Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Here we go.... Righteousness according to Greg! No free speech here....Censoring? Yes! Even God doesn't step in and edit us.... Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Does the statement mean I'll never get to the point where I can overcome the besetting sin ? Sins Gerrry...sins [plural]! Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: "This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men ." Mt 15:8,9 NASB. Legalism is the doctrine of man....! Thank you! Quote: "Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus." Rev 14:12 NASB. This is a reference to the future 144,000 an end-time event. This is not the subject for it doesn't apply to anyone now! Quote
archierieus Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Robert said: This is a reference to the future 144,000 an end-time event. This is not the subject for it doesn't apply to anyone now! Actually, it is part of the third angel's message, and describes God's people who are living at the time. The same description is used in ch. 12:17, to describe the remnant of the seed of the woman, viz. God's remnant people. Regards, Dave Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: archierieus said: Quote: Robert said: This is a reference to the future 144,000 an end-time event. This is not the subject for it doesn't apply to anyone now! Actually, it is part of the third angel's message, and describes God's people who are living at the time. The same description is used in ch. 12:17, to describe the remnant of the seed of the woman, viz. God's remnant people. Regards, Dave This is still linked to the end-time after the gospel is restored. The third angel's message, according to EGW [and I agree] is "justification by faith." Perhaps there will be a people who have "the faith of Jesus", but that is future and is off the subject. Quote
archierieus Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Robert said: This is still linked to the end-time after the gospel is restored. We are in the end-time now. The time of the end, when [prophetic] time shall be no more, began in 1844. God's last day people are characterized as keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. One cannot either ignore or over-emphasize either of those, at the expense of the other, and still be true to Scripture. Actually, they go together, and form a whole. Regards, Dave Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: archierieus said: Quote: Robert said: This is still linked to the end-time after the gospel is restored. We are in the end-time now. The time of the end, when [prophetic] time shall be no more, began in 1844. God's last day people are characterized as keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. One cannot either ignore or over-emphasize either of those, at the expense of the other, and still be true to Scripture. Actually, they go together, and form a whole. Regards, Dave Well, I'm still looking for this group of people who are living Christ's life of selflessness! What I've found is a bunch of hypocritical, self-righteous braggarts who are not even close to the Christ I know.... Rob Quote
archierieus Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Well, I'm still looking for this group of people who are living Christ's life of selflessness! What I've found is a bunch of hypocritical, self-righteous braggarts who are not even close to the Christ I know.... Rob Actually, I have met some truly wonderful Christians who give every evidence of growing in grace. Over the past few years, I have seen their progress, and I rejoice in the miracle of God's life-changing grace. I am reminded of the chapter title in the book, Acts of the Apostles, "Transformed by Grace," referring to the apostle Peter. I am truly sorry if you do not know such people, but on the other hand, perhaps there is some good there you may be missing. Most people have a lot of good in them. We can either notice the good, and seek to encourage it, or we can notice the warts. Much is in the eye of the beholder. Regards, Dave Quote
Clio Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Robert said: This is still linked to the end-time after the gospel is restored. The third angel's message, according to EGW [and I agree] is "justification by faith." Perhaps there will be a people who have "the faith of Jesus", but that is future and is off the subject. Future? You're pretty out of touch then. I know more people now who have the faith of Jesus and for whom miracles abound in their lives, for themselves, and for those for whom they intercede. Those same people are leaving the churches they have "always attended" and studying for themselves the Sabbath, the Feasts, the apocalyptic prophecies, and starting home churches, witnessing to the lost, waiting expectantly for a literal Second Coming, while loving Jesus to their utmost. And when they find out I've an Adventist background, and know about all this, they want to know why they've never heard of SDA's. Sadly, I've encouraged several of them in the last year to visit an SDA church. One in Oregon, one in Toronto, and one in Florida. None of them ever went back because of how they were treated. There is a whole group of people who are being prepared and taught by the Holy Spirit, because churchianity has nullified much of the witness of those who should know better. And those people, who are coming out of the apostate churches, are NOT flocking to the SDA church, because they know all about churchianity and have rejected it. Instead, they are flocking to the Bible, to Jesus, and under HIS guidance are starting home churches, small cell groups, and worship teams. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place.
