Ferguson is Everywhere, Mike Brown Anniversary Events in St. Louis

[bonnie]

Ferguson Protesters Now Protest… Not Being Paid Enough To Protest

Yes, you read that right.

Steven Crowder May 26, 2015 at 8:14am

It has come to light in the last couple of days that about a week ago, protesters who protested in Ferguson protested the people who hired them to protest for not paying for their protest fast enough.

If you want to read that again, please do.

On May 14, protesters, upset with not being paid their promised checks for protesting, protested outside MORE, Missourians Organizing For Reform and Empowerment, an ACORN organization which had received funding through George Soros to fund the protests.

 

[Gerr]

So it seems like they are protesting about nothing's then. Oh well!

Laz, as a minority who came out of poverty, I am really trying very hard to understand.  If you don't want to educate me, then I shall remain ignorant until someone else could give me some answers.

[Outta Here]

People all over the world want the same things; things you likely struggled for as well. It's a struggle for all, but for some it's attainable with little help. 

[Aliensanctuary]

It's the increasing lack of respect for law, order, and authority, and, the ever-increasing lack of respect for other people and their property that create confrontations with peace officers. These behaviors aren't limited to any one class of people in particular, either, but the media choses their own stories to play. Anyone who resists compliance with a law officer's orders might expect that things could rapidly escalate and not go well for them. 

If Michael Brown's dad had raised him to respect others and their property, we might have never heard of him. Maybe if his mama had found out he was trying to rob a store, came down, grabbed him by the ear, and marched him home to get a "licking" from his daddy, he never would have disrespected and attacked a police officer. Instead, his parents were impotent wimps who raised an out-of-control monster. Every one of the looters, shooters, and arsonists should have had parents who put the fear of God into them and made sure that they didn't lie, cheat, steal, or hurt anyone. Without parental discipline, they, too, are out of control monsters who care nothing for the people they are harming.

Again, if young black men, or anyone else no matter what their skin color is, respect the laws of the land, respect officers of the law, and respect the property and lives of other people, there would be no more cops shooting suspects or suspects shooting cops.

Now, if the news media covered the epidemic of blacks killing blacks 24/7 there might be marches and vigils and protests and legislation and education to eradicate the descent into murderous anarchy. Apparently, though, black lives should matter only to white cops, not to other gun-toting blacks whose black body count far, far surpasses that of white officers of the law. Black Lives Matter wouldn't exist if all blacks were responsible citizens, but when blacks attack the police and pay for it with their lives, the news media creates a circus and a victimhood.

All Michael Brown and friends had to do was to stop walking down the middle of the road, per the officer's request, move to the side of the road, and he would still be alive. Maybe he would have paid a visit to the court for assaulting and robbing a shopkeeper, but that's nothing. He, alone, is responsible for escalating a minor event into a catastrophic one which he paid for dearly with his life. Maybe he didn't want to live, anymore.

If I had a gun and someone was trying to get my gun and kill me, I would not hesitate to use that gun to defend myself.

[lazarus]

I am really trying very hard to understand.  

Your very first post indicates the opposite. What does you being a minority have to do with it? There are many people who take the attitudes and perspectives of the majority. 

[Gerr]

Your very first post indicates the opposite. What does you being a minority have to do with it? There are many people who take the attitudes and perspectives of the majority. 

Here was my first post on this thread which was a reply to Aubrey's post:  "Does Monday's "A Day of Civil Disobedience and a National Call to Action" include a time for rioting and looting?"  It was meant to be cynical,  sarcastic, and humorous.

And here was my first post in response to your comment:

          On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2015‎ ‎5‎:‎36‎:‎18‎, lazarus said:

"others see a stupid kid committing suicide by cop."

And those same individuals fundamentally misunderstand the issues that Michael Brown's death raised. Unfortunately more people and police will die until things change.

Gerry:

And what are the changes you or these people are looking for?  As I see it, the issues raised by the M Brown incident is very simple - if/when confronted by law officers who are risking their lives to protect society, is it asking too much for a citizen to comply?  If the officer is guilty of misdeed, then pursue it through the courts.  That is far safer than confronting an armed person!

 

The first sentence above was a sincere desire to know.  If there is anything in it that means the opposite, then it's my bad.  I still want to know.

