Not Under Law – Under Grace

[Robert]

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archierieus said:

I perceive that evidence has been presented, which is abundantly clear, and which establishes the points asserted....

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“To one who, during the Saviour's ministry, offered to follow him as his disciple, Jesus said, "The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." [:"red"]Those who follow him must share his poverty.[/] "If any man will come after me he declares, "let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." "So shall ye be my disciples." [RH 7-4-1912]

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Rob,

Manuscript Release No. 760: The Integrity of the Sanctuary Truth, page 14, paragraph 2

"If we are the Lord's appointed messengers, we shall not spring up with new ideas and theories to contradict the message that God has given through His servants since 1844. At that time many sought the Lord with heart and soul and voice. The men whom God raised up were diligent searchers of the Scriptures. And those who today claim to have light, and who contradict the teaching of God's ordained messengers who were working under the Holy Spirit's guidance, those who get up new theories which remove the pillars of our faith, are not doing the will of God, but are bringing in fallacies of their own invention, which, if received, will cut the church away from the anchorage of truth and set them drifting, drifting, to where they will receive any sophistries that may arise. These will be similar to that which Dr. J. H. Kellogg, under Satan's special guidance, has been working for years."

Rob, I have looked at this theory and studied it, believed it at one point but not any more. Some of what Jack says is true, but not all and that causes suspicion. I always had a nagging suspicion about this and then I prayed and prayed for God to show me the truth and then we got started with this and I saw it for what it was. I can not have a clear conscience and believe this. I have not hatred for you or Jack, I just honestly can't accept it. AS I have said in the past on it's own it wounds really good but when compared to scripture and SOP it contradicts both.

The Test of New Light .--Our brethren should be willing to investigate in a candid way every point of controversy. If a brother is teaching error, those

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who are in responsible positions ought to know it; and if he is teaching truth, they ought to take their stand at his side. We should all know what is being taught among us; for if it is truth, we need it. We are all under obligation to God to know what He sends us. He has given directions by which we may test every doctrine,--"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." If the light presented meets this test, we are not to refuse to accept it because it does not agree with our ideas.-- Gospel Workers, pp. 300, 301.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

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What if your wife was tortured, raped and murdered (as in the illustration I gave). Would you be willing to take their death penalty so that they could go Scott-free? That's what Christ did....

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Rob you have to understand something. At one point in my life I was not well. Suicidal for 6 months and I could do little without crying. I was depressed and was looking for anyway I could to die. At the same time I didn't want to die (or else I would have suceeded)

After recovering from that and Alcoholism and getting my emotions together. I learned a basic truth. I was a sick individual and I wasn't all that nice to put it mildy. After I regained mental health I coud now see why people do things because I understood myself. I realized why I thought felt and acted the way I did.

That gave me insight into all humanity. There are horrible wicked people who are slaves of Satan and since we do not fight with flesh and blood I have realized that Satan is the one who is to blame for this. So the murderer you discribed now becomes a lost person in my eyes not a wicked killer. (Also, I have been involved in prison ministry long enough to know about some of these poeple)

God has shown me what I am and what we all are, lost sheep. Therefore with the love of God in my heart being led by His Spirit I would give my eternal life for this person you discribed. That's when I would sweat blood Rob, because I know it would not be a simple choice. I would have to trust that God was going to somehow ressurect me. That Jesus knew, although during the actual separation He lost sight of that and thought He was not going to be ressurected.

Am I boasting? No becuase I hope I never have to go through that.(Nevertheless if God has that in my future then I must trust that He will not let me be tempted above that which I am able to handle) Can you imagine??? Only by the Holy Spirit would anyone be able to endure that. Jesus our exampledid it, Moses did it, Stephen, Paul, John, Peter and many many others who loved God and echoed "though He slay me yet will trust Him"

Norman

[LifeHiscost]

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Norman said:

only the Holy Spirit can do what I hope for.

Norman

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[:"red"]"He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, and to love kindness and mercy, and to humble yourself and walk humbly with your God?" [/] Micah 6:8 AMP

[Robert]

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Jesus our example did it, Moses did it, Stephen, Paul, John, Peter and many many others who loved God and echoed "though He slay me yet will trust Him"

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I must correct you Norman....No man has tasted "the 2nd death" as did Christ. Not even by a thought did He sin, even after all hope was gone.

Even IF today you were "measuring up" (and hence not "falling short of the glory of God") that righteousness wouldn't be good enough for you to gain heaven. Why?