Moderators Gerr Posted January 19, 2006 Moderators Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Does the statement mean I'll never get to the point where I can overcome the besetting sin? Sins Gerrry...sins [plural]! [:"blue"]OK. Does the statement mean we will never to the point where we can overcome the besetting sins? [:"red"]Those who sin are opposed to the law of God, for all sin opposes the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, for there is no sin in him. So if we continue to live in him, we won't sin either. But those who keep on sinning have never known him or understood who he is." 1 Jn 3:4-6 NLT [/] [/] Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 19, 2006 Moderators Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: "This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men." Mt 15:8,9 NASB. Legalism is the doctrine of man....! Thank you! [:"blue"]Careful there, Rob. You are treading on very dangerous ground when you attribute the works produced by the Holy Spirit in the lives of obedient believers to works of man. [/] Quote: Quote: "Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus." Rev 14:12 NASB. This is a reference to the future 144,000 an end-time event. This is not the subject for it doesn't apply to anyone now! [:"blue"]Here is part of your problem. Everything is still in the future or in the by & by. Friend, we are on the verge of eternity. [/] Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 19, 2006 Moderators Posted January 19, 2006 If you are looking for 144,000 homeless people, Robert, there is over that number in California, 88,000 of them in LA county alone! Gerry Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Most people have a lot of good in them. We can either notice the good, and seek to encourage it, or we can notice the warts. Much is in the eye of the beholder. "For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh [my humanity]." Yes...the Spirit is good, but we are not the Spirit. We can to a point let Him have our humanity to reflect Christ, but technically there's nothing good in us because of the fall. So I don't know what measuring stick you are using, but I am looking at the selfless life of Christ....When I do that I see "nothing good"....The best of us are selfish! Yes we grow...yet there's self-seeking in our lives.... Legalists are the worst because they attribute all their goodies to their law-performance. They are the most covetous group I have ever seen in Christian circles. As Christ says, "All they do is to be seen of men." The Adventists church is full of these types.... Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Quote: Robert said: Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Does the statement mean I'll never get to the point where I can overcome the besetting sin ? Sins Gerrry...sins [plural]! [:"blue"]OK. Does the statement mean we will never [come] to the point where we can overcome [all] besetting sins? Yes! according to EGW.... Quote
Robert Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: If you are looking for 144,000 homeless people, Robert, there is over that number in California, 88,000 of them in LA county alone! Gerry The first indicator will be the restoration of the gospel....You and many Sadventist oppose the truth as it is in Christ. Homelessness doesn't prove righteousness....I can give up all my possessions, but if I do it for any reason outside agape love...it is a worthless jesture. [see 1 cor 13:3] Homelessness is not God's desire....Christ didn't want to be homeless....It was a result of living a selfless life in a selfish world. The last generation will experience wretched poverty because they are reflecting Christ's selfless life to a world that has gone belly up....They are completely dependent upon Christ and that gives Him permission to reveal His life through them. Rob Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 20, 2006 Moderators Posted January 20, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Quote: Robert said: Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Does the statement mean I'll never get to the point where I can overcome the besetting sin? Sins Gerrry...sins [plural]! [:"blue"]OK. Does the statement mean we will never [come] to the point where we can overcome [all] besetting sins? Yes! according to EGW.... [:"blue"]Would you please cite chapter & verse where she said that? Here are some quotes from her. "God has made ample provision for His people, and if they rely upon His strength, they will never become the sport of circumstances. The strongest temptation cannot excuse sin. However great the pressure brought to bear upon the soul, transgression is our own act. It is not in the power of earth or hell to compel anyone to do evil. Satan attacks us at our weak points, but we need not be overcome. However severe or unexpected the assault, God has provided help for us, and in His strength we may conquer. CC ch. 104. "The tempter can never co0mpel us to do evil. He cannot control minds unless they are yielded to his control. The will must consent, faith must let go its hold upon Christ, before Satan can exercise his power upon us. But every sinful desire we cherish affords him a foothold. Every point in which we failo of meeting the divine standard is an open door by which he can enter to tempt and destroy us. And every failure or defeat on our part gives occasion for him to reproach Christ." DA 125. "Satan had questioned whether Jesus was the Son of God. In his summary dismissal he had proof that he could not gainsay. Divinity flashed through suffering humanity. Satan had no power to resist the command. Writhing with humilation and rage, he was forced to withdraw from the presence of the world's Redeemer. Christ's victory was as complete as had been the failure of Adam. So we may resist temptation, and force Satan to depart from us. Jesus gained the victory through submission and faith in God, and by the apostle He says to us, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you." James 4:7,8. We cannot save ourselves from the tempter's power; he has conquered humanity, and when we try to stand in our own strength, we shall become prey to his devices; but "the name of the Lord is a strong tower; the righteous runneth into it, and is safe." Prov 18:10. Satan trembles and flees before the weakest soul who finds refuge in that mighty name." Ibid 130,131 [/] Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 20, 2006 Moderators Posted January 20, 2006 Sorry, but the gospel according to Robert has its origin from the abyss. If you are looking for your brand of the gospel to be adopted by the church, that will never happen in your lifetime or a thousand generations. Gerry Quote
