Ferguson is Everywhere, Mike Brown Anniversary Events in St. Louis

[CoAspen]

racism
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Yeah, I am bringing us the word, because I believe it is an important part of the issue. It is historical and cultural in this country, still today. Look at the highlighted words and don't think 'black'! When we fell superior to someone else we cross over/dance close to the line of racism.

prejudice
noun
1 preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience:

Yup, this is part of the issue also, do any of us have an actual experience of slavery?

Conservative religious thought is rife with prejudice and influences our thinking about the lives of others, ie must believe or think a certain way to be 'saved'.

[CoAspen]

Now, throw the stick and stones, I don't care or start some critical thinking!

                                                                                     

[Liz]

If you looked up "Victim Mentality" everything that Laz said is in there. But I say it and suddenly I'm not listening? I'm not being trite when I say it, it is an actual thing, look it up.

As for the other, how do you get someone to feel like they belong to their own neighborhood? What makes immigrants feel like this is their new country?

 

Edited August 14, 2015 by Liz
finish a thought

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

 do any of us have an actual experience of slavery?

there's not supposed to be any slaves in the US now... but, in general, the attitudes and demeanor of white folks towards black folks hasn't really changed all that much...  So telling black folks to change their circumstances and pull themselves up by their bootstraps might work for a few, but, really... they aren't stupid people who need to be told what to do to change their circumstances.  That's why they tell their children they'll have to work twice as hard as their white peers in order to succeed.  I supposed that could be considered to be a "victim mentality," in that they [rightly] know that the playing field isn't equal, and never has been.  But that same "victim mentality" is can be helpful to warn against the obstacles that will be encountered in life.  It's best to be prepared.

I dunno.  The Ferguson episodes are really temperature gauges of the burgeoning discontent of the black population with the status quo.  I definitely didn't like seeing the rampaging, looting, burning, and shootings.  But will the white population really listen to words rather than actions?

 

[Aliensanctuary]

I don't know if anyone posting here has suffered the hopelessness of depression, but maybe the blacks living in the cities are collectively suffering from something like that.

What's the cure?

Like someone mentioned previously, these people need hope, hope that things can and are getting better by taking action themselves to fix the problems. No government program throwing away money by giving it to the wrong people can do this. The people in the black neighborhoods, including the non-blacks, need to re-take their neighborhoods to make them safe for everyone. If they create organizations to facilitate and empower the people to make a change, they can start meeting their goals.

Call the umbrella organization "Black Lives Matter, Inc." or whatever. The good, honest, dependable people are going to have to volunteer to patrol their neighborhoods, like neighborhood watch groups. They'll need to start up some "Mom and Pop" stores and restaurants and other businesses nearby where the people can buy from each other rather than from the big box stores. Bakeries, barbershops, hair salons, quick-marts, video rentals, lawn care, day care, phone and computer stores, house and car repair, etc., are some examples that would create jobs. This would require low cost job training, but I'm sure there are some who would be willing to help out. The neighborhoods could also sponsor police officer, fire fighter, and EMT training for the young men and women of their choice.

The neighborhood could even elect their own honorary "mayor" who's tough enough to cut through the official city BS and get the things done that need to be done. United, with a goal of self-improvement, these people could change their stars, one block at a time. I can see 500 to 1000 people or more standing in front of city hall until permits are issued and improvements are made while the news cameras are rolling. They should even have their own flag to fly to let everyone know that they are in control, now, not the drug dealers, thieves, pimps, arsonists, and murderers.

As I see it, the blacks have created their own victimhood by the destructive and harmful anti-social behaviors of far too many, and by dependence on welfare. If they want change, they're going to have to fix it themselves, not with knives and guns and firebombs, but with peaceful, united determination and hard work to make the changes they want.

[bonnie]

.

As I see it, the blacks have created their own victimhood by the destructive and harmful anti-social behaviors of far too many, and by dependence on welfare. If they want change, they're going to have to fix it themselves, not with knives and guns and firebombs, but with peaceful, united determination and hard work to make the changes they want.

Black or white,those living in poverty/ghettos today have so much more than those of the past. There is education available,medical care is assured,food stamps removes the fear of not being able to feed their children,

When you have two parties regardless of skin color,same circumstances and background,one makes it and the other is still sitting in the ghetto,blaming everyone else,there is a missing link that no amount of welfare can provide. Motivation/determination.

Between my husband and I we see several medical specialists. At least  3/4 of them are minorities. My husband's black oncologist did not get where he is by "looting,burning,and destroying what belongs to another. He is there because of a lot of self sacrifice and grueling hard hours.

To many,black or white without family aid pull themselves out of the  ghetto.They put the taxpayer support to good use to better themselves. You don't better yourself by destroying and stealing what belongs to others.

[bonnie]

I know many of these so called protesters are hired to protest. I dont believe most families, black or white are involved in the destruction. Racism like welfare is big business.