If any of us is to enter heaven because of our righteousness then we must meet the law requirements in 3 areas:

1] From birth to death we must have a spotless record. No sins even by a thought.

2] Because we are sinful by birth (see Ps 51:5) the law demands our "eternal death" [i.e., the 2nd death]. So even if we could perfectly keep the law we still must die!

3] The law also demands "holy flesh" or a life without indwelling sin. We are not only sinners by performance, but we are sinners by nature. Having a sinful nature makes us sinners!

Rob

[Robert]

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Norman said:

Jud 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to

keep you from falling

(short) , and

to present you faultless

before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy....

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As noted before...you added "short" to make the meaning of Jude contradict Paul's quote in Romans 3:23.

You, Gerry and Dave all insist that you are saved by grace alone apart from your law-performance, yet you go out of your way to maintain your perfectionist theory! Why?

• Answer: Because you really don't believe that you are saved by grace alone apart from your law-performance! If you did you would not insist that you don't "fall short" of God's selfless love.

Let me approach this topic from another view. When I attended the local SDA I was taught that, "We don't keep the law to be saved, we keep the law because we are saved." At the time I accepted this heresy hook, line and sinker, but upon reflection it is legalistic at best.

Here's the problem: If I am "falling short" of keeping God's law then I must not be saved! It contradicts the first part, that is, "We don't keep the law to be saved".

I like what EGW said concerning this infatuation with one's law-performance:

“…Men will say, "You are too excited; you are making too much of this matter [righteousness by faith alone], and you do not think enough of the law; now, you must think more of the law; don't be all the time reaching for this righteousness of Christ, but build up the law." Let the law take care of itself. We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa, without dew or rain. Let us trust in the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. May God help us that our eyes may be anointed with eyesalve, that we may see.” [The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 557]

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

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I must correct you Norman....No man has tasted "the 2nd death" as did Christ. Not even by a thought did He sin, even after all hope was gone.

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My point was that all were willing, I know that Christ is the only one who died the 2nd death. We are not called to do that. God looks at the heart and see who is willing and those who are reflect the love of God.

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Even IF today you were "measuring up" (and hence not "falling short of the glory of God") that righteousness wouldn't be good enough for you to gain heaven. Why?

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Rob I am not preoccupied with "Gaining heaven" I am interested in my relationship with Abba (and Jesus) who will send His Son to get me when the time is perfect. I am also interested in sharing the love of God in Christ.

Gaining heaven implies works, I'm not into works for heaven.

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1] From birth to death we must have a spotless record. No sins even by a thought.

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Pro 24:16 "For a just (righteous, lawful) man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief." Interestingly enough one of the translations for "mischief" is wretchedness

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know (relationship)him, if we keep his commandments.

As we our relatioship with Abba grows He makes the fruit appear and we will reveal His character. This reveals our love for Him.

Since God has made Jesus to be a proptiation for all sins this reveals that God is not demanding man to be absolutely sinless. He knows we will hence the provision, otherwise His sacrifice was only for past sins.

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2] Because we are sinful by birth (see Ps 51:5) the law demands our "eternal death"

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What about those who lived from Adam to Moses when there was no law? Since there's no law, then they shouldn't have to die the 2nd death according this.

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3] The law also demands "holy flesh" or a life without indwelling sin.

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What law is that? That is ridiculous Rob, by saying that you make Christ's sacrifice of no effect seeing He did not have holy flesh to offer in our behalf.

Christ met the laws demands, all of it, and holy flesh was not what He had, therefore if the law demanded holy flesh He failed.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Rob Said, In another thread,

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Norman said: (Remember this is all done by the power of Christ in us this is not a call to obedience in order to be saved but to reveal the love of God in us....)

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When I attended the local SDA I was taught that, "We don't keep the law to be saved, we keep the law because we are saved." At the time I accepted this heresy hook, line and sinker, but upon reflection it is legalistic at best.

Here's the problem: If I am "falling short" of keeping God's law then I must not be saved! It contradicts the first part, that is, "We don't keep the law to be saved".