benherndon Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 To whomever: What is a 'besetting sin'? Give me a list of besetting sins from any source, especially from the Bible or EGW. Oh, yes, I know one that is listed from EGW---it is the 'love of money'. The "love of money" is not one of the Ten Commandments, you know! (Don't bore me with some other Ten Cs commandment 'covering' the 'love of money', do you hear?---I have a whole page of sins not listed in the Ten Commandments) Give me a list from the Bible or EGW of named 'besetting sins', please! "If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrong-doing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one does not touch him. WE know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. WE know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true----even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Dear children, keep yourselves from idols." 1John 5:16-21 OK, let's see the list of 'besetting sins'. Ben P.S.---Maybe we ought to define 'sin' also. "Sin" in the NT is not exactly the same as "Sin" in the OT----but maybe that is a subject for another thread. Think about it though. B. Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Hi Dr. Ben, This is how I have learned to view sin, Note the word "ALSO" 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. That tells me that when we sin we also do something else. What might that be??? Transgress. Transgress what? The law So then what might sin be? Joh 16:8 "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me ;" So if we don't believe in Christ we are sinning which will leads to transgression of God's law. If you look at sin as only trangression of God's law then you will not doubt think that if you don't transgress you are not sinning, right? That's us, that's our mentality, but Jesus helps us see sin and John has it right in the KJV. Go back to the beginning in Eden, Eve believed the lie and then ...Transgression. So it would stand to reason that if we saw that and believed that we could do something about it. BUt left to our selves we are powerless so God sent His Son to destroy the lies of the devil that we might see God as He is and believe. This will lead us to a life of fulfillment. The question come to us then in this form, Do you truly believe in Christ? That He came in the flesh and revealed the Father.Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. That interesting Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Clio Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Quote: Norman said: Hi Dr. Ben, The question come to us then in this form, Do you truly believe in Christ? That He came in the flesh and revealed the Father.Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. That interesting Norman (bolding mine) And there you have it. Heart-knowledge as opposed to Head knowledge. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place.
benherndon Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Norm, Clio and others: I am waiting for a list of "besetting sins"!!!!!!! Just give me that list, please, PLEASE! I don't want to hear any preaching ABOUT 'besetting sins' if you don't know what you're talking about, please. I looked up my EGW CD-ROM and there are 46 references to 'besetting sins'...but I could only find one 'besetting sin' defined. It was: "The love of money is a besetting sin." Check it out for yourselves. I want other besetting sins listed. Don't be afraid to list them...nobody is perfect....that is..TODAY, at least! I'm among those who haven't 'attained' YET, too! And...I'm about to croak! I'm gonna keep asking and anybody who punts is going to be called a 'punter' by me....haha! Norm...talk to you later about your post. If I don't, you remind me, please. Keep lookin' up! It's just about that easy, folks! Ben Quote
Clio Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Ben - Besetting sins is not a term I use. Why are you looking for a list from me? I will be glad to tell you what I think others mean when they use this term, but it's not a term I use or have identified in my spiritual lexicon. I tend to use terms like deliberate sin and tripping. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place.
Robert Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Would you please cite chapter & verse where she said that? -PC- ST -PT- The Signs of the Times -DT- 06-09-81 -AT- Idolatry Punished -PR- 21 Our earthly life, however long, honored, or useful it may be, is but childhood, frail, imperfect, and undeveloped. Manhood, with its full, perfect, glorious development, will come, when, freed from the taint of sin, we stand among the redeemed throng. Then we shall enjoy a life which measures with the life of God, and through everlasting ages we shall go on increasing in wisdom and knowledge. -BC- AA -TI- The Acts of the Apostles -CN- 55 -CT- Transformed by Grace -PR- 03 -PG- 560 So long as Satan reigns, we shall have self to subdue, besetting sins to overcome; so long as life shall last, there will be no stopping place, no point which we can reach and say, I have fully attained. Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 Dr Ben, A beseting sin would be anything that will deaded my spirit. For example, I like sweets and have to be carefull about eating too much. If I do it makes me sleepy and carnal. That for me is a beseting sin, if you will. But when I do that, I know the reason I do it. My forgetfullness of what God has done for me. All things that pull my spirit down are the result of that and reveal a deeper issue. So when I see myself craving, I think, "Hey Norm what's wrong? you're drifting." Here's a verse that helps me see this 2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins . PS No Croaking allowed on this forum Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Robert Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 Quote: benherndon said: Norm, Clio and others: I am waiting for a list of "besetting sins"!!!!!!! Just give me that list, please, PLEASE! I'll give you one that every believer is doing over and over.... Turn to 1 Cor 1:13 --Love is...not self-seeking. Remember "love is the fulfillment of the law"...right? Now this doesn't deny that we grow in grace, but it does deny that we aren't measuring up! Think about it...just about everything we do is based on selfishness as opposed to living a life free of self-centered thoughts and actions. When I went to work today, did I go there because I love you and want to place you first or did I go because I love me? The latter....This is not true of Christ as EGW stated: “You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439] Sounds like all of us have besetting sin, huh? Rob Quote
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