Flesh is not of this earth (angels).

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication , and going after strange flesh (compare Rom 1:27), are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 

For all practical purposes, what difference is it whether I lose my place in the Lamb's book if Life as a result of going after strange flesh or of neglecting to serve the homeless and the poor?

7and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of

judgment,...2 Peter 2

Lot's wife had no part in any licentious living so far as an open declaration found in the Scripture. She lost her eternal reward as a result of having a heart disobedient to direct spiritual counsel.

…31"On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32"Remember Lot's wife. 33"Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.…Luke 17

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

For all practical purposes, what difference is it whether I lose my place in the Lamb's book if Life as a result of going after strange flesh or of neglecting to serve the homeless and the poor?

7and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of

judgment,...2 Peter 2

Lot's wife had no part in any licentious living so far as an open declaration found in the Scripture. She lost her eternal reward as a result of having a heart disobedient to direct spiritual counsel.

…31"On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32"Remember Lot's wife. 33"Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.…Luke 17

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

 

I see boatloads of Anti Gay stuff allover the media and Christians voting against it and blah blah blah.(6  verses)

Since i was weeee lil boy.

But when do we see Christians do the same with even more passion with rallying for the poor and the widows and orphans ( more than three hundred verses) in voting and lifestyles.

thank God there is a number of them.

But the ratio is so distorted considering Scriptures Identifying the worse of Sodom's Sins. Number ONE!

I wrote a lil thing on it..

Edited September 26, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[LifeHiscost]

 

Pssst.. Man with man is same flesh ( i won't get out the pictures) and also Strange Flesh is not of this earth (angels).

 

 

Assumption?  Ever heard of beastiality?

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[GayatfootofCross]

Assumption?  Ever heard of beastiality?

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

I have heard of it.

I think these thread can take a bad turn.

All those poor snow bunnies.

[LifeHiscost]

 

I see boatloads of Anti Gay stuff allover the media and Christians voting against it and blah blah blah.(6  verses)

Since i was weeee lil boy.

But when do we see Christians do the same with even more passion with rallying for the poor and the widows and orphans ( more than three hundred verses) in voting and lifestyles.

thank God there is a number of them.

But the ratio is so distorted considering Scriptures Identifying the worse of Sodom's Sins. Number ONE!

I wrote a lil thing on it..

Our job designated by the Master is___________

15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.…Mark 16

His responsibility is to fulfill His promises to us as we seek to follow His instructions.

…10"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;....Isaiah 55

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

And I forgot to mention, there is no place in Scripture where we are told we are to make the decisions for others who we are told to love, beyond helping them to see the Truth.

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." ....John 8

…11"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."...Acts 4

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

Yes and let me add something that I  hardly  ever never ever never hear Christians bring up in relation to The  Great Commission.

It is just not 3ABN getting new technology to go further around the world.

It is not just throwing Religious Books into the Driveways like a Sunday News Paper.

It is not just passing out tracts at the local Fair. Or signing up people for Bible Study Guides.

It is about Living out Jesus Life in how we love and care for people not like us.

It is a Holy Supernatural thing to actually bring Heaven and Blessings and Self Sacrificial Love to our Enemies of our Morals and Nation and Church and Way of life.

!

When that happens..We are fulfilling the great Commission.

 

 

[Robert]

Man with man is same flesh ( i won't get out the pictures) and also Strange Flesh is not of this earth (angels).

"Strange flesh" can't be angels for they are not of "flesh & blood".  They are spirits, as God is Spirit.

Strange flesh is the opposite of natural flesh.

"men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another (i.e., unnatural or "strange")."

Common sense, folks...common sense.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Robert

[GayatfootofCross]

"Strange flesh" can't be angels for they are not of "flesh & blood".  They are spirits, as God is Spirit.

Strange flesh is the opposite of natural flesh.

"men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another (i.e., unnatural or "strange")."

Common sense, folks...common sense.

 

It is my understanding that when the two angels came walking thru the gates of Sodom and told Lot that they would stay the night in the Town's Square ( Lot saw their dirty fleshy feet and offered to wash em).  And later the Angels physically dragged  Lot and Family out of the Town.They were not disembodied Spirits at that moment.

The scriptures are referring to a specific  story where Angels appeared and moved as Flesh that the People of Sodom wanted to  violently rape their fleshy ______.

Not Angels on about how they are made..

 

Common sense, folks...common sense.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

God calls His Privileged Children to love on them!

never lord over them thru voting etc etc etc

But to come aside for the Long Haul

⁵ And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the Lord liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:

⁶ And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.