[Tom Wetmore]

I suspect a fair bit of myth making underway...  

A lot that is being said is not based on reality, accurate facts or first hand objective eye witness to events on the ground.  I think it quite reasonable to assume that very few, if any, posting here is on sight reporting or participating or living where these events are occurring.  We are getting highly filter glimpses of scenes and sound bites for sensationalistic consumption perpetuated by  the media and those with ulterior motives from all perspectives on the issues.  And when that stuff get rehashed here with a healthy dose of hyperbole and inflammatory rhetoric and attitude, this discussion is of no real value and does nothing to help.  It just hardens exist get attitudes, opinions, etc.  

It is like many of the overheated discussions here on politics, other social controversies and religious topics.  Overheated, exaggerated rhetoric generating far more heat than light with most participants just shout past each other with nobody really listening or truly communicating.  It all does more harm than good.

a starting point is to listen far more than speaking. And only speak of what one has real genuine experience and/or knowledge. Give the facts without embellishment exaggeration or use of inflammatory language.

[bonnie]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/19/hired-black-lives-matter-protesters-start-cutthech/#ixzz3acmWpseK

 

For five years I worked with just about every race on the planet. Because of the flexibility it was ideal for entry level,families wanting to supplement their existing income around their other jobs,students etc. It offered excellent opportunity for advancement,classes in the various depts, regular bonus,and additional pay for those wanting to work over and above their 4 hour shift.

During that time those singing the  "I can't I am discriminated" against,were still singing the same song when I left,just a new verse concerning their plight. Skin color was not the deciding factor in I can. Backgrounds were varied but those that wanted either to advance,work the extra hours for higher pay and wanted the bonuses offered were not in the same place when I left. The I can't crowd had not progressed since their first day,still waiting for someone to pave the way for them. Regardless of skin color,gender,or nationality those that had the motivation and determination succeeded.

The worst dressing down of the I can't crowd came from a middle aged black woman who literally clouded up and rained all over a young black man singing the racist blues. Even being a black on black confrontation I am totally amazed she didn't get fired. Everyone within hearing distance more or less froze . He was as shocked when she told him he made her ashamed to be black,in fact she was ashamed to admit they both belonged to the human race.Her life had not been one of privilege,had never taken a dime of welfare,her and her husband always had a job. Might not be the best but they kept at it until they found something better.

When I left four years later he was still singing the same some,while the middle aged black woman,without a high school diploma was now head manager of one of the larger depts

[bonnie]

We had two young men that were totally deaf. One lived at home with his parents because he was deaf and it was to hard to live on his own. The other worked another full time job and then the early morning shift. The one constantly complained about the unfairness of life,being deaf there wasn't much chance he could ever really succeed.He lasted about 6 weeks and then he was let go. He blamed being deaf on the termination. The other deaf man worked roughly 18 months saving every dime of his part time job and then began his own landscaping business. He claimed he was far to busy to worry about someone not liking the fact he was deaf

[Gerr]

Now, throw the stick and stones, I don't care or start some critical thinking!

                                                                                     

And you are the only one doing the critical thinking?  Can you show one post, especially from mine, where I or anyone has made a statement about one race being inferior or superior to another?  And who is not listening?  Who is not doing some critical thinking?  It wasn't just me who was asking what changes Laz and the protesters/rioters/looters would like to see, but there has been none offered.  Laz would rather talk about their feelings, of rage and anger about hopelessness, fear, and depression.  If you fall into a latrine, how long are you going to talk about your feelings about the indignity of feeling malodorous and start the critical thinking of getting out of it?  If you find that your perspective doesn't seem to be working but the other person's perspective seem to be working well, isn't it time for some critical thinking and try something else?  I'm a solution-oriented person.  To me, if you want progress, state the problem as clearly as you can, then let's do some critical thinking and find the solution.  It doesn't do anyone any good to just keep repeating, "We've got a problem, we've got a problem, we've got a problem!"

As for the actual experience of slavery, we all have our own history which are no less relevant than those of have come out of slavery.  The question is, do you want to walk forward while looking backwards?  Do you want to commemorate the life of a petty thief and a bully instead of someone like George Washington Carver?  Idolize rappers with their vile verses or admire the likes of Dr. Carson?  Listen to Jackson and Sharpton or listen someone like Barry Black?  

Edited August 14, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
addition

[Gerr]

 Give the facts without embellishment exaggeration or use of inflammatory language.

Inflammatory language?  Ahem!

[Liz]

We had two young men that were totally deaf. One lived at home with his parents because he was deaf and it was to hard to live on his own. The other worked another full time job and then the early morning shift. The one constantly complained about the unfairness of life,being deaf there wasn't much chance he could ever really succeed.He lasted about 6 weeks and then he was let go. He blamed being deaf on the termination. The other deaf man worked roughly 18 months saving every dime of his part time job and then began his own landscaping business. He claimed he was far to busy to worry about someone not liking the fact he was deaf

You see this in the blind community as well (no pun intended). The local DARS office was very limited in their suggestions on how Dan could go to back to college, because so many chose to draw disability checks and just meet up for the social events. We eventually just did it on our own.