I like what EGW said concerning this infatuation with one's law-performance:

“…Men will say, "You are too excited; you are making too much of this matter [righteousness by faith alone], and you do not think enough of the law; now, you must think more of the law; don't be all the time reaching for this righteousness of Christ, but build up the law." Let the law take care of itself. We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa, without dew or rain. Let us trust in the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. May God help us that our eyes may be anointed with eyesalve, that we may see.” [The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 557]

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Hey Lawbert, where do you see that I said anyting about keeping the law. You've got law brain freeze

I said but to reveal the love of God in us

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

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As noted before...you added "short" to make the meaning of Jude contradict Paul's quote in Romans 3:23.

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Earth to Rob,

They are not saying the same thing they are two different writers saying different things in two different contexts, which you want to blend in to your theory.

Context?

Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit .

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God , looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, (From what? from that which was happening and is bolded above) and to present you faultless (Hmmmm faultless, must mean full of grace and stumbling [i speak as a Jackite]) before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Look at the Greek Rob, it supports what the english says plainly.

Norman

[Robert]

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My point was that all were willing, I know that Christ is the only one who died the 2nd death.

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Willing doesn't make it! No one has been hopelessly abandoned by God. You might do well when everyone is against you...you might hold up and not sin when you are being persecuted, but let God abandon you and we are dealing with a whole different story. Even though Christ was abandoned by God...even thought His own people were murdering Him, Christ didn't sin even by thought! Simply amazing!

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We are not called to do that.

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Oh yes you are! The law demands your death [justice] because you are a sinner....

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Rob I am not preoccupied with "Gaining heaven"....

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Good! Then why are you judgmental to those not meeting up to your standard?

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And hereby we do know that we know (relationship) him, if we keep his commandments.

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Let's look at the context of your quote:

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves

2 John 1:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

Wait...how can we "obey his commands" if we are not "without sin"? Doesn't make sense! Let's read on:

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God is not demanding man to be absolutely sinless.

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Then how good...50%, 80%...99%?

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What about those who lived from Adam to Moses when there was no law? Since there's no law, then they shouldn't have to die the 2nd death according this.

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Romans 5 covers this....Between Adam and Moses there wasn't a visible law, yet mankind was dying! Why? Clue: "The wages of sin is death"!....They were dying because they stood condemned "in Adam"! Read the context and you will see what I mean....

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What law is that? That is ridiculous Rob, by saying that you make Christ's sacrifice of no effect seeing He did not have holy flesh to offer in our behalf.

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What saves you? The gospel received by faith, right? Tell me what is the gospel?

Answer: The birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Son of man! Christ's whole life answered the law in every detail.

Christ as God had to assume our corporate life under the curse. To do this He had to unite our fallen humanity to His deity. He did this at the incarnation....This qualified Him to be our Savior!

The moment Christ assumed our humanity, that humanity came under the curse of the law [see Gal 4:4] Why? Because it is sinful by conception [see Ps 51:5]

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Christ met the laws demands, all of it, and holy flesh was not what He had, therefore if the law demanded holy flesh He failed.

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What kind of humanity did Christ take to heaven, Holy or sinful? IF the law doesn't demand holy flesh, then why didn't He take a sinful humanity to heaven? By sinful I mean humanity indwelt with sin or a sinful nature. Holy flesh is simply a term used by EGW to mean our glorified body without indwelling sin.

Rob

[Robert]

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Norman said:

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, (From what? from that which was happening and is bolded above) and to present you faultless (Hmmmm faultless, must mean full of grace and stumbling [i speak as a Jackite]) before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Look at the Greek Rob, it supports what the English says plainly.

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No, it supports your legalistic, self-righteous view! Christ will never present you before His Father's law!!! Do you know why? Because the law isn't in the business of forgiving! It demands 3 things:

1] A life free from indwelling sin

2] A life of perfect obedience

3] Your life if you fail in the above 2

So this ridiculous notion that Jesus presents you [Norman] "faultless" before God's throne is legalism to the nth degree! You should repent of such an attitude....What blindness!

Here's how Jesus presents you:

Col 1:22 He [Jesus] has now reconciled [you] in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him [God the Father], 23 provided [you keep the law?...No,] provided that you continue in the faith....

The only way Jesus will ever represent you is by that glorified humanity He took to heaven with Him some 2000 years ago! If Christ held you up, Norman, well...you would never make it.....Get real!

Okay…so what is Jude speaking of? Answer: “falling from grace!” How do you fall from grace?

By your legalistic theology, that’s how….Go to Gal 5:1

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

What is Paul talking about? Go to Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses [the first five book of the OT].” ….why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

So clearly Paul is talking about the whole law, which includes the moral law!