What does being a minority have to do with it?  Because Blacks are a minority, and my tribe is even a smaller minority, but I see the USA as a cornucopia of opportunity.  l can register and vote, so can you.  I can marry any woman who will take me, so can you.  I can go to school anywhere my grades and pocketbook/loans can take me, so can you.  I can live and buy a house anywhere my checkbook can take me, so can you.  I've had many traffic tickets in my life without any trouble with a cop because I respected their authority, so can you. This is no longer the era of the KKK, Gov. Wallace, or Bull Connor.  This is no longer the South that I went through in the late 50's as a brown person not knowing which way to go when I saw the signs, "Whites Only" or "Blacks Only".  This is not to say that our country does not have problems.  On a personal level there will ALWAYS be people, employers, cops, etc. who do not like you or me because we look different, but as a matter of national policy, that is no longer the case.  So I am personally at a loss as to what changes you or the protesters or the rioters and looters in Ferguson or wherever are looking for.  If you don't want to answer, just say so, maybe somebody else will.

 

[Outta Here]

Protesters want the same things everyone else wants. The equal opportunity to get that vote in; the equal opportunity to go to those good schools; the equal opportunity to access those loans; the equal opportunity to live in those neighborhoods; the equal opportunity to simply cross a street. People everywhere want to be treated fairly and without prejudice. 

Many people have been able to rise above the poverty they were born in and have helped to make the world a better place. There are many exceptions, but the more common experience is oppression in poverty.

Here's a story about an exceptional young man who is working to rise above the poverty he is was born in: Normandy Transfer Student Rides Bike 30 Miles After Missing Bus 

The tax dollars we pay go to help fund his education. An equal part goes to help fund my niece's education. She is able to ride a bus to the same school. But, because her parents can afford to live in the more affluent part of town, her bus comes much later in the morning. She has time to sleep in and then get a healthy breakfast. 

I could go on and on about the differences in the experiences both young people will have throughout the day. But what it comes down to is privilege. Often times privileged people wear blinders that they are not aware of. They see themselves as hard-working individuals who have earned their way through life. And in many cases, they are hard-working individuals who have earned their way! But their path was easy compared to the paths others face. 

For some, getting there is a hop on the bus. For others, it's a 5 hour bike ride.

Uphill.

Both ways.

 

 

 

[lazarus]

 It was meant to be cynical,  sarcastic, and humorous.

This is to belabor the point here but I think it's necessary.

Where does the cynicism and sarcasm come from if you are really trying to understand. That was your first reaction and that's why I don't buy your earnest desire to know now. It's easy to google BLM etc. and see what people are thinking. I am one person and don't speak for all black people by the way.

I've spent so much time going back on forth with this because this is key issue in this whole debate. What angers people more even than anything is the cynicism and the dismissal. Folk will dismiss these people in the streets and then turn around and say they are persecuted because of LGBT issues. It makes me want to vomit.

[lazarus]

Often times privileged people wear blinders that they are not aware of. They see themselves as hard-working individuals who have earned their way through life. And in many cases, they are hard-working individuals who have earned their way! But their path was easy compared to the paths others face. 

Spot on.

[Liz]

 

I could go on and on about the differences in the experiences both young people will have throughout the day. But what it comes down to is privilege. Often times privileged people wear blinders that they are not aware of. They see themselves as hard-working individuals who have earned their way through life. And in many cases, they are hard-working individuals who have earned their way! But their path was easy compared to the paths others face. 

I'm sorry, but boohoo that's life. No one said anything would be easy for any one. And quite honestly no one has an easy life--when one looks at someone else's life and wishes yours was so easy, once you really get to know that person one realizes that they either came from humble beginnings, have medical problems or have other issues that one wouldn't want to deal with. There is a saying that if you put all of your problems into a pile with everyone else's problems, you would happily take yours back.

Just because one is tired of their own problems, doesn't give them the right to loot, steal and burn and create problems for other people. If there is going to be change, then practice civil disobedience, but first and foremost be civil, act like a thug and your message gets lost.

But I'm also at a loss as to what "change" needs to happen. If one wants better opportunities then create them. No one just handed me a degree, or a house, or even a car. Tired of being shot by police? Then be compliant when they ask one to do something. Don't run at them or try and grab their gun.  Tired of drugs and gangs in your neighborhood? Then work with the police to get them out, instead of making the police the enemy and then crying about the need for change.

Look up "Victim Mentality"--I do believe that that is a lot of what is going on.

[Outta Here]

Nm

Edited August 13, 2015 by Aubrey
Nevermind

[lazarus]

 

But I'm also at a loss as to what "change" needs to happen. If one wants better opportunities then create them. No one just handed me a degree, or a house, or even a car. Tired of being shot by police? Then be compliant when they ask one to do something. Don't run at them or try and grab their gun.  Tired of drugs and gangs in your neighborhood? Then work with the police to get them out, instead of making the police the enemy and then crying about the need for change.

Look up "Victim Mentality"--I do believe that that is a lot of what is going on.

This is an excellent summary of the way most whites see the situation and a few black people too. I have some questions:

How have think we have arrived at this point in society?

What would you say it is about black people that makes them act this way?

If your perspective is accurate why do think people don't just do the things that you say they should do?