⁷ And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

⁸ And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

⁹ Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

¹⁰ Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.....2 Samuel 1

 

¹⁰ When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

¹¹ She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more....John 8

It is not love that fails to reveal continued misbehaviors at the peril of others who would take the silence for acquiescence to the same.

¹⁴ Do not be unequally bound together with unbelievers [do not make mismatched alliances with them, inconsistent with your faith]. For what partnership can righteousness have with lawlessness? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? ¹⁵ What harmony can there be between Christ and Belial (Satan)? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? ¹⁶ What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said:

“I will dwell among them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
¹⁷ 
“So come out from among unbelievers and be separate,” says the Lord,
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will graciously receive you and welcome you [with favor],
¹⁸ 
And I will be a Father to you,
And you will be My sons and daughters,”
Says the Lord Almighty.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[GayatfootofCross]

Yes and let me add something that I  hardly  ever never ever never hear Christians bring up in relation to The  Great Commission.

It is just not 3ABN getting new technology to go further around the world.

It is not just throwing Religious Books into the Driveways like a Sunday News Paper.

It is not just passing out tracts at the local Fair. Or signing up people for Bible Study Guides.

It is about Living out Jesus Life in how we love and care for people not like us.

It is a Holy Supernatural thing to actually bring Heaven and Blessings and Self Sacrificial Love to our Enemies of our Morals and Nation and Church and Way of life.

!

When that happens..We are fulfilling the great Commission.

 

 

 

 

 

It is not love that fails to reveal continued misbehaviors at the peril of others who would take the silence for acquiescence to the same.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

^{God is a relational GOD}

^{He wants to have a relationship with you.}

^{We are to reflect that. And when someone is in a relationship with you..they will know where you stand.}

^{And God is also a Gentleman  who waits to be invited. And doesn't push but comes under to serve and to woo you.}

^{We are to reflect that also.}

^{Of course we probably have very different pictures of God.}

 

 

¹⁴ Do not be unequally bound together with unbelievers [do not make mismatched alliances with them, inconsistent with your faith]. For what partnership can righteousness have with lawlessness? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? ¹⁵ What harmony can there be between Christ and Belial (Satan)? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? ¹⁶ What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said:

“I will dwell among them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
¹⁷ 
“So come out from among unbelievers and be separate,” says the Lord,
 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

^?

^{Not sure how this applies to Sharing the GOSPEL with Others.}

^Blessings!

 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

^{God is a relational GOD}

^{He wants to have a relationship with you.}

 

^{We are to reflect that also.}

^{Of course we probably have very different pictures of God.}

^?

^{Not sure how this applies to Sharing the GOSPEL with Others.}

^Blessings!

 

 

 

The relationship is evident and certain when the spiritual changes of righteousness by faith in Christ are evident in the suppliant. Sharing the gospel is nothing more nor less than revealing what Christ has worked out in us.

²³ Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

²⁴ Therefore will I scatter them as the stubble that passeth away by the wind of the wilderness.

²⁵ This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the Lord; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood.

²⁶ Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.

²⁷ I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?^{....Jeremiah 13}

⁵ I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.....John 15

.⁸ Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. ^{....Hebrews 13}

God is Love!  Jesus saves!   

[GayatfootofCross]

 

⁵ I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.....John 15

.⁸ Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. ^{....Hebrews 13}

God is Love!  Jesus saves!   

 

amen!

I have been in the Company of People who love like Jesus like Crazy and sitting there in their home where Love Joy and Peace is in every inch of their Place.

They are comfortable and relaxed if mistakes are made by either party.

You know not to gossip or make an off color joke or whatever cause it is Evident That Jesus  abides in their humble abode.

You want to come back to their Home. You want what they have.  You want Their GOD...and sometimes you even feel it can be possible cause of their Lives.

.

Then there is homes you walk into and there is Bibles everywhere but you feel suffocated or uncomfortable. You start small talk about asking about someone from Church and they will tell you everything wrong about them.

They will warn and beg you to give your Life to JESUS before it's TOO LAAATE! If you do what they tell you.. they think of themselves as self appointed guardians of your Soul. Anxiety and Fear and  Loathing can pop up any second in their admonishment or testimony.

They act like its a great thing they actually let you in. They think they got a brownie button in heaven for it.

You don't want to come back cause you either felt like a missionary project or a castaway  after you leave their home.

.

A Groom woos the Bride.

staying on Topic here..

let me say this

 For the Most part ...The Christian Culture has not been this to the LGBTIQQAA at all or in tiny weeny strains .

Sometimes I think too many  Christians think it's a Virtue to be disgusted and offended by LGBTIQQAA.

Like when they are offended or disgusted they are closer to Heaven.

WHATEV!

Have a blessed Night!

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by GayatfootofCross