Back to Gal 5:2

Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law [even partially] have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.

So Jesus, by representing you in Himself, keeps you from falling from grace! That’s the issue in Jude!

[Robert]

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Robert said:

The only way Jesus will ever represent you

is by that glorified humanity He took to heaven with Him some 2000 years ago!

If Christ held you up, Norman, well...you would never make it.

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Let me clarify this!

Norman...you and I are sinners! Even if you perfectly obeyed God's law from now until you die, you are still in sinner in the eyes of the law! Why?

1] Again, the law doesn't forgive. You have a past full of failures.

2] Because you have failed to obey perfectly, the law demands your death. How can you answer this demand and still get eternal life? You can't!

3] The law also demands a life free from indwelling sin! That alone condemns you....

So at best, if you kept the law perfectly from here on you are maybe fulfilling less than 33% of God's law!

So how does Christ represent Norman?

Answer: By faith!

In other words by faith you admit that you need Christ to represent you before God's law. Yes...in yourself you are a sinner, but IN CHRIST you have a glorified humanity free from indwelling sin. Here's proof:

Col 1:13 For He [God the Father] delivered us from the domain of darkness [this sinful world], and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

When did God do this?

Eph 2:5 ...even when we were dead in our transgressions [when we stood condemned "under law"], God [the Father] made us alive together with Christ [this refers to the incarnation] (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus....

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Titus 2:13, 14.

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

NOrman

[Robert]

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Norman said:

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

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No, Norman...Paul is not writing to you! He is not saying, "Norman...rebuke with all authority and let no man despise you." His letter is to Titus....Are you Titus?

Here's the context:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

God, through Jesus Christ, has brought [past tense] salvation to all men! The unbeliever needs to accept this past historical event by faith.

12 It [God's grace] teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age....

Yes it does....I, through God's grace, have said "no" to worldly passions [adultery, greed, hate, etc]....But I also know that realistically speaking I have failed from time to time. Remember, if I look at a woman and say, "Man...that looks good" I've committed adultery in the law's eyes.

Anyway...sinning like that is not a lifestyle issue with me. Why? God's grace....That being said I "fall short" of God's selfless love. Of course Paul is not discussing that issue here, but we must not forget it or we will become self-righteous and legalistic.

verse 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own....

Don't get this confused with perfectionism....Paul is not saying God will redeem us from all self-seeking [iniquity] and purify us from all sin.

Jesus gave Himself "to redeem us from all self-seeking"....This is speaking of the "in Christ" motif! If not then why would John and Paul say respectively, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and all fall short of the glory of God"?

But I've got a clearer one if you don't buy my view on your quote-- Go to Titus 3:4

"when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared [some 2000 years ago], 5 He saved us [past tense], [how?] not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy [grace], [how?]

by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He [God the Father] poured out upon us richly [:"Red"]in Jesus Christ[/] our Savior....

Where was our humanity washed and fully regenerated? "In Christ"

Turn to Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit [the regeneration of the Spirit] [where...in you? No,] in Christ Jesus has set you [the believer] free from the law of sin and of death.

Question: Are you free from

1] The law of sin - your sinful nature

2] Are you free from the 2nd death?

No, both these things are future! When you receive your glorified life from Christ, then you will be free of your sinful nature. We have the promise that we will not die the 2nd death IF we hold on to Christ by faith.

So we are not free yet, but "in Christ" we can claim that our glorified humanity [in the heavenly places] is free from 1 and 2!

Back to Titus verse 7:

that being justified by His grace [we are being justified as we believe] we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God may be careful to engage in good deeds.

That's always the aim....Go to Gal 5:3 You, my brothers, were called to be free.

"Free" from what? Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage

The law is a yoke of bondage to those trying to fully measure up! Christ has deliver us from the OC of obey and live, disobey and die.

But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Paul is giving excellent counsel here….BTW, in legalism there’s a bunch of finger pointing and disagreements on what rules to keep and not to keep. In legalism everyone is trying to get the one up on the next guy. Why? No assurance…no peace! That’s why Jesus invited us to rest in Him….

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Rob,

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No, Norman...Paul is not writing to you! He is not saying, "Norman...rebuke with all authority and let no man despise you." His letter is to Titus....Are you Titus?

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You say this when it suites your purpose Rob. When Paul says

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: :7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

you say that this applies to you and all in Christ, the world. That's not what he means and EGW agrees with him.