[B/W Photodude]

Carson critical of Black Lives Matter message, strategy of disrupting campaign events

“Of course not,” Carson said. “I would like them to start paying attention to the carnage rather than making it a political issue. The most common cause of death for young black males in cities is homicide.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/15/carson-critical-black-lives-matter-message-strategy-disrupting-campaign-event/?intcmp=hpbt3

 

[lazarus]

  Talk to immigrant Carribean blacks and see how they feel. 

 

Where do you think I'm from? Who do you think make up the vast majority of my church? Who do you think most of my friends are. LOL

Most immigrant condemn the riots but are not where you are. Most African Americans condemn the violence but don't take a white persons perspective.

Do you think Koreans, Indians etc don't riot? Check the news.

Edited August 17, 2015 by lazarus

[lazarus]

It is 63% Black.  The mayor is black.  The police is 54% black.  I can't find the stats on the racial make-up of the politicians that run the city of Baltimore, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority is not black. The businesses are 35% black.  So who are they rioting and looting against in Baltimore?  And for what reason?

This is interesting. So this is more than just about race? Simply getting a black mayor does not get us where we want to be. So the question remains.... You have black politicians, black cops,,...,why do you still riot?

"You want to explore the emotions that drive rage and anger, and you mention hopelessness."

What would you explore?

They already know it's wrong.

They know its counter productive.

They know it makes things worse.

Edited August 17, 2015 by lazarus

[lazarus]

"It wasn't just me who was asking what changes Laz and the protesters/rioters/looters would like to see, but there has been none offered."

Gerry, There are many things that I talk about with black youth. Feelings it just a part of it. I'm really challenging YOU to think critically. The answers are there if you can move past the cynicism.

[lazarus]

If you looked up "Victim Mentality" everything that Laz said is in there. But I say it and suddenly I'm not listening? I'm not being trite when I say it, it is an actual thing, look it up.

The Racist and Ignorant Underpinnings of the Victim Mentality Argument

It’s a common argument, made by those who would rather ignore or finesse the problem of racism in America. If you can’t argue the facts, never fear, just suggest that certain facts are too dangerous to be spoken. The possibility that persons of color might adopt a victim mentality once they learn the extent of racism, means we simply have to move on, and tell those who are, as a matter of fact, often the victims of injustice not to dwell on their experiences too much, lest their commitment to self-help be vitiated.

That such an argument as this is fundamentally racist should be obvious. First, it presumes that persons of color are too stupid to already know what it is they’re experiencing. Those who bemoan the so-called victim mindset appear to believe that no one would think about racism were it not for the constant presence of liberals and leftists raising the issue. Secondly, the argument supposes that black and brown folks are so weak-willed that if they really understood the obstacles in their way, they would crumble like pie crust.

http://www.timwise.org/2010/02/racism-and-the-myth-of-a-victim-mentality/

[LifeHiscost]

 it presumes that persons of color are too stupid to already know what it is they’re experiencing.

The same circumstances existed about the time Hitler was in power, exercised toward the Jews. It led to millions of murdered people in the name of Arianism. As a person of German descent, it was seen in America but the subject was never belabored since being white made it difficult to recognize in most occupations unless one's name was known.

Being white (as someone once said, pink) or of any race, only becomes problematic (no color is exempt of the characteristic) when you are either of small number of the wrong color, or you're in the majority of any color, with desires of covetousness for what the other colored people have. It's a world of equal opportunity for the selfish and powerful, the world we live in.

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one....Romans 3

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

 

 

[Gerr]

"It wasn't just me who was asking what changes Laz and the protesters/rioters/looters would like to see, but there has been none offered."

Gerry, There are many things that I talk about with black youth. Feelings it just a part of it. I'm really challenging YOU to think critically. The answers are there if you can move past the cynicism.

Help me think critically - what changes do you want to see?  What changes do you want to see?  What changes do you want to see?

[Gerr]

[Gerr]

Looks like hell will freeze before Laz will offer any solution for change.  Let me offer some specific areas to stimulate your critical thinking.  What changes do you have in mind in the area of:

1.  Education?  

2.  Politics?  

3.  Law enforcement?  

4.  Neighborhood crime?  

5.  AWOL fathers of out-of-wedlock kids?

6.  High unemployment?

7.  The inordinately high murder rate of black young men by other blacks?

8.  High dependency on welfare?

[Aliensanctuary]

Cops' Lives Matter

[phkrause]

Actually according to Jesus, ALL LIVES Matter!! Period!!

[lazarus]

Cops' Lives Matter

Firefighters' Lives Matter