What do you think the white Christian should do and say in response to this situation?

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by lazarus

[CoAspen]

Laz,

I have a couple of thoughts on your above post.

Based on what I read, see and hear from the media, much of the issue revolves around hopelessness. Not seeing much change in your community from the past and then reaching a boiling point when an issue arrives. Sometimes the response is not the most  productive, but it takes place anyway. I would say some black communities may feel this way more than others because of the historical past of where they are. 

I doubt the average WASP can fully understand the issues involved because of our history of always coming out on top. As a culture we have not been repressed in the past or at any time. 

The old saying 'walk a mile in an others shoes'.......

[Gerr]

 This is an excellent summary of the way most whites see the situation and a few black people too. I have some questions:

How have think we have arrived at this point in society?

What would you say it is about black people that makes them act this way?

If your perspective is accurate why do think people don't just do the things that you say they should do?

What do you think the white Christ should do and say in response to this situation?

 

I'm beginning to repeat myself, but since you continue to refuse to answer what changes need to made to satisfy the protesters, rioters, and looters, I find it necessary to repeat the gains towards equality in this great country.  I am not white, but I would venture to say that most other minorities share my views. 

Here are the "rights" that minorities fought for in the past.

Citizenship  - granted.  The right to vote - done. Segregated schools, housing - gone.  Anti-miscegenation laws - struck down.  Overt discrimination - outlawed. Quotas have even been established in many cases to accommodate minorities.  So what other changes do you want?

"How have think we have arrived at this point in society?"

All the  things most people want have  been achieved and open to all, what other changes do you still want?  Do you want to look back to what it once was or dwell on the opportunities you now have?T

"What would you say it is about black people that makes them act this way?"

With all the honest efforts put forth to solve the problems and the tremendous progress made, I honestly am at a loss why they act this way.  That is why I am asking the  question, what  further changes need to be made to satisfy the protesters, rioters, and looters.

"If your perspective is accurate why do think people don't just do the things that you say they should do?"

My perspective is that if I take advantage of all these opportunities, I'd be fine.  Obviously, that is not working for the protesters, rioters, and looters. That is why I honestly want to know your perspective and  that of the protesters, rioters, and looters.  What changes should be made to make you and them successful?

"What do you think the white Christ should do and say in response to this situation?"

I don't know what the "white Christ" would do, but the Christ I know said, "Love your neighbor as yourself," "Do to  others what you would have them  do to you."  And that I try  to practice.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
correction

[Tom Wetmore]

A start even if you don't have the answers is to listen to the questions...  really listen.  with respect.  and honesty.

[Gerr]

A start even if you don't have the answers is to listen to the questions...  really listen.  with respect.  and honesty.

Are you saying that I'm not "really listening", that I am disrespectful, and dishonest??

[Tom Wetmore]

I am not certain why you thought I was talking to you in particular.   

[Gerr]

 

Tom:  I am not certain why you thought I was talking to you in particular.   

 

Gerry:  Tom, how am I to interpret your post in which you did not address it to anyone in particular but which immediately followed my post?  So whom did you have in mind?  Am I not THE one or one of  the  "you" that you were  refering to who don't have the answers who was not really listening, was disrespectful, and dishonest? 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
additional thought

[lazarus]

Laz,

I have a couple of thoughts on your above post.

Based on what I read, see and hear from the media, much of the issue revolves around hopelessness.

Yes. It's quite interesting to explore what emotions drive rage and anger. I think hopelessness is one of them. Perhaps fear, frustration and even depression, even trauma. Folks always wonder why people burn their own neighborhood. They don't see it as theirs. How's that for alienation.

Edited August 13, 2015 by lazarus

[lazarus]

"What do you think the white Christ should do and say in response to this situation?"

this was a typo, should be "white  Christian"

[lazarus]

I'm beginning to repeat myself, but since you continue to refuse to answer what changes need to made to satisfy the protesters, rioters, and looters, I find it necessary to repeat the gains towards equality in this great country.  I am not white, but I would venture to say that most other minorities share my views. 

Since we are repeating....Where does the cynicism and sarcasm come from if you are really trying to understand? Conflating protesters with looters is telling. If you want to assert that these folk on the streets have nothing to protest about that's OK.

What makes you think most minorities share your views?

[Gerr]

Since we are repeating....Where does the cynicism and sarcasm come from if you are really trying to understand? Conflating protesters with looters is telling. If you want to assert that these folk on the streets have nothing to protest about that's OK.

What makes you think most minorities share your views?