In Heavenly Places, page 7, paragraph 3

Chapter Title: "In Heavenly Places"--Our Exalted Privilege

"Christ gave Himself for the redemption of the race, that all who believe in Him may have everlasting life. Those who appreciate this great sacrifice receive from the Saviour that most precious of all gifts --a clean heart. They gain an experience that is more valuable than gold or silver or precious stones. They sit together in heavenly places in Christ, enjoying in communion with Him the joy and peace that He alone can give. They love Him with heart and mind and soul and strength, realizing that they are His blood-bought heritage. Their spiritual eyesight is not dimmed by worldly policy or worldly aims. They are one with Christ as He is one with the Father."

Rob, for me, there has to be an MO that can be followed to understand truth and for me to agree with whatever anyone brings to me. To say that what Paul says to Titus is only for Titus and not for me to teach and then take what Paul said to the Ephesian believers, a letter specifically for them and say that the above is for the whole world does not seem honest. It lacks in moral intergrity. Yes there are universal truths but you can't pick and choose just to get what you want out of it. Likewise with SOP, if you don't agree with it do away with it altogether. It makes you look as if you're using it just to get your poing across and then when something conflicts with what you believe you say it's off or wrong or that she grew to the point where she said some things that were falsor misguided, whatever.

Also I cannot disagree with SOP because it's scriptural. Many times I have studied things and then checked out SOP only to find the same thing there! It's a blessing.

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"when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared [some 2000 years ago], 5 He saved us [past tense], [how?] not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness,

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continue reading and this is what he says,

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Am I not to take this and repeat it to fellow believers because it was addressed to Titus? Am I Titus? Yes, Just as John was in the spirit of Elijah so I and others who repeat this message are in the spirit of Paul and Titus. This must be so otherwise you can quote Paul when he gives other admonitions.

This is getting long in the tooth and I have other folks that need my attention. I have been asked me to comment on certain things, I really need to answer them and stop this.

We had a good run with this Rob, it has been helpful to me, no hard feelings and I have nothing against you. Thanks for your comments.

Take care,

Norman

[Robert]

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Norman said:

• [Eph 2:5-7] you say that this applies to you and all in Christ,
  the world
  . That's not what he means and EGW agrees with him."...Those who appreciate this great sacrifice [i.e., believers] receive from the Saviour that most precious of all gifts --a clean heart....They sit together in heavenly places in Christ"

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Ellen White isn't commenting on Eph. 2:5-7...rather she is spiritualizing it to get across her point.

I can see that you do not understand the gospel, therefore you naturally fall into the "works-oriented" camp within the SDA church. You should have listened to Sequeira!

What you are teaching is Calvinism....He taught that God, through Jesus Christ, only saved the "elect"...i.e., the believers. The Bible disagrees:

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1 Tim 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Cor 5:14 One died for all, and therefore all died

Even EGW disagrees with you:

BC- 5BC

TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 5

CN- MAR2

CT- Mark

PR- 04

PG- 1113

When the voice of the angel was heard saying, “Thy Father calls thee,” He who had said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again,” “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. [:"red"]Humanity died[/]….

-BC- 7BC

-TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7

-CN- HEB8

-CT- Hebrews

-PR- 03

-PG- 927

By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man [mankind]. [How?] This was not done by going out of Himself to another, [:"red"]but by taking humanity into Himself.[/] [What type of humanity?]….To bring humanity into Christ, [:"red"]to bring the fallen race[/] into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption.

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This is getting long in the tooth and I have other folks that need my attention. I have been asked me to comment on certain things, I really need to answer them and stop this.

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"Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God's word, and discourage any further investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative, and seek to avoid discussion.[ EGW]

Rob

[LifeHiscost]

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WayneV said:

Because if our salvation is by faith, then it depends on us, but if it is by grace, then it depends on God.

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[:"red"] "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" [/] Eph 2:8 NASB parenthesis mine LHC

Whether it is through faith or by grace, since faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit, our salvation remains dependent upon our Father's intervention.

[:"red"] "...and now there doth remain faith, hope, love -- these three; and the greatest of these [is] love." [/] 1 Cor 13:13 YLT

[:"red"] "....the fruit of the Spirit is....faith..." [/] Gal 5:22 KJV

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

So then faith itself is a GIFT from God, and this gift comes by hearing THE WORD, and this leads to receiving the GRACE which SAVES us.

Any thoughts?

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