I have already repeated that most of the major grievances such as citizenship, voting rights, segregated schools, housing, public businesses, miscegnation laws, discrimination in the workplace, designated quotas for minorities,  etc. have been addressed, that's why I'm cynical, so what else do you want to change?  Or are you just going to play the victim and just continue to say, "You just don't understand?"  Yes, I don't understand, that's why I am seeking for answers as to why people continue to riot and loot.  You continue to see property burned and looted and people killed, yet you refuse to say what changes you are expecting to be made!  Take Baltimore for example.  It is 63% Black.  The mayor is black.  The police is 54% black.  I can't find the stats on the racial make-up of the politicians that run the city of Baltimore, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority is not black. The businesses are 35% black.  So who are they rioting and looting against in Baltimore?  And for what reason?

Why do I venture to say that most minorities share my views?  Talk to any Korean, Vietnamese, Indian, Filipino, or any Asian immigrant and see how many of them are not confounded and appalIed by the violent protests going on in different parts of the country.  Talk to immigrant Carribean blacks and see how they feel.  I  just read recently that Nigerian immigrants are among the most successful immigrants in the USA no matter who you compare them to, white, brown, yellow, or whatever.  Why  We have a president whose father was from Kenya.  Talk to my brother who worked himself through college, or his wife.  He is married to a Virgin Islander who is part black.  I'll give you his phone number if you want.

You want to explore the emotions that drive rage and anger, and you mention hopelessness.  And yet we have illegals by the millions the vast majority of whom do not even speak the language and yet find hope and opportunity in this country.  

Edited August 14, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
add a thought

[B/W Photodude]

Talk to immigrant Carribean blacks and see how they feel.  I  just read recently that Nigerian immigrants are among the most successful immigrants in the USA no matter who you compare them to, white, brown, yellow, or whatever.

Talk to my brother who worked himself through college, or his wife.  He is married to a Virgin Islander who is part black.  I'll give you his phone number if you want.

My wife who is Dominican and thus is mixed Black, Caribe Indian, Spanish, and French is appalled at the behavior of:

Many Blacks in this country and all the rioting, etc, going on.

She is also appalled at the behavior of the women in this country towards the men.

Many men are finding that a  woman from another country will make for a much more pleasant relationship.

Poetic justice: a radfem woman who marries a Muslam and goes back to his country!

[Liz]

This is an excellent summary of the way most whites see the situation and a few black people too. I have some questions:

How have think we have arrived at this point in society? I have no idea how we got to this point. From slavery and it being illegal to teach a slave to read, to free education for everyone, to rioting. I honestly don't know how we made that awful turn.

What would you say it is about black people that makes them act this way? I really don't know. I would like to be enlightened. My theory is "Victim Mentality". If that isn't it then I would like to know what it is.

If your perspective is accurate why do think people don't just do the things that you say they should do? Again if my theory is correct "Victim Mentality".

What do you think the white Christian should do and say in response to this situation? Nothing I do or say can fix someone else's situation if they are unwilling to change things themselves. It's like the battered wife syndrome, one can drive her to a shelter, but if she doesn't want to work her program, she'll go back to her abuser husband, or find another man that is just as bad. In other words, she has got to want to change bad enough that she'll change herself, her attitude, her lifestyle. She'll accept accountability, and work on improving herself. No one can do it for her.

 

[CoAspen]

A start even if you don't have the answers is to listen to the questions...  really listen.  with respect.  and honesty.

The answers to the questions of Laz seem to demonstrate  the above statement.  When it comes to issue of racial problems, a pronounced lack of listening. Laz gives some possible reasons and yet persons keep asking why we have the issues of unhappiness and rioting from time to time.

Laz says...It's quite interesting to explore what emotions drive rage and anger. I think hopelessness is one of them. Perhaps fear, frustration and even depression, even trauma. Folks always wonder why people burn their own neighborhood. They don't see it as theirs. How's that for alienation.

Some responses to Laz...

>From slavery and it being illegal to teach a slave to read, to free education for everyone, to rioting. I honestly don't know how we made that awful turn.<

>My theory is "Victim Mentality". <

>accept accountability, and work on improving herself. No one can do it for her.<

>So who are they rioting and looting against in Baltimore?  And for what reason? <

>appalled at the behavior of: Many Blacks in this country and all the rioting, etc, going on. Many men are finding that a  woman from another country will make for a much more pleasant relationship.<

 

Is any one listening or doing any critical thinking? So far, not! Many of the same thoughts are expressed about persons on welfare.....victim mentality!  How convenient. I will repeat it again, unless you have a history, long history of oppression/ slavery, you can't give flip answers or ones that may be true for  others. We need to think outside our little boxes, ask questions, listen to the responses, try to understand what those responses are saying about us as a nation. We don't have to agree with what is happening, but we do need understand that the concerns are real and legitimate to those expressing them. I do not see that happening in many of the posts to this  point.

Laz is a good sounding board, listen and think about what he is saying/suggesting. He isn't running for